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When do you get a soul?

Jenny12358

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Not that I believe in the soul, but when is the exact moment you guys think a soul is created? Is it when a foetus gets feelings? Is it when it can think? Is it when an egg is fertilised; if so, am I walking around with tens of thousands of half-souls in my ovaries?

Also, do animals have souls? If not, then I think the soul cannot be based upon conciousness. By this I mean dogs have more mental capacities than a 3 minute old foetus, so what implications does this have for the soul's creation and nature?

I ask because it's relevant to abortions, but not because I want to hear anything about people's views on abortion, so please don't talk about that.

Thanks, Jenny
 
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SmileAndAHandshake

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Not sure about animals and souls :) I personally value my cat over most humans I know, so maybe I do think they have a soul :p Overall, it doesn't impact my spirituality one ounce, so it's not something I spend long hours pulling my hair out over, trying to figure out the "correct" answer.

As for the "when" of the human soul?

I believe we gain a soul strictly at birth, and not one second before.
 
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lawtonfogle

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30 days after conception for males, 60 days for females. Of so the doctrine of Creationism taught. (Yes words can have more than one meaning).
:ahem:

Did you just make that up... or is there somewhere that actually teaches that...
:mmh:
 
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keith99

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:ahem:

Did you just make that up... or is there somewhere that actually teaches that...
:mmh:

It is a real doctrine. Middle ages, pretty much the time when they argued over how many angels could dance on the head of a pin. I found the reference in something like 'The Dictionary of Christian and evengelical terms'. It was the second definition under Creatinism. I'm sure you can guess the first.
 
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ArgentBear

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If we accept the idea that life ends with brain death then it should stand to reason that life begins when the brain begins working or making recognizable brain waves, sometime around week 14 or 15.

And anyone who has loved and been loved back by a dog or a cat knows that animals do indeed have souls.
 
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Assyrian

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When do you get a soul?
"It doesn't happen all at once," said the Skin Horse. "You become. It takes a long time. That's why it doesn't happen often to people who break easily, or have sharp edges, or who have to be carefully kept. Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in the joints and very shabby. But these things don't matter at all, because once you are Real you can't be ugly, except to people who don't understand."

The Velveteen Rabbit by Margery Williams
 
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1whirlwind

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At conception. When "the angel departed from her" Mary rose and went to Elisabeth who was six months pregnant with John....


Luke 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
The soul/spirit of the babe in her womb recognized the soul/spirit of the babe in Mary's womb.
 
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quatona

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Not that I believe in the soul, but when is the exact moment you guys think a soul is created? Is it when a foetus gets feelings? Is it when it can think? Is it when an egg is fertilised; if so, am I walking around with tens of thousands of half-souls in my ovaries?
I don´t believe in souls, either, but if I were to accept the concept "soul" as meaningful and useful, I´d tend to think that it´s not like bodies acquire souls, but more like souls acquire bodies.
 
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Witchy Bee

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Well, this is an interesting question..

Because I believe in reincarnation, and don't really know what started it all. I will begin with what I think the soul is. I think the soul is basically just energy. It's the core of who a person is, not to be confused with things like their personality which of course is controlled by the brain, but spirit of person. It is the person. It's what connects them to the rest of the universe and allows them to both benefit and to receive punishment in accordance with the laws of karma.

When a person dies their soul, the essence of their being, returns to where it had come to be purified and await reincarnation. During the process is the time most think of as the afterlife. When the body enters a state in between existence and nothingness. The spirit resides wherever it is they think they would, heaven, summerland, etc. After a certain period of time, the soul is returned to a physical existence. Either as a human, animal, or something else.

As for animals, the same thing would apply. If humans can be reincarnated as animals, then I trust it would work the other way around.

Now, of course, this is just what I believe about the soul. I don''t think the soul ever dies. It is the soul that lives forever, not the person, or at least not the same person. I could go on for ages about this, but I won't. It is just what I believe to be the nature of the soul. I'm not saying I'm right, or that everyone else is wrong, this is just the most comforting thought to me to deal with the concept of death.
 
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Beanieboy

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Not that I believe in the soul, but when is the exact moment you guys think a soul is created? Is it when a foetus gets feelings? Is it when it can think? Is it when an egg is fertilised; if so, am I walking around with tens of thousands of half-souls in my ovaries?

Also, do animals have souls? If not, then I think the soul cannot be based upon conciousness. By this I mean dogs have more mental capacities than a 3 minute old foetus, so what implications does this have for the soul's creation and nature?

I ask because it's relevant to abortions, but not because I want to hear anything about people's views on abortion, so please don't talk about that.

Thanks, Jenny

That is a very good question.

However, I don't think I can give you a solid answer.
First of all, I can't even prove that we have souls.
Does a person with a genius IQ have a more developed soul than, say, someone with a severe case of Down's Syndrome?
Dolphins are as intelligent as humans, so do dolphins have souls, then, just because of their intelligence?

