Where did the Baptists come from?

[ShyBoy]

I've heard different storys about this question:

Are they a group of Christians that separated from the Catholic Church?

Are they a group of Christians that separated from other Protestant Churches such as the Anglican and Lutheran Church?

Or are they historical sucessors of John the Baptist?

Thanks.

ShyBoy

 

[~WildRoseCowgirl~]

As far as I know we are a church that seperated from the two main churches that were there in that period of time. The protestants and the catholics. I personally don't think the church came from John the baptist.

 

[seebs]

Well, you see, when a Momma Baptist and a Poppa Baptist love each other very much...

 

[Knight]

Well, you see, when a Momma Baptist and a Poppa Baptist love each other very much...

Funny, I thought most Baptists were hatched....



Just kidding, guys....

 

[stray bullet]

Or are they historical sucessors of John the Baptist?

ShyBoy

I've heard that 'theory' too, I would honestly love to see the supposed lineage I've heard people claim exists.

 

[CrystalBrooke]

i dont think our founder was John the Baptist..he was only called that bc he Baptised ppl..wasn't he? anyways i think we broke from the Protestant church since in an earlier thread, i saw that most of us (baptists) dont like to be referred to as Protestants, nor do we think of ourselves that way. but thats just my opinion.

 

[TwinCrier]

I've heard that 'theory' too, I would honestly love to see the supposed lineage I've heard people claim exists.

Look up "The Trail of Blood . . ." in your search engine.

 

[stray bullet]

i saw that most of us (baptists) dont like to be referred to as Protestants, nor do we think of ourselves that way. but thats just my opinion.

Well, unless one can prove their church/denomination did not come from breaking off with the Catholic Church or from another church/denomination that came from it, you are pretty much protestant IMO. I see it this way because Christians did not just spring up out of no where. They are either the descendents or converts of other Christians.... we are all the products of Jesus converting someone, converting someone else and so on.

That is why I am interested in the claims that the Baptists are not from the Catholic Church, but are either 'the true Church' referred in Matthew 16:18 or are from an earlier church not associated with the Catholics nor the lineage from Peter onwards.

 

[stray bullet]

Look up "The Trail of Blood . . ." in your search engine.

Heard of that, I'll check it out I've read histories that show the baptists are a product of protestantism, but never any factual or reasonable claims they came from anywhere else.

 

[SumTinWong]

Well, unless one can prove their church/denomination did not come from breaking off with the Catholic Church or from another church/denomination that came from it, you are pretty much protestant IMO. I see it this way because Christians did not just spring up out of no where. They are either the descendents or converts of other Christians.... we are all the products of Jesus converting someone, converting someone else and so on.

Okay in your opinion. Let me set the record straight in my opinion. In order to be protestant you would have to be given the choice of one or the other. Catholic or not. When I came to God on my knees begging for forgiveness I was not making a choice between Catholic and Baptist. When I went to a Baptist church for the first time I was not making a choice between Catholic and Baptist. When I joined the church, no where in my classes did it say I had to choose between the Catholics and the baptists.

In order for me to protest (or be protestant) I would have to be offered a choice. I wasn't. In fact it wasn't until after I was a Christian for a time being that I even thought of the Catholic church.

The early fathers of the protestant movement were in fact protesting the Catholic church, so in that regard they earned their title. But today I am not protesting the Catholic Church, I am just a Christian that belongs to a Baptist church. No do i hold to their teachings on the Bible and such? For the most part yes. I will not say that I hold the same opinions as Martin Luther did when talking of Jews and such, but the tenant that the Bible is my final authority is one that I believe in. If that goes against what the Catholic church believes then I guess I am a passive protestant.

That is why I am interested in the claims that the Baptists are not from the Catholic Church, but are either 'the true Church' referred in Matthew 16:18 or are from an earlier church not associated with the Catholics nor the lineage from Peter onwards.

Whoever is claiming this is an idiot. Of course we are from the Catholic church. To say otherwise is garbage. What Baptists are claiming, or should claim is that they as well as many of their bretheren from other denominations(I know, I know, the Catholics do not consider themselves a denomination), are in fact members of the catholic (Universal) church.

 

[stray bullet]

Okay in your opinion. Let me set the record straight in my opinion. In order to be protestant you would have to be given the choice of one or the other. Catholic or not. When I came to God on my knees begging for forgiveness I was not making a choice between Catholic and Baptist. When I went to a Baptist church for the first time I was not making a choice between Catholic and Baptist. When I joined the church, no where in my classes did it say I had to choose between the Catholics and the baptists.

