• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

Is there a "gap" in the 70 weeks of Daniel 9"


  • Total voters
    63

Vicky gould

Shekinah
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2019
655
238
77
North west
✟91,956.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

What was fulfilled was the command to rebuild the sacrifice of our Passover Lamb Jesus Christ
the only things fulfilled are the decree to rebuild the Messiah’s coming and his becoming our Passover Lamb.
 
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟916,165.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
the only things fulfilled are the decree to rebuild the Messiah’s coming and his becoming our Passover Lamb.

Are you saying the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is quoted word for word in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, was not fulfilled by Christ during the first century?

.
 
Upvote 0

Vicky gould

Shekinah
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2019
655
238
77
North west
✟91,956.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Are you saying the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is quoted word for word in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, was not fulfilled by Christ during the first century?

.
No what is being spoken of as new is not new as in something that had not been before it was new in the sense of the covenant with Abram being further expoundedon. Hebrews is retelling of Israel’s history and how it was not bait and switch on God’s part. Yeshua was able to be seen in shadow form with the offering of Isaac. The angel on the cross was another and on and on. Satan deceived Adam and Eve getting them to forsake Grace for Law, the knowledge of good and evil. The Lord Jesus, the Good Shepherd came seeking His Lost sheep. When He called His sheep heard His voice and came to Him. Then He sacrificed the unidentified animal which most surely was a lamb. By the time the Garden of Eden was closed Adam and Eve had been shown the first Passover. Cain’s rebellion was rejection of the Lamb of God. They knew when to offer, where to offer and what to offer, the Lamb. These things were seen through a glass darkly hence all the prophesy of the coming Lamb
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,020
✟843,047.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
No what is being spoken of as new is not new

You've said that it's not new.

Jesus disagrees:

Matthew 26
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Who's right?
 
Upvote 0

Vicky gould

Shekinah
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2019
655
238
77
North west
✟91,956.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
 
Upvote 0

Vicky gould

Shekinah
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2019
655
238
77
North west
✟91,956.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I think my reply was truncated but okay. Let try and approach it from this direction. The New is not something that does not run from the beginning of Scripture. It is New as opposed to the Old not new in that it never was. The Lamb who was slain from before the world was created and it is that covenant that from the beginning of Scripture until a man at the Jordan River said behold The Lamb of God. That Lamb in the Garden of Eden was a shadow cast by the Light of this World and possibly was His first High Priest duty
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,020
✟843,047.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
It is New as opposed to the Old not new in that it never was.

The New Testament never was, and the Blood of the New Testament never was, until Christ came incarnate among us.

Is there Scripture that declares otherwise?
 
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟916,165.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No what is being spoken of as new is not new as in something that had not been before it was new in the sense of the covenant with Abram being further expoundedon.

It would not be like the Sinai Covenant.

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


The New Testament is a series of books about the New Covenant fulfilled by the blood of Christ at Calvary.

Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

.
 
Reactions: jgr
Upvote 0

Biblewriter

Senior Member
Site Supporter
May 15, 2005
11,935
1,498
Ocala, Florida
Visit site
✟554,225.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives

Thank you for causing me to actually go back and study the ancient history of teaching on the Antichrist. What a simple, two hour, computer search of the "Early Church Fathers" found was no less than amazing.

An evil end time individual that the writer called either "Antichrist" or "the Antichrist" was explicitly predicted by:

The writer of the so-called "Epistle of Barnabas"
Irenaeus
Tertullian
Commodianus
Origen
Hippolytus
Cyprian
Methodius
Lactantius
Clement (not Clement of Alexandria)
Nicodemus
John Chrysostom
Theodoret
Athanasius
Jerome
Cyril
Hilary of Poitiers
John of Damascus
Ambrose
Sulpitius Severus
Gregory the Great

Of these, the following explicitly linked this prediction to Daniel:
Irenaeus
Origen
Hippolytus
Augustin
Sulpitius Severus

And of these, the following explicitly mentioned Daniel 9:
Irenaeus
Hippolytus
Augustin
Sulpitius Severus

So forget this nonsense about this concept being "prophetic modernism." That is 100% pure, unadulterated, fiction. And as it was invented out of thin air with the purpose of attacking the truth, it is simply a lie. I have no idea who originated this lie. But it is still nothing but a boldfaced lie, regardless of who originated it.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: Vicky gould
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟916,165.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

And out of your entire list only 4 of them got Daniel 9 wrong.


The angel Gabriel appeared to Daniel to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
Daniel was reading from the Book of Jeremiah when the angel appeared.

Are we supposed to believe the angel Gabriel never mentioned the New Covenant in Daniel chapter 9?

Are we supposed to believe the covenant with the many in Daniel 9 is in no way related to the covenant with the many in Matthew 26:28?



Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner


We are still waiting to see what you have written in your books about the New Covenant.

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: jgr
Upvote 0

Biblewriter

Senior Member
Site Supporter
May 15, 2005
11,935
1,498
Ocala, Florida
Visit site
✟554,225.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
The question at the moment is not whether or not this interpretation is correct. It is only how far back this idea goes. And as the last twelve chapters of "Against Heresies," by Irenaeus, are the very oldest Christian commentary on Bible Prophecy (of any significant length) that has survived to the present day, And the "Commentary on Daniel" by Hippolytus is the very oldest surviving Christian commentary on scripture, this idea goes all the way back to the very beginning of the historical record in regard to the church's interpretation of the meaning of the prophecies in the Bible. And it continued to be widely held at least up to the fifth or sixth century.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Vicky gould said:
the only things fulfilled are the decree to rebuild the Messiah’s coming and his becoming our Passover Lamb.
Are you saying the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is quoted word for word in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, was not fulfilled by Christ during the first century?
.
You've said that it's not new.
Jesus disagrees:
Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Who's right?
The New Testament never was, and the Blood of the New Testament never was, until Christ came incarnate among us.

Is there Scripture that declares otherwise?
Vicky gould said:
It is New as opposed to the Old not new in that it never was.
The New Testament never was, and the Blood of the New Testament never was, until Christ came incarnate among us.

Is there Scripture that declares otherwise?
Great post.
Perhaps we can discuss that on this other thread.............

NEW Covenant or RENEWED Covenant--

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread
Matthew 24:3

Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us! when shall these be being?
and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and full-consummation<4930> of the Age? [Hebrews 8:8]
==================================================
Did Christ come to establish a brand New Covenant or to Renew for the House of Judah and House of Israel?
And is the Olivet Discourse and Revelation showing the consummation of the Old/New Covenant?
[The poll is set up where one can change their vote or vote on more than 1 option.]
Discuss..........
[Translation of Hebrews is taken from an interlinear and Greek texts]

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

H2319 chadash
from 2318; new:--fresh, new thing.
G2537. kainos of uncertain affinity; new (especially in freshness; while 3501 is properly so with respect to age:--new

Jeremiah 31:31
Behold! days, ones coming a declaration of Yahweh and I Cut/03772 karath with the house of Yisra'el and with the house of Y@huwdah a New<2319> Covenant
Hebrews 8:8

For faulting them He is saying 'behold! days are coming,' is saying Yahweh
'and I shall be consummating<4931> upon the house of Israel and upon the house of Judah a New<2537> Covenant

Jeremiah 31:32

'Not according to the Covenant that I cut with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt;
which My covenant they brake, although I was a husband unto them', saith Yahweh.
Hebrews 8:9
'Not according to the Covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day of My taking them by their hand, to bring them out of the land of Egypt --
because they did not remain in My covenant, and I did not regard them', saith Yahweh, --

Jeremiah 31:33
But this the Covenant which I shall be cutting with House-of Yisra'el after those days, declarations of Yahweh.
I-give My Law within them, and upon their heart I shall write it/her and I become to them for an Elohim and they, they shall become to Me for a people.
Hebrews 8:10
'That this the Covenant which I shall be Covenanting to the House of Israel after those days', is saying LORD
'Giving laws of Me into the minds of them, and upon hearts of them I shall be engraving them. And I shall to them into God and they shall be to Me into a People.'

13 in the to be saying `New<2537>,' He hath made Old<3822> the First.
The yet being aged<3822> and being obsolete, nigh of disappearance
=======================================
3822. palaioo from 3820; to make (passively, become) worn out, or declare obsolete:--decay, make (wax) old.
3820. palaios pal-ah-yos' from 3819; antique, i.e. not recent, worn out:--old.

Luke 5:
37 "And no one is casting young/neon <3501> wine into OLD<3820> skins, if yet no surely shall be ruined the young wine of the skins,
and it shall be being poured-out and its skin shall be perishing.
38 but young/neon <3501> wine into New<2537> skins is to be cast and both are preserved together.
39 and no one driking Old immediately is willing young,
for he is saying, 'for the the Old is kind/mellow'".
[Matthew 9:17/Mark 2:22]

Ezekiel 37:22
and I will make them one Nation in the land, on the Mountains of Israel; and one King shall be king over them all;
they shall no longer be two Nations,
nor shall they ever be divided into two Kingdoms again.

