When it comes to untruths, there were some doozies last night.

[FreeinChrist]

So the VP candidate debate was last night, and wow were there some claims that stood out!

Check it out:

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/02/nx-s1-5135675/jd-vance-tim-walz-vp-debate-fact-check

Health care​

VANCE: "I think you can make a really good argument that [Trump] salvaged Obamacare, which was doing disastrously until Donald Trump came about. ... Donald Trump could have destroyed the program — instead, he worked in a bipartisan way to ensure that Americans had access to affordable care."​

​

During his presidency, Trump undermined the Affordable Care Act in many ways — for instance, by slashing funding for advertising and free "navigators" who help people sign up for a health insurance plan on HealthCare.gov. And rather than deciding to "save" the ACA, he tried hard to get Congress to repeal it, and failed.​

Trump saved Obamacare??
Have to use this gif as it always makes me laugh:

No, it was John McCain who saved Obamacare from being repealed with his no vote - the thumb's down vote that was so dramatic. He knew there was no replacement at all.

I voted for him every time he was up for election and he justified that by refusing to vote yes on the repeal and by never being a stooge for Trump.



More on healthcare:

MODERATOR: "Senator, you have not yet explained how you would protect people with preexisting conditions or laid out that plan."​

​

JD VANCE: "Look, we currently have laws and regulations in place right now that protect people with preexisting conditions. We want to keep those regulations in place, but we also want to make the health insurance marketplace function a little bit better."​

​

Vance was asked about comments he's made recently, trying to fill in the details of Trump’s comments during the presidential debate that he had the “concepts of a plan” when it comes to replacing the Affordable Care Act. (The Harris-Walz campaign needled the Republican ticket ahead of the debate about not having anything clearer to say on health policy.)​

​

But when Vance refers to "laws and regulations in place" protecting people with preexisting conditions, those laws and regulations are the Affordable Care Act.​

Good grief J.D.!! The law that protects people with pre-existing conditions IS the Affordable Care Act! Repeal that popular law and there is no protection for preexisting conditions!

 

[Petros2015]

Have to use this gif as it always makes me laugh:

lol that's a good one

No, it was John McCain who saved Obamacare from being repealed with his no vote - the thumb's down vote that was so dramatic. He knew there was no replacement at all.

They would call him a RINO (Republican In Name Only) these days I'm sure.

On July 18, 2015, then-candidate Donald Trump said this about John McCain: “He’s not a war hero. He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren’t captured.”

On March 19, 2019, President Donald Trump offered this assessment of the late war hero and senator: “I was never a fan of John McCain and I never will be.”

I would call him a hero.

 

[FreeinChrist]

I am glad I wasn't drinking anything when Vance said this as I would have spit it out:

Fact-checking the VP debate between Vance and Walz on abortion, immigration and Iran

Vance and Walz acknowledged occasional agreement with each other on policy points and respectfully addressed one another throughout the debate. But they also blamed each other’s running mates for problems facing the U.S., including immigration and inflation.

www.pbs.org

Vance: Donald Trump “peacefully gave over power on January the 20th as we have done for 250 years in this country.”​

Mostly False.​

​

Trump left the White House on Jan. 20, 2021, and another president was sworn in that day. But Vance’s statement ignores Trump’s words and actions that led up to the violent Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol.​

​

In December 2020, Trump repeatedly encouraged his supporters to fight the election results and gather at the Capitol. On Jan. 6, 2021, Trump used his “Save America” rally to repeat inaccurate claims that he won the election. He continually urged the crowd to “fight” before inviting them to march to the Capitol.​

​

WATCH: Vance won’t say Trump lost 2020 election. Walz says that’s a ‘damning non-answer’​

​

“Our country has had enough,” Trump said. “We will not take it anymore and that’s what this is all about. To use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with, we will stop the steal.”​

​

The crowd later chanted: “Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump!”​

​

​

Trump left on January 20th without ever conceding the election to Biden. He would not go to the Inaugeration like previous presidents have done. First Lady Melania Trump did not invite Jill Biden to the White House for a tour of the private living quarters.

