• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Where is God's free will?

alexiscurious

Newbie
Jul 13, 2014
367
3
✟23,040.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Why does God feel the need to give humanity the choice to love him or hate him (free will) when he can't even choose for himself whether or not he loves us?

If anything, his love is the most forced and robotic love there is. If his nature is eternal and unchanging, then all he can ever do is love. Why couldn't we as humans, made in the image of this same God, do the same?

If he is perfectly content with his robotic love towards us, why was he so much against us having this same type of love towards him?
 

nonaeroterraqueous

Nonexistent Member
Aug 16, 2014
2,915
2,726
✟196,517.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Why does God feel the need to give humanity the choice to love him or hate him (free will) when he can't even choose for himself whether or not he loves us?

You know you're asking this in the Reformed forum? I see no reason why you expect us to believe in human free will or God's universal ("robotic") love. I don't mean to beg the question, but it sounds like you don't understand what we believe at all.
 
Upvote 0

JM

Confessional Free Catholic
Site Supporter
Jun 26, 2004
17,480
3,740
Canada
✟884,512.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
Hey Al,

You asked in the right forum. The Bible denies libertarian freewill but clearly teaches mankind is free to choose according to their nature. Think of it as free with limits, our sin nature limits our ability to choose....hope that helps.

I could give a better answer tomorrow when I fire up the ol' desktop.

JM
 
Upvote 0

nonaeroterraqueous

Nonexistent Member
Aug 16, 2014
2,915
2,726
✟196,517.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Because I saw that he was online last night but didn't pay us another visit, I took the liberty of transferring a couple of his quotes over here from the other thread:

So how can you all tell me with certainty that God will always love me if you have just told me he has the free will to opt out at any time?


He doesn't choose to love. It has forever been a part of him and his nature. He is an eternal unchanging being remember? So you are 100% incorrect when you say he has the choice to opt out of loving us.

Okay, Alex. God created the universe and everything in it. That includes space, itself, and that includes the entire timeline. Because God had to exist before the universe in order to create it, and because an infinite God cannot be contained by a finite universe, we are not being unreasonable in concluding that God is not boxed-in by this universe, and that includes our timeline, as well. We hold that God is omniscient. He knows what you are and what you ultimately will become. We hold that God is eternal. He's been around long enough to have made up his mind very firmly about you. We hold that God is omnipotent. You with your finite means are not capable of circumventing his plans. We hold that God is a person. He is not some universal force that blindly holds all people in his love, equally and unreasonably.

Put this all together, and you have a picture that differs somewhat from what you might be used to from other Christians. Because God knows exactly what the end result will be, even before you ever existed, there's really no reason to expect him to change from loving you absolutely, today, and switch to the other extreme and hate your guts tomorrow, if you should die in your sleep, tonight. It doesn't work like that. One other perspective that other Christians are presenting you with, that we don't hold, is the idea that God waits in the sidelines, anxiously chewing his nails, waiting to see what you will choose. We don't hold that view. We believe in destiny. We know that God is omnipotent, that nothing is outside of his power, and we know that he is omniscient, and no one can outwit him. Put those two together, and there's a certain determinism to the matter. He's not waiting to see what you will do. You won't even come to faith in him unless he ordains it.
 
Upvote 0

BryanW92

Hey look, it's a squirrel!
May 11, 2012
3,571
759
NE Florida
✟30,371.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
If anything, his love is the most forced and robotic love there is. If his nature is eternal and unchanging, then all he can ever do is love. Why couldn't we as humans, made in the image of this same God, do the same?

If he is perfectly content with his robotic love towards us, why was he so much against us having this same type of love towards him?

We were made in his image, but then corrupted by sin. After than, all copies have carried the same flaw. Imagine a beautiful nature scene (God) that is copied in a painting by the greatest artist ever. Then fold that painting so there is a crease down the middle. Then, spend next couple thousand years photographing that painting and other photographs of the painting. There was no crease in the original nature scene, but every image of it since then has shown the crease.
 
Upvote 0