Personally, I believe that everything that is alive, from an insect to a person, has some version of a soul. I don't believe that one's pet dog, for example, is nothing more than instinct, because they have proven bravery, compassion, sorrow, and emotions that we associate with being "human", and proof of our soul.

When I was studying Buddhism, Buddhists believe that all life is sacred, and would sweep the sidewalk after a rain to avoid stepping on worms, for example. Those who ate meat would say a prayer of thanksgiving for the animal sacrificing its life so that they could live.

It sounds silly, but I practiced this for a short while, and while waiting for a bus, an inchworm and accidentally gotten lost, and instead, found my hand. I carried it to a safer grassy area. What followed was this: if I was able to care about the life of a small inchworm, I cared even more about other humans, and how I could help them for its own sake, because their life was sacred, to me, and to God.

I have noticed as well that those who see animals as things to control, dominate, hunt and eat, animals with no real emotion but only being low IQ robots running on instinct, people who refused to thank the animal for giving it life, or who enjoyed flushing a frog down the toilet for fun, tended to then transfer that lack of respect, lack of reverence, onto other people. They said what they wanted and didn't care who got hurt, took what they wanted, said they didn't need to share or refused to help anyone if it didn't benefit themselves.

I believe that it is very simplistic to say a 4 cell zygote is a person, but equally simplistic to say that it is not. When the soul enters is something that only God can answer, and we can only speculate.

However, the issue, especially when it comes to abortion, rarely is voiced by a teen experiencing pregnancy, or a husband trying to decide between the life of the baby or his wife, etc. It is usually shouted with large signs by people that don't talk to the women, don't have compassion for the women, or have any idea what it is like to be in that position. Rather, they hold up signs of condemnation to make themselves feel superior. These same people will later talk about how pregnant unwed mothers shouldn't have babies, how single mothers are stealing their money through welfare to feed her children, etc. Those who view a zygote/embryo as a "human being" often don't have a funeral if the baby is lost in the first month or two, sometimes even flushing it away.

There is also a strange tendency for those with such a position to want to execute people, caring more for the unborn than the born.

I have a radical view that I can in no way support.

I believe that all of us are connected, like cells of God, if you will. I'm unsure of my stand on reincarnation, but it would make sense that a soul would evolve from a lowly animal to a dog, to a person, and then evolve beyond that. I have ocassionally, during meditation, felt that I am also my father, my grandfather, and going all the way back to Adam.

Buddhism teaches that everyone that you meet was probably a close family member at one time, and when you start looking at the human race as the human family, you naturally care about their well being, and naturally give 3x what is asked, like you mom trying to push food off on you at Thanksgiving.

I can't give you a pat answer any more than I can tell you the exact instant a boy becomes a man.
 
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ebia

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"Soul" is really no more than biblical jargon for personhood, personality, whole person. So:

Not that I believe in the soul,
You don't believe in personhood or personality? Wow!

but when is the exact moment you guys think a soul is created?
When is the exact moment when someone becomes a person and gets a personality?
 
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lawtonfogle

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At conception. When "the angel departed from her" Mary rose and went to Elisabeth who was six months pregnant with John....

Luke 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
The soul/spirit of the babe in her womb recognized the soul/spirit of the babe in Mary's womb.


Conception is not some simple thing that happens instantly, but takes a long time. At what point during conceptions does the soul arrive/appear/ect.?
 
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Witchy Bee

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Energy is simply something's potential to do work...
Yes, everyone has the potential of a soul.
Think about it, you say you don't believe in the soul, and yet you're still a functioning human being. So obviously one can live without being aware of one's soul. Not believing in the soul doesn't effect your conscious mind in any way. You still have your morals, instincts, values, etc. You know the difference between right and wrong, don't you?

However, if one chooses to become aware of one's own soul, it unlocks that potential to have great power within the universe. You can use the connection between your spirit and everything around you if you wanted to. It not only enhances how you see the world, but how you see yourself in it.

I was an atheist until I found something I could believe in. I'm not saying it's the same for everyone because everyone has their own path. If you feel you're headed in the right direction, then more power too ya. I didn't mean to sound so idealistic.

So, that's a bit more about how I view the spirit. But of course I only have myself to compare it to. :)
 
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Jenny12358

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You don't believe in personhood or personality? Wow!

The only trait universally attributed to a soul is its eternal existence. I don't believe that that makes any sense and I don't believe in the afterlife.

But if you want to say that the soul is just "who you are", I don't see why it's necessary. Why can't you have conciousness and not have a soul? When we have AIs that can pass the Turing_test you'll have a problem, because you'll have to accept that machines have a soul. (Incidentally, Battlestar Gallactica is an excellent series. Frakkin Cylons!)

What's your opinion on how intelligent an artificial intelligence has to be before it gets a soul? There are already computers which show more initiative than, say, a drone in a bee hive, so do AIs already have souls?
 
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