Trump actually hindered Biden during the transition time:

Trump Rebuffs Biden Transition Team, Setting Off Virus and National Security Risks (Published 2020)

Some Senate Republicans said the president-elect should be given intelligence briefings, and transition team members found workarounds for the president’s stonewalling.

www.nytimes.com

President Trump’s refusal to allow President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr. and his transition staff access to government offices, secure communications and classified briefings prompted growing warnings on Thursday, including from Republicans, that keeping Mr. Biden in the dark potentially endangers the country.​

​

On Capitol Hill, several Senate Republicans insisted that Mr. Biden should at least be given access to the President’s Daily Brief, the compendium of the nation’s most closely guarded intelligence secrets and assessments of threats like terrorist plots and cyberattack vulnerabilities. Their call amounted to an acknowledgment that Mr. Biden would be declared the victor in the election.​

​

“I don’t think they need to know everything,” Senator Roy Blunt of Missouri, a member of the Senate Republican leadership, said of Mr. Biden’s advisers. “I think they do need to know some things, and national security would be one of them.”​

“President-elect Biden should be receiving intelligence briefings right now — that is really important,” said Senator Susan Collins, Republican of Maine, a member of the Intelligence Committee and one of the few Senate Republicans to publicly acknowledge Mr. Biden’s victory. “It’s probably the most important part of the transition.”​

​

Giving Mr. Biden and his top aides access to the daily briefing, as Mr. Trump got right after his election four years ago, would address only a fraction of the problem. Mr. Biden will confront an array of complex dilemmas: bruised relationships with foreign allies, a weak economy and a sluggish recovery, perhaps the most high-risk period yet of the coronavirus and a need to distribute a vaccine to 330 million Americans.​

Vance was really rewriting history with that answer.

 

[Vambram]

Would it be off topic in this thread to show the untrue stuff which Tim Walz said in that debate?

 

[FreeinChrist]

Would it be off topic in this thread to show the untrue stuff which Tim Walz said in that debate?

You can certainly start a thread on that if you wish.

 

[Vambram]

You can certainly start a thread on that if you wish.

I figured that y'all would have preferred another thread instead of using this thread to compare Vance vs Walz from their debate.

 

[probinson]

Actually, the title of this thread indicates that it's talking about untruths in the Vice Presidential debate, so it's absolutely in line with the the title of the thread to discuss ALL the untruths that were told.

For example, Walz said that a Trump/Vance administration would require "a registry of pregnancies", but of course that's absolutely not true. Notwithstanding that he was referring to Project 2025, which the Trump campaign has disavowed, Project 2025 calls for no such thing.

 

[probinson]

Vance: Donald Trump “peacefully gave over power on January the 20th as we have done for 250 years in this country.”​

Mostly False.​

​

Trump left the White House on Jan. 20, 2021, and another president was sworn in that day. But Vance’s statement ignores Trump’s words and actions that led up to the violent Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol.​

Seems like fact-checking the fact-checkers is apropos here. It is indeed true that power was peacefully transferred on January 20. Heck, even the fact-checkers acknowledge that "Trump left the White House on Jan. 20, 2021 and another president was sworn in that day." And thus, a peaceful transfer of power ensued, as it has for 250 years.

Walz also falsely claimed in the debate that "several" police officers later died from being beaten with flags on January 6, a whopper of a lie that I've not seen any of these self-anointed media "fact-checkers" address. This is a great example of how the "fact-checkers" aren't all that objective in their analyses.

 

[ralliann]

I am glad I wasn't drinking anything when Vance said this as I would have spit it out:

Fact-checking the VP debate between Vance and Walz on abortion, immigration and Iran

Vance and Walz acknowledged occasional agreement with each other on policy points and respectfully addressed one another throughout the debate. But they also blamed each other’s running mates for problems facing the U.S., including immigration and inflation.

www.pbs.org

Vance: Donald Trump “peacefully gave over power on January the 20th as we have done for 250 years in this country.”​

Mostly False.​

​

Trump left the White House on Jan. 20, 2021, and another president was sworn in that day.​

Completly true.