Matthew 26:28
"For this is My blood of the New<2537> Covenant<1242>, the about many being poured out into a remission of sins"


Brand New, Renewed or Fulfill



    • It is a renewal
      0 vote(s)
      0.0%
    • Christ fulfilled the OC
      0 vote(s)
      0.0%
    • *
      He consummated it on the Cross and in 70ad
      2 vote(s)
      33.3%
    • All of the above
      0 vote(s)
      0.0%
=============================
New Covenant of Jeremiah 31 Hebrews 8
Jan 3, 2009


 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Vicky gould

Shekinah
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2019
655
238
77
North west
✟91,956.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Great post thanks for the polls great idea. Will be checking into the thread you were so kind to direct us too.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Hello BAB. You have brought up the "2 Peoples of God doctrine" so many times, I decided to see if there was a thread on CF. And behold!

Two-peoples-and-two-meanings theology

Now back to the topic at hand................

Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?
 
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟916,165.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

The thread is about a "gap" in the 70 weeks of Daniel 9.

Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews for about 7 years before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles.

This was the 70th week of Daniel, during the first century.

Where is there a "gap" found in the New Covenant scripture above?


.
 
Reactions: jgr
Upvote 0

Vicky gould

Shekinah
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2019
655
238
77
North west
✟91,956.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I may have missed all that was to happen with this fulfillment such as the Millennial Reign, Israel having stopped Transgressing and the other things promised that have not come to be. In the middle of that seven year period where did The Lord break the covenant? The Lord has never broken any covenant He enters into.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,550
28,531
74
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,300.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
I will state with what I found just doing a google search for "gap in daniel 70 weeks.
This commentary by Thomas Ice came up:

Why a Gap in Daniel's 70 Weeks
==================================
Some commentaries from a favorite site of mine
I would like to critique all of these commentaries some time in the future, but for now, I will let the members here peruse them and perhaps get their views.......


Daniel's Seventy Weeks


The Amillennial Preterism of Clement of Alexandria [A.D. 162]

Clement did hold to a future advent of Christ, and like many throughout history, supposed that it would be within his own lifetime. Thus, while Dispensationalists like Thomas Ice use the “immanence” argument to support a “pre-trib” rapture, the only real conclusion that we can draw from this statement is that Clement was wrong. Continue reading

Augustine: Letters on Matthew 24 and “The End of the World” (400-430)

I think that the one about the weeks of Daniel in particular should be understood in terms of time that is already past. He was correct to tell the Jews that the times were completed, because their times came to an end thirty-five or forty years after he preached. Continue reading

Karl August Auberlen Study Archive

.Christ Himself represents the destruction of Jerusalem as His Messianic coming Continue reading

John Evans: The 1,290 and 1,335 Days of Daniel 12 (2004)

The factional fighting among Zealot groups that occurred in the early months of 70 turned the Temple into a battleground where genuine worshipers risked being killed if they entered the grounds. The fighting made a mockery of the religion that the combatants supposedly embraced. By any reasonable standard, it constituted an abomination against the Jewish faith. Continue reading
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,020
✟843,047.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married

Of course.

How many of them pre-dated the Reformation?

How many would have recognized antichrist, as did the Reformers, once the Reformation era had dawned?

The answers are self-evident.

By the end of the Reformation, there was only one individual of significance espousing a futurized dispensationalized antichrist.

He wasn't a Reformer.

He was a Roman Catholic Jesuit named Francisco Ribera, the veritable godfather of dispensational futurism.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Vicky gould

Shekinah
Site Supporter
Aug 21, 2019
655
238
77
North west
✟91,956.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Okay here we go.

The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and yet will come up out of the Abyss and go to its destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because it once was, now is not, and yet will come. Re. 17: 8 this my friends is anti- Christ as Jesus Christ taught about him. anyi- Christ is counterfeiting the Christ who we are told was, is and will be again. Anti-Christ was in the world Garden of Eden and numerous other times including tempting the Lord. Anti- Christ is not now in the world because he is being held in the passage way to the lake of fire. The abyss seems to be a prison where unbreakable chains hold him until the end. anti-Christ we are told will be again in the world. The Lord was in the world, is in the world because of omnipresence and will be in the world again physically, at His return where He defeats anti-Christ and the false prophet who then are thrown into the lake of fire. when was it that anti-Christ made this return? Who was the anti- Christ and when was he defeated by the Lord. So much more is said about these events it is hard to miss their teaching. No offense I have been tagged error filled futurist. yippie. So be it, I refuse to make the prophets and their prophecies yesterdays news. Sorry
 
Reactions: keras
Upvote 0

Biblewriter

Senior Member
Site Supporter
May 15, 2005
11,935
1,498
Ocala, Florida
Visit site
✟554,225.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
We have been around and around on this before. And I have presented CONCLUSIVE PROOF that what you are saying here is simply not true. You have seen this proof. Yet you continue to spew your disinformation.
 
Reactions: Vicky gould
Upvote 0