When Do You Forgive?

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 31, 2018

QUOTE="ViaCrucis, post: 73012911, member: 293637"]We have Christ set before us as our Example, that we might follow in His steps (1 Peter 2:21), how does our Lord show us the way? He forgives preemptively, this He does time and again. Indeed, He has shown us in His own Prayer, "forgive us our trespasses even as we forgive those who have trespassed against us."

In light of the forgiveness we have received, unconditionally in Christ and from Him, let us therefore set our gaze upon Him, walking forward in forgiveness.

None came before Him as He bore Himself naked on the cross in suffering to seek His forgiveness, but what does He say? "Father, forgive them!"

Go and do likewise.

-CryptoLutheran[/QUOTE

How important is this .......... . "Father, forgive them, " ..... "for they know not what they do" ?

LisaMC-D · Jul 31, 2018

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Ghandhi recognized (as is the case, as many others also notice) that most Christians he saw refused to repent of their lives (thus did not live like Christ),
but Ghandhi still, as far as known, never repented of his own life apart from and opposed to Christ,
so he is not as far as known ever saved and definitely not a trustworthy nor competent nor reliable source for anything.

So, when I read something that inspires me, educates me, or causes me to pause when it concerns our Father or anything, I should just be cautious as to the source. I get that. But I don't feel comfortable dismissing everything that is written by non-believers. These days, I grow more appalled by many things written by believers. I don't dismiss what they write, either, but consider and discern.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 31, 2018

LisaMC-D said:
So, when I read something that inspires me, educates me, or causes me to pause when it concerns our Father or anything, I should just be cautious as to the source. I get that. But I don't feel comfortable dismissing everything that is written by non-believers. These days, I grow more appalled by many things written by believers. I don't dismiss what they write, either, but consider and discern.

The source of a statement can be polluted water, even if it sounds alright.
Like hasatan speaking to Jesus the Savior, or to Chavah(Eve) ....

Nothing from a polluted evil source can grow good fruit, not even "by grace".

Good you feel appalled by many things written by 'believers' - this is necessary - do not accept what 'believers' post without first testing it by Scripture and prayer and proving it is true and in complete harmony with God and His Word and His Plan. (remember hasatan SPOKE THROUGH THE APOSTLE(s) at times !!!!!) and the APOSTLES WARNED - DO NOT accept anything we apostles tell you as a message from God UNLESS it is true and proven when tested in line with the GOSPEL OF JESUS / all scripture/ delivered once for all.

NOTHING can be believed nor accepted on face value - EVERYTHING must be tested and proven truth BEFORE accepting it.

Even if Ghandi said something true, as may happen as even hasatan said some truth when he sought to deceive Jesus and Chavah,
it is still a sin to trust him or to lean on his understanding or to use him as if a "good" reference since he remained willfully outside of Christ (as far as we know and from his own words) thus an enemy of the truth , promoting as it were "another way" - a false gospel instead of Christ.

Halbhh · Jul 31, 2018

Chinchilla said:
When Jesus was with apostles he told everyone to show the second cheek if somebody slapped you on first but when he knew that his time is comming to end he told them to go back to having purse , buy sword for self defence because he will be no longer with them .

We can defend ourselfes and have rights to do so .

You'd best check the context verses on the buy a sword verse, so you get what actually is meant, about fulfilling the specific prophecy as foretold in older scripture. He was numbered among the transgressors just as foretold.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 31, 2018

Yet if Jesus says the Father will show you a better way and will be your defense - it is His battle - and be your protector and be your guide instead of you trying to be,
wouldn't you prefer His Way instead of the way of the flesh that is permitted but is not with the same temporary ending destination or results ?

Chinchilla said:
We can defend ourselfes and have rights to do so .

Halbhh · Jul 31, 2018

dreadnought said:
If someone comes to your door every day and kicks you in the shin, would you continue to open the door for him?

Perhaps answered well enough, but it's the key question in this thread --

We forgive because we are commanded to forgive, but...

That's not the same as ignoring their wrong or failing to point it out to them (gracefully as possible).

I forgive the person that kicks me in the shin, as I'm required to, but I don't open that door to let him do it again the next day if he has not clearly repented.

Put another way, we don't put a temptation in front of a person with a known weakness. Don't leave a valuable unguarded near an unrepentant thief, don't make oneself too available to the promiscuous, don't share private information to a gossiper, etc.

But do this -- "...forgive your brother/sister from your heart."

Even while we lovingly tell them how they hurt us, so that they might later repent and be fully restored.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 31, 2018

Before he comes and kicks you in the shin-agin ,

FIX A NICE MEAL FOR HIM, and then when he comes to your door , offer him the nice meal with no strings attached - "turn the other shin"

dreadnought said:
If someone comes to your door every day and kicks you in the shin, would you continue to open the door for him?

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 31, 2018

They are in very serious trouble if they cannot forgive.

Chinchilla said:
I know a person who can't forgive and is full of hate when ever hearing the voice of second person even tho they were close together before that .

Is the separation best solution if none of them can forgive ?

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 31, 2018

I saw a translation of Jesus saying "Repent, for the Kingdom of Yahweh is at hand"

"Turn to Yahweh, for the Kingdom of Yahweh is at hand"

SO, IF someone "REALLY REALLY" prays "Our Father....."

they have turned to Yahweh ...... (i.e. repented....)