But Vance’s statement ignores Trump’s words and actions that led up to the violent Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol.​

Because his statement was about Jan 20th, transfer of power. As has been done for over 200 years.

​

In December 2020, Trump repeatedly encouraged his supporters to fight the election results and gather at the Capitol. On Jan. 6, 2021, Trump used his “Save America” rally to repeat inaccurate claims that he won the election. He continually urged the crowd to “fight” before inviting them to march to the Capitol.​

This is distortion. He told them to go peacefully

​

WATCH: Vance won’t say Trump lost 2020 election. Walz says that’s a ‘damning non-answer’​

​

“Our country has had enough,” Trump said. “We will not take it anymore and that’s what this is all about. To use a favorite term that all of you people really came up with, we will stop the steal.”​

​

The crowd later chanted: “Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump!”​

​

​

Trump left on January 20th without ever conceding the election to Biden.

So what, he still left peacefully as has been done for over 200 years.
i

Vance was really rewriting history with that answer.

No, he spoke of Jan 20th accurately....

 

[FreeinChrist]

I figured that y'all would have preferred another thread instead of using this thread to compare Vance vs Walz from their debate.

There is plenty to discuss about the debate so more than one thread will probably happen.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Completly true.

Nope. Trump was the first president in 150 years to not attend his successor's Inaugeration. The events on Jan. 6th were unprecedented as we were not in a civil war. The first time a confederate flag entered the Capitol was 1/6/21. Not even in the civil war did that flag enter the Capital.

Ascertainment (recognition by the GSA gives to the apparent winner) was delayed by 3 weeks which caused funds to be withheld for Biden to set up the transition. They did not have access to federal agencies in this time in order to determined hiring needs. Even after ascetainment, Biden's team did not receive all the crucial information needed regarding national security, Covid-19 trends, vaccine development and the budget, and more.

And it was just petty not to have the tour of the living quarters. The Obamas did that for Donald and Melania.

Because his statement was about Jan 20th, transfer of power. As has been done for over 200 years.

This is distortion. He told them to go peacefully

So what, he still left peacefully as has been done for over 200 years.
i

No, he spoke of Jan 20th accurately....

Actually he complained and raised cain for 2 months prior to Jan. 6th about being robbed, and told them to fight like hell. In fact, he said they needed to fight or there wouldn't be a democracy anymore.
And:

Dissecting Trump’s “Peacefully and Patriotically” Defense of the January 6th Attack

An analysis of former President Trump's reference to "peacefully and patriotically" in his January 6th Ellipse speech - for the trial and court of public opinion.

www.justsecurity.org

The full weight of the evidence – first collected by the January 6th Select Committee and now Special Counsel Jack Smith’s office – tells a very different story. And it is a damning one for Trump’s defense. Indeed, the record includes strong evidence that Trump supported the use of violence on Jan. 6 and tried to use it to his political advantage to block the certification of the election. That is in the context in which the one reference to “peacefully and patriotically” in the Ellipse speech will be understood by the jury and should be understood by the American public.​

​

The January 6th Select Committee found that the words “peacefully and patriotically” were drafted by Trump’s speechwriters – not Trump. Those two words were also completely at odds with the rest of Trump’s highly inflammatory remarks, during which he retold multiple lies about the election and directed the crowd’s anger at Vice President Pence and lawmakers. While Trump uttered the word “peacefully” just one time during his speech, which lasted more than an hour, he used variations of the word “fight” 20 times. That was Trump’s authentic voice. Though Trump knew the assembled crowd was “angry,” he ad-libbed the word “fight” on approximately 18 occasions. Trump also personally added multiple incendiary lines, including this one:​

​

“We fight like Hell and if you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.”​

