Where did Sacred Tradtion originate from?

[MamaZ]

?????

 

[MrPolo]

It has always been. For example, the stories of Adam and Eve or the Flood, etc. would not have even been passed on without such Tradition.

 

[calluna]

It has always been. For example, the stories of Adam and Eve or the Flood, etc. would not have even been passed on without such Tradition.

Quite so. It is only a matter of time before Ignatius, Irenaeus and Clement are added to the Canon. Some administrative confusion, I think.

 

[Yarddog]

?????

Where did Sacred Tradition originate from? [/quote]

Simply put, God

Yarddog

 

[calluna]

Where did Sacred Tradition originate from?

Simply put, God

So Sacred Tradition is the word of God? Or what?

 

[Yarddog]

So Sacred Tradition is the word of God? Or what?

2 Thessalonians 2:
13 But we ought to give thanks to God for you always, brothers loved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in truth.
14 To this end he has (also) called you through our gospel to possess the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15 Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.
16 May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting encouragement and good hope through his grace,
17 encourage your hearts and strengthen them in every good deed and word.

The Apostles gave oral statements and wrote letters to the Church. The letters are few but the oral statements were plentiful. The Apostles did this to explain the truth about the scriptures and the Gospel of Jesus.

We understand the oral statements by seeing what the early christains did and wrote. Those that have only the written, have only part of the message.

God Bless,
Yarddog

 

[Anglian]

Dear MamaZ,

The Greek word for tradition is paradosis, which is literally something that is handed on from one person to another - as Yarddog explains. In Galatians 1:1, St. Paul explains where it comes from. It is 'not according to man', it comes, like St. Paul's teaching, from God.

A common Protestant misconception is that it is a series of teachings, it isn't; it is the living out of those teachings, which are the revelation of God.

The Orthodox Church holds four main sources of Christian tradition:
- the Holy Scriptures themselves, which did not fall from the skies at Pentecost, but were written within the tradition carried on from Christ Himself, who were inspired by God, and which were collected and canonised by the Church he founded.
- the Liturgy, which is the 'common work' of the people. In this public witness you may see what the Church believes: what we believe is what we pray. Our liturgies date from the early Church itself.
- the Councils. Many of these have met down the centuries, some are recognised as Ecumenical, some local. The Nicene Creed, produced at the first Ecumenical Council is recognised as the common expression of our Christian Faith.
- the Saints and the Fathers, whose lives and teachings offer edification.

These sources of tradition hold together as a unity, and we do not use one in isolation from the other. Every heretic who ever existed claimed to find support for his heresy in the Holy Scriptures. Taking one element in isolation is to end up with an unbalanced view.

Hope that helps.

Peace,

Anglian

 

[calluna]

15 Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter of ours.

Let's suppose, for just one brief moment, that Yarddog was present in Thessalonika when this letter was received, as he seems to claim. How do we know that what Yarddog was taught by Paul is what was reliably passed on as 'Tradition'? Maybe his memory slipped a little. It's even possible that Yarddog deliberately changed a few details in Paul's teaching and told the pope a made-up story. We hope not, but we can't discount the possibility.

 

[Anglian]

Let's suppose, for just one brief moment, that Yarddog was present in Thessalonika when this letter was received, as he seems to claim. How do we know that what Yarddog was taught by Paul is what was reliably passed on as 'Tradition'? Maybe his memory slipped a little. It's even possible that Yarddog deliberately changed a few details in Paul's teaching and told the pope a made-up story. We hope not, but we can't discount the possibility.

That would no doubt be why the Church teaches we should take no one part of Holy tradition in isolation from the others.

Peace,

Anglian

 

[calluna]

That would no doubt be why the Church teaches we should take no one part of Holy tradition in isolation from the others.

If any can see the merest glimmer of relevance in the above comment, let them explain. Otherwise, I will assume that there is no reason to treat it seriously.

 

[Anglian]

If any can see the merest glimmer of relevance in the above comment, let them explain. Otherwise, I will assume that there is no reason to treat it seriously.

If a doctrine is supported by all parts of Holy tradition it is a genuine tradition; otherwise not. There, not too hard for you, I hope?

Peace,

Anglian

 

[Thekla]

because Holy Tradition is "Kata holos" of the whole (wholeness as in healed, made whole, in Christ) catholic means healed, healthy -- and this comes only from our true physician, Christ. Any part that does manifest the spirit and ethos of "the whole/all of it" is either misinterpreted or not of it.

 

[calluna]

because Holy Tradition

That is begging the question. As ever, 'Tradition' responses are pure illusion.

Now that Peter's sword has been confiscated by grown adults, 'Tradition' is left without defense.

 

[Anglian]

That is begging the question. As ever, 'Tradition' responses are pure illusion.

Now that Peter's sword has been confiscated by grown adults, 'Tradition' is left without defense.

To quote a recent poster:

If any can see the merest glimmer of relevance in the above comment, let them explain. Otherwise, I will assume that there is no reason to treat it seriously.

Peace,

Anglian

 

[Thekla]

That is begging the question. As ever, 'Tradition' responses are pure illusion.

Now that Peter's sword has been confiscated by grown adults, 'Tradition' is left without defense.

Holy Tradition includes the Bible

 

[Yarddog]

Let's suppose, for just one brief moment, that Yarddog was present in Thessalonika when this letter was received, as he seems to claim.

Again I must ask of someone on this forum, does your ability to discern scripture resemble your ability to discern my writing? If so, you have no ability to discern. May I ask how you ascertained that I seem to claim anything of the sort.
I give you the writngs of the Apostles Paul and that is the best you can reply.

How do we know that what Yarddog was taught by Paul is what was reliably passed on as 'Tradition'?

Are you saying that the the Apostles failed to teach the early christians properly? All of the giving of the Holy Spirit is false?
Paul says in Romans 1:
1 Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God,
2 which he promised previously through his prophets in the holy scriptures,
3 the gospel about his Son, descended from David according to the flesh,
4 but established as Son of God in power according to the spirit of holiness through resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord.
5 Through him we have received the grace of apostleship, to bring about the obedience of faith, for the sake of his name, among all the Gentiles,
6 among whom are you also, who are called to belong to Jesus Christ;
7 to all the beloved of God in Rome, called to be holy. Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
8 First, I give thanks to my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is heralded throughout the world.

Do you think that Paul's preaching was so poor that the Church at Rome failed just after Paul died? How many years did Paul spend in Rome? How much of it is written down?

Romans 16:
25 Now to him who can strengthen you, according to my gospel and the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret for long ages
26 but now manifested through the prophetic writings and, according to the command of the eternal God, made known to all nations to bring about the obedience of faith,
27 to the only wise God, through Jesus Christ be glory forever and ever. Amen

Do you believe that Paul failed?

Yarddog

 

[Anglian]

Dear Thekla,

Posts 7 and 12 define, as best we can, the answer to the OP. What St. Peter's sword has to do with the Orthodox Church, who knows, and who cares?
Peace,

Anglian

 

[Thekla]

prove the absence of Homosexual marriage in Christianity using the Bible alone, and take this to the CF "Homosexuality debate" forum in CF. having kept only one part of Holy Tradition (the Bible) you cannot rely on the Canons of the Church the lived examples of the Saints the Praxis of the Church see how far you get in a court of Law using the Bible alone

 

[Anglian]

Dear Thekla,

As we both know, the Church sees Scripture as inspired and authoritative Holy Tradition.

In Mark 7:6-16, Our Lord warned against holding to the 'tradition of men'.
In Colossians 2:8, St. Paul also warns about the dangers of listening to the 'traditions of men'.

By contrast, in 2 Thess. 2:15, St. Paul advises us to 'stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle'; it is this Apostolic tradition which is the foundation of the Church. St. Paul advises us in 2 Thess: 3:6 to 'withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us.' No sign of Sola Scriptura or other man made traditions here.

It was on the basis of Holy Tradition, as outlined in post 7, that the canon of Scripture itself was established; nowhere in the NT does it say what is and is not Scripture.

We are one with what the Lord says in Jeremiah 6:16: 'Stand in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; then you will find rest for your souls.'

Two kinds of tradition: that of man; that of God. It is to the latter the Orthodox Church has been, is, and will ever be committed.

Peace,

Anglian

 

[calluna]

Again I must ask of someone on this forum, does your ability to discern scripture resemble your ability to discern my writing? If so, you have no ability to discern. May I ask how you ascertained that I seem to claim anything of the sort.

So are saying that you don't have a clue what Paul said to the Thessalonians? Because, if you are, quoting the command to the Thessalonians is as useful as posting your shopping list. It's as clever as saying that you have to go and collect Paul's cloak. Let's be sensible.

'Where did Sacred Tradition originate from?'

'Simply put, God'

So Sacred Tradition is the word of God? Or what?