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I believe both of those examples are matters of constant magisterium, and not the extraordinary magisterium.
They are not extraordinary dogmatic definitions, but such definitive binding confirmations are still considered an infallible act by the Pontiff. The infallibility willed by God for the entire Church is what the Pope himself receives.
I want to say that I disagree, but maybe I just don't understand what you are saying. Can you elaborate?
Specifically, how is that something which is already infallible by way of the constant magisterium, more infallible due to the pope doing something with that info?
AD, he is infallible because he is teaching us what has already been taught with out error.
he does not make up new stuff to teach us and he can not be wrong... he is merely handing us the faith that Christ left to His apostles 2000 years ago.
He protects that, already given to us faith, from error, he transmits it properly to the Church in each age and he enforces it when he has to and in rare cases he will define it better if it needs to be.
The unique gift his office has is when he is speaking on matters of faith and morals, what Christ already gave to us, he will be prevented from teaching us a error pertaining to it. This has actually happened in history a few times where a pope was stopped miraculous from teaching against the faith.
There are three modes of infallibility possessed by the Church: (1) papal infallibility; (2) conciliar infallibility; (3) ordinary and universal magisterium.
There are two levels of infallibility: (A) de fide credenda; (B) de fide tenenda. In English, truths in category (A) must be believed with divine and Catholic faith, while truths in category (B) must be held with firm and definitive assent.
Pope Pius XII's Munificentissimus Deus is the most recent teaching belonging to (1A). Canonization of saints is an example of the types of teachings in (1B). Ordinatio Sacerdotalis belongs to (3B).
Wikipedia has an article that contains excerpts from a large number of Church documents on evolution, if this is something that you are particularly interested in following up on:Well if we believe the majority of the evolution crowd then there was not a literal Adam and Eve.
Unfortunately, this idea, if it's the truth forces our faith to crumble.
Agreed?
See I just have an issue with being told, you have to read this and believe it. I can't just do that.
Well it is either that or hell. Which do you prefer? alright just kidding
Truth is, many folks have difficulties with that, and that is why the doctrines provide explanations for them. We aren't simply (and should never be ...) given instruction like "believe this statement or go to hell". That may be something a poor catechist could have said, but in my reading of papal and conciliar documents, the rational behind the teachings is always provided. Even then, it isn't reasonable to expect a sudden agreement out of anyone just for having read it. We all have to struggle and work these things out in our own minds. This is normal, and some call it part of the on-going process of conversion.
So I'm not a horrible Catholic if I just don't agree with it.... and maybe just can never agree with it in my heart for whatever reason? I am seriously not even trying to tell God no I don't believe this, I just seriously don't understand it and I can't agree with it.
And geo I know you were kidding, but when I see statements around OBOB that are like "do this Catholic thing or go to hell" that really upsets me. I'm a sinner, I won't ever deny that, but when it comes to simply not being able to agree with my Church's faith, it hurts and it makes me sad and depressed. I don't like being told that I'm sinning and not understanding why I'm sinning.
Maybe it's harder since I'm not a cradle Catholic. My boyfriend at the time when I converted was one and he just accepted everything--- I can't do that and it upset me when he couldn't properly explain something to me about the faith. So yes I guess I'm still going through my conversion, even though I'm baptized and confirmed.
Catholic faith is alot harder than most other Christian faiths.
Maybe it's harder since I'm not a cradle Catholic. My boyfriend at the time when I converted was one and he just accepted everything--- I can't do that and it upset me when he couldn't properly explain something to me about the faith. So yes I guess I'm still going through my conversion, even though I'm baptized and confirmed.
yes, that is correct.
Just curious now after that comment(not to start a rabbit trail) being that the Catholic church makes Saints from the saints..Have any saints in the past that were made Saints found out to not be who they portrayed to be. ie things were found out about them..pax..Kim
no, i don't think so.Just curious now after that comment(not to start a rabbit trail) being that the Catholic church makes Saints from the saints..Have any saints in the past that were made Saints found out to not be who they portrayed to be. ie things were found out about them..pax..Kim
say what?Well the appropriate way to describe someone being declared a Saint, is that the catholic church is only recognizing what has happened. It isn't 'making them a Saint'. There are tons of Saints in Heaven which aren't recognized since there never was a 'cause' for it.
That said, it has been speculated that if the pope were to err, and declare someone a Saint who isn't one, the power of the keys would be invoked, and that person would be freed into heaven -- That isn't doctrine, just some speculation, and it isn't my speculation either
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