​

Footage obtained by Just Security showed the crowd’s immediate reaction to his incendiary words (the footage was used in the impeachment trial and by the select committee).....​

​

​

​

A recent report from ABC News provides additional details concerning what Special Counsel Jack Smith has learned about Trump’s behavior during the attack – including testimony concerning his reluctance to use the word “peaceful.” At 2:24 p.m., while the attack was well underway, Trump tweeted:​

​

Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!​

Trump himself authored this tweet, according to ABC News’s sources. Shortly after it was posted, White House Counsel Pat Cipollone and another lawyer confronted Trump’s social media guru, Dan Scavino, demanding to know why such an incendiary statement was posted on the president’s Twitter account. “I didn’t do it,” Scavino told the lawyers. After Trump’s advisors advised him the tweet was “not what we need,” Trump responded: “But it’s true.” And when Nick Luna, a presidential aide, informed Trump that Vice President Pence had to be moved to a secure location, Trump replied: “So what?”​

​

A 165 page court filing by Jack Smith was unsealed today that includes evidence not shared with the public before tody. It can be found here:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.258149/gov.uscourts.dcd.258149.252.0.pdf

 

[Vambram]

The Congressional January 6th committee was filled with politicians whom were heavily biased against Donald Trump. Meanwhile, Jack Smith is an incompetent attorney whose biases in favor of the Democratic Party. Therefore, nothing that they say about Donald Trump can be assumed to be true and trustworthy.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Another doozy but not as bad as the ones I already mentioned:

Fact checking VP debate claims from Walz and Vance's 2024 showdown

CBS News fact checked the biggest claims made by Tim Walz and JD Vance during the vice presidential debate.

www.cbsnews.com

False, needs context: Vance says Iran received over $100 billion in unfrozen assets thanks to Harris​

Vance: "Iran, which launched this attack, has received over $100 billion in unfrozen assets thanks to the Kamala Harris administration."​

​

Details: The Iran nuclear deal, known as JCPOA, the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, was negotiated in 2015, while Barack Obama was president, not during the Biden administration. Trump pulled the U.S. out of the deal in 2018. By September 2019, Iran was pulling away from the accord and beginning to work on ways to enrich uranium for nuclear reactors more quickly.​

​

The $100 billion figure mentioned by Vance refers to potential sanctions relief — the unfreezing of Iranian assets — if Iran completed key nuclear steps under the JCPOA. Because the deal fell apart, assets are currently frozen. Additionally, the White House archives cite the U.S. Treasury Department's estimate at a little over $50 billion.​

​

By Jui Sarwate and Dilcia Mercedes​

​

So note:

- the Iran nuclear deal was negoitiated by the Obama Administration in 2015
- Trump pulled out of the deal in 2018
- By 2019, Iran was pulling away from the accord.
- Since Iran did not complete the key nuclear steps of the deal, about $50 billion of those assets are frozen.


So Vance was wrong about WHO made the deal, and how much was released to Iran as it wasn't all at once and he ignored the fact that Trump is the one who pulled the US out of the deal. And now Iran is free to work on nuclear weapns.

Also, it was never "the Kamala Harris administration, as she was not president. It was the BIDEN/Harris administration. NOTE, neither Vance or Walz described what they alone will be doing, but what Trump and Harris would do if elected. As VP, Walz and Vance would be needing to support what Harris or Trump will be doing if elected.
Some folks need reminders about what they learned in high school civics.

 

[Vambram]

What JD Vance is correct about is that the Biden administration unfroze Iranian financial assets, lifted sanctions against Iran, and therefore allowed Iran to have the money needed to fund the radical Islamic extremists known as Hamas and Hezbollah as well as building up their military weapons and armaments. We all know the pure evil and violence which Hamas and the Hezbollah has done.

 

[FreeinChrist]

What JD Vance is correct about is that the Biden administration unfroze Iranian financial assets, lifted sanctions against Iran, and therefore allowed Iran to have the money needed to fund the radical Islamic extremists known as Hamas and Hezbollah.

No, it was the OBAMA administration that unfroze some Iranian financial assets. Trump pulled the US out of the deal and as Iran did not follow through on all the steps, about $50 billion remain frozen or are tied up in foreign debt..

Check the dates -
deal made - 2015
US pulled out - 2018
Biden inaugerated - 2021

Vance may have confused the Iran Nuclear Deal with an agreement between the Biden administration to release $6 billion of Iran's own money sitting in South Korea to be used for humanitarian causes and some Iranians detainees in the US in exchange for 5 hostages held in Iran. The funds remain frozen however because of Oct. 7, 2023 when Hamas attacked Israel. The prisoner exchange happened and those 5 Americans landed on US soil on Sept. 18th or 19th, 2023.

 

[Vambram]

Obama/Biden and then later on Biden/Harris allowed Iran to be more than wealthy enough to build up the Iranian proxies of Hamas and the Hezbollah. That's the bottom line.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Obama/Biden and then later on Biden/Harris allowed Iran to be more than wealthy enough to build up the Iranian proxies of Hamas and the Hezbollah. That's the bottom line.

Except that the $6 billion that to be released for the exchange of prisoners by Biden did not happen.. Provide proof that a "Harris administration" actually enriched Iran, or acknowledge it is not true.I know that flies in the face of the desired agenda but Vance was wrong.

Again, the Obama administration negoitiated a deal where Iran was stopping it's development of nuclear weapons which was working UNTIL Trump withdrew the US from the deal. Now Iran has it's nuclear program going.
The release of the $100 billion, which was Iran's money, was to be allowed IF the International Atomic Energy Agency verified that Iran had implemented nuclear-related measures under the agreement. It did not.

By Trump pulling the US out of the deal, the relations between the two nations got worse.
Please research the deal. Unless you can prove that "the Harris administration" caused the release of $100 billion, then it stays a lie told by Vance.

 

[Vambram]

Perhaps the $100 billion is an exaggeration. However what cannot be denied is that Iran became very rich during the Biden/Harris administration. What cannot factually be denied is that the Biden/Harris did nothing to prevent the evil regime of Iran to get very rich and that billions of dollars worth of weapons, ammunition, and aid was given by Iran to radical Islamic proxies (Hamas and Hezbollah) and Biden/Harris did nothing at all to prevent that from happening. Also, the Biden/Harris administration did nothing to prevent Iran from getting closer and closer to becoming a nuclear power.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Perhaps the $100 billion is an exaggeration. However what cannot be denied is that Iran became very rich during the Biden/Harris administration. What cannot factually be denied is that the Biden/Harris did nothing to prevent the evil regime of Iran to get very rich and that billions of dollars worth of weapons, ammunition, and aid was given by Iran to radical Islamic proxies (Hamas and Hezbollah) and Biden/Harris did nothing at all to prevent that from happening. Also, the Biden/Harris administration did nothing to prevent Iran from getting closer and closer to becoming a nuclear power.

It was flat out wrong. Not an exaggeration. Vance confused the $100 billion in reference to the 2015 Nuclear Deal negotiated by Obama with a $6 billion that was never released to Iran in 2023.

Percisely what was the US to do exactly to control Iran beyond the sanctions that ties up their money in foreign accounts? People act like the US is in control of every aspect of the every country in the world. Nope.

 

[Vambram]

It was flat out wrong. Not an exaggeration. Vance confused the $100 billion in reference to the 2015 Nuclear Deal negotiated by Obama with a $6 billion that was never released to Iran in 2023.

Percisely what was the US to do exactly to control Iran beyond the sanctions that ties up their money in foreign accounts? People act like the US is in control of every aspect of the every country in the world. Nope.

If the USA and the Biden/Harris administration had kept those financial sanctions on Iran, then Iran would not have been wealthy enough to give all those weapons and ammunition to Hamas and Hezbollah.