When Do You Forgive?

Saintly Sinner · Aug 1, 2018

anx66 said:
You say, "With great evil also comes great penalty; you can't simply overlook or forgive true evil."

Jesus forgave people on the cross, for their evil. After all, they did kill a perfect person. I don't remember Jesus retaliating.

Meh, I misinterpreted your post.
My last post still stands, because it's the truth, but I'll counter your argument anyway_

God is still the Old Testament God- He still has sovereignty over man- builds and destroys, hands people to their sins, ruins one to build another- I feel like this is the most important thing a lot of Christians forget about concerning God.

Tutorman · Aug 1, 2018

dreadnought said:
However, I believe they need to repent.

I would accept "I'm sorry"

Arthur B Via · Aug 2, 2018

anx66 said:
Doesn't the Bible say that we are supposed to follow Jesus, and doesn't that mean we should be loving and forgiving.

EXACTLY...

RaymondG · Aug 2, 2018

Saintly Sinner said:
We are supposed to be loving and forgiving- we're also supposed to be aware of the fact that the world around us is extraordinarily wicked.
With great evil also comes great penalty; you can't simply overlook or forgive true evil.

What is the difference in the treatment you give one who you dont forgive and one you do forgive. Lets say two people kicked you......yet only one repented and asked forgiveness......but neither of them repeated the action. How would you treat each one....and what would be the feeling you have inside when seeing each of them?

Aldebaran · Aug 2, 2018

RaymondG said:
What is the difference in the treatment you give one who you dont forgive and one you do forgive. Lets say two people kicked you......yet only one repented and asked forgiveness......but neither of them repeated the action. How would you treat each one....and what would be the feeling you have inside when seeing each of them?

What if the one who kicked you and didn't repent continued trying to do it again whenever he had the chance, even threatening to kick you until he puts you in the hospital. I'd be keeping an eye on that person. But is that forgiving? It's certainly not forgetting.

I speak from some experience. I have a neighbor that has been harassing and threatening me and calling the police on me repeatedly and making false accusations toward me. They point cameras at me all the time and do things to make my life miserable. I'd like to think that if this person repented and stopped, I would be forgiving. In fact, during times when they back off for awhile and things seem to become more peaceful, I like to think it's all over and we've moved on, only for them to start again, making me realize that nothing has changed, and this causes my guard to go up again. So, have I forgiven them?

RaymondG · Aug 2, 2018

Aldebaran said:
What if the one who kicked you and didn't repent continued trying to do it again whenever he had the chance, even threatening to kick you until he puts you in the hospital. I'd be keeping an eye on that person. But is that forgiving? It's certainly not forgetting.

I speak from some experience. I have a neighbor that has been harassing and threatening me and calling the police on me repeatedly and making false accusations toward me. They point cameras at me all the time and do things to make my life miserable. I'd like to think that if this person repented and stopped, I would be forgiving. In fact, during times when they back off for awhile and things seem to become more peaceful, I like to think it's all over and we've moved on, only for them to start again, making me realize that nothing has changed, and this causes my guard to go up again. So, have I forgiven them?

You changed it up a bit. my question was for when two people kick you...one is sorry for it, the other isnt.....maybe even laughs about it. But there is no danger of getting kicked again.....havnt been kicked in a year. You forgave the sorry one, but not the one who jokes about it. How does your thoughts and treatment towards the two differ?

Now for your situation. When you speak of the neighbor and think of the things He did.....do you get nervous feelings in the heart, anger in the mind that sometimes show outwardly as a crinkled brow? Do you start feeling the same hurt and pain that you felt when it was actively happening? IF SO, then you have not forgiven. When you are able to think and talk about it, without getting any of those feelings mentioned above....you have forgiven.....and are free....one less things to cause you hurt and pain......the only thing standing in the way of this freedom was your lack of forgiveness.....

Aldebaran · Aug 2, 2018

RaymondG said:
You changed it up a bit. my question was for when two people kick you...one is sorry for it, the other isnt.....maybe even laughs about it. But there is no danger of getting kicked again.....havnt been kicked in a year. You forgave the sorry one, but not the one who jokes about it. How does your thoughts and treatment towards the two differ?

Now for your situation. When you speak of the neighbor and think of the things He did.....do you get nervous feelings in the heart, anger in the mind that sometimes show outwardly as a crinkled brow? Do you start feeling the same hurt and pain that you felt when it was actively happening? IF SO, then you have not forgiven. When you are able to think and talk about it, without getting any of those feelings mentioned above....you have forgiven.....and are free....one less things to cause you hurt and pain......the only thing standing in the way of this freedom was your lack of forgiveness.....

Well, to answer your question, I'd say that my treatment toward the one who kicked me and still laughs about it would cause me to have negative thoughts toward that person and