(most people on earth cannot call Yahweh their Father in truth.)

JIMINZ said:
.
Where in the Lords Prayer is Repentance mentioned?

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Jul 31, 2018

dreadnought said:
The Lord tells us that we must forgive someone who has repented of their sin:

[3] Take heed to yourselves; if your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him;
[4] and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, and says, `I repent,' you must forgive him." Luke 17:3-4 RSV

However, there are those who think you should forgive before someone repents. What do you think?

We must forgive all those who have sinned against us or we will not be forgiven, it doesn't say we should wait until they repent to forgive them in our hearts. Forgiving them in person is a different story it is definitely better to forgive them whenever you get the chance to, but if they come to you first asking for forgiveness, as a christian you must forgive them. So first you must forgive them in your heart as soon(or as close to the time) as they have wronged you.
Matthew 6:14-6:15
Matthew 18:15,21-22
Colossians 3:12-13
2 Corinthians 2:7-11
Ephesians 4:32
Mark 11:25-26

Halbhh · Jul 31, 2018

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Before he comes and kicks you in the shin-agin ,

FIX A NICE MEAL FOR HIM, and then when he comes to your door , offer him the nice meal with no strings attached - "turn the other shin"

That's a beautifully graceful way to indeed show them their wrong, by pointedly doing good to them after they've done bad to us. Paul's "heaping coals of fire [conscience] on their heads". And to have authentically forgiven them from the heart. I think it could help some cases to say "ouch" also!

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 31, 2018

hahahaha --- I had to laugh out loud when I read the last part -
with family wrestling or punching or whatever in fun, joyfully,
I used to say "ouch" BEFORE it hurt ! (if it might hurt shortly )

Yes, that might work with others not just in fun also.......

Halbhh said:
That's a beautifully graceful way to indeed show them their wrong, by pointedly doing good to them after they've done bad to us. Paul's "heaping coals of fire [conscience] on their heads". And to have authentically forgiven them from the heart. I think it could help some cases to say "ouch" also!

Persis · Jul 31, 2018

LisaMC-D said:
Persis, Do you not find inspiration and wisdom from Gandhi?

Hi Lisa. No, I don't.. I am assured I get everything I need from God's Word, lest I be led astray by anything Ghandi says. Ghandi did not know absolute Truth. Absolute Truth, who is our Lord.

1213 · Jul 31, 2018

dreadnought said:
The Lord tells us that we must forgive someone who has repented of their sin:

[3] Take heed to yourselves; if your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him;
[4] and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, and says, `I repent,' you must forgive him." Luke 17:3-4 RSV

However, there are those who think you should forgive before someone repents. What do you think?

I think good way is to follow the teachings of Jesus. But I think it is not wrong to forgive even before repenting. It is just not useful to forgive then, because if person continues in sin anyway, the forgiveness is not helpful.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 31, 2018

1213 said:
I think good way is to follow the teachings of Jesus. But I think it is not wrong to forgive even before repenting. It is just not useful to forgive then, because if person continues in sin anyway, the forgiveness is not helpful.

The "forgiveness" would be "helpful" not for the one who had been offered forgiveness,
but
by forgiving, the one forgiving/offering forgiveness/ is relieved of a possible judgment against themselves
or relieved of the burden of not forgiving someone else, (or of carrying a heavy un-good judgment against someone else) perhaps.

i.e. forgiveness might often if not always be helpful for the one offering forgiveness in truth, God's Way.

Aldebaran · Jul 31, 2018

yeshuaslavejeff said:
They are in very serious trouble if they cannot forgive.

I'm starting to wonder if the definition of "forgive" should be discussed here. An understanding of what it is helps quite a bit. Sometimes we can believe we have forgiven when we actually haven't, and vice versa.
Example: A person hits you and then shortly afterwards "repents" and asks for forgiveness, and then right after that he hits you again and then asks for forgiveness again. How many times do you let him hit you before you stop believing that he has repented? Once you stop believing he's repented, have you stopped forgiving him? And when you see him again, are you going to keep a close eye on him lest he hits you some more? If so, have you really forgiven him?

dreadnought · Jul 31, 2018

JIMINZ said:
.
The only verses you have posted which say the are the ones in the OP.

I showed you that those verses were in relation to brothers, and not unbelievers, you cannot expect un-believers to repent, they really don't care.

If you want to forgive everybody, go ahead.

dreadnought · Jul 31, 2018

JIMINZ said:
.
The you haven't read any of what I have said, and you do not understand Salvation.

Like I say, if you want forgiveness, I think you're going to have to repent of any sins you are committing.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 31, 2018

I love the accounts/ stories of 3 year olds playing together at home, in the yard, at a park, wherever....
and for all of 3 minutes one of them could be so bad being mad (for a moment) at another one.....
then they make up , sometimes without a word, and just continue playing like lifetime friends/ good buddies and no thought nor even seeming memory of those
moments of being mad on either side/ by anyone - all forgotten in a few moments / minutes .........

dreadnought · Jul 31, 2018

Tutorman said:
When they ask for forgiveness

And repent of their sin.

When Do You Forgive?

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