Didn't mean to make it sound that way. What I mean is, if a protestant converted 1000 Christians, left and they made their own church, that church would be protestant, as it traces itself back through the protestant who came from splitting off the Catholic Church. I am simply looking at this from a historical and technical standpoint, not who is right or wrong. Since I am not a Baptist, I can not debate the matter here, only give my opinion for the reason of wanting to know more about the claim the Baptists are non-protestant. I'm basically just defining the group for the purpose of asking my question (are they not of that group?) was all

 

[BronxBriar]

Funny, I thought most Baptists were hatched....



Just kidding, guys....

As a convert does that mean I was grafted onto you?

 

[SumTinWong]

Didn't mean to make it sound that way. What I mean is, if a protestant converted 1000 Christians, left and they made their own church, that church would be protestant, as it traces itself back through the protestant who came from splitting off the Catholic Church. I am simply looking at this from a historical and technical standpoint, not who is right or wrong. Since I am not a Baptist, I can not debate the matter here, only give my opinion for the reason of wanting to know more about the claim the Baptists are non-protestant. I'm basically just defining the group for the purpose of asking my question (are they not of that group?) was all

Yeah I kinda knew what you meant, but it is just a matter that sticks in my craw. I love the Catholic people, and I believe more of them then not will be next to me (good Lord willing) in heaven. I don't protest them at all. In fact it if wasn't for all the grief that many Catholic people went through, we might not have the Bible.

The Baptist church came out of the Protestant/Reformation movement. Does that make me a protestant? I guess it technically does, but I aint protesting no one. Well I may protest that Michael Moore guy, or maybe even not being able to buy soda in glass bottles anymore...

 

[GreenEyedLady]

http://www.homestead.com/cbclibrary/files/TRAILOFBLOOD/TrailofBlood2.htm

Here is a chart I found.
I think it is pretty intresting.
Although I have not read the book, Trail of Blood, I have a hard time believing that there was NO independent churches before the reformation.
GEL

 

[seebs]

The argument for calling some churches "non-Protestant" isn't that they didn't at some level stem from the Protestant separations, but rather, that they don't necessarily accept the premises that Luther advanced as alternatives to the Catholic Church at the time. So, for instance, a group that doesn't accept Sola Scriptura is probably not meaningfully Protestant, even if we can trace their heritage back to a Protestant church.

 

[BAChristian]

Well I may protest that Michael Moore guy...

I'm with ya on that one dude...

 

[stray bullet]

Yeah I kinda knew what you meant, but it is just a matter that sticks in my craw. I love the Catholic people, and I believe more of them then not will be next to me (good Lord willing) in heaven.

Good thing is, there won't be any Baptists in Heaven, nor Catholics...such words will be meaningless to us then, I'm sure.

Although I'll probably still be teasing Baptists in Heaven

 

[stray bullet]

http://www.homestead.com/cbclibrary/files/TRAILOFBLOOD/TrailofBlood2.htm

Here is a chart I found.
I think it is pretty intresting.
Although I have not read the book, Trail of Blood, I have a hard time believing that there was NO independent churches before the reformation. Rome was powerful, but not THAT powerful.
GEL

The chart isn't showing, it seems to have been deleted.

This site seems a little fishy though- I've noticed that they referred to Matthew 16:18, "WILL BUILD MY CHURCH AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT.", but they purposely left out the part where Christ gives authority of that Church to Peter. Interestingly enough, Catholics trace their Popes all the way to Peter... odd they mentioned only part of that verse then...

They claim Baptists are linked by these earlier groups, but the site starts Catholicism when it was formally estabilished by name in the 4th Century, not by the successors, so that seems hypocritical.

I'm quite interested in seeing an honest historical account of this (especially a secular one), but all I have seen in my life is manipulated and cleverly twisted facts. It doesn't affect me either way, whether their claims are right, but I'd like to see something less biased and honest if possible. I'm a bit of a history nut, totally addicted to the history channel

 

[seebs]

Er, maybe we could have this be a little less about Catholics vs. Baptists, and a bit more on the recent history of Baptists, and why they are or aren't considered Protestant?

 

[stray bullet]

Er, maybe we could have this be a little less about Catholics vs. Baptists, and a bit more on the recent history of Baptists, and why they are or aren't considered Protestant?

Are you referring to me? I didn't mean to seem to preach. Why they are or aren't considered Protestant is what i am interested in, not which is the one true Church or whatever... as this is the Baptist forum and it isn't my place to debate.

It is just that I've heard these claims that the baptists were from an earlier church, or was one of the first churches. Yet, I must admit all the information I've gotten were simple claims or came for sources that really manipulated/distorted facts.

I don't mean they are all that way, but I am sincerely interested in this from a historical standpoint. I have zero interest in discussing who is really right or the right church, only understanding and looking into these claims.
If anyone is bothered by me or my questions, I'll gladly be quiet and leave, I'm just curious
I'll try googling some more and looking into some of the things mentioned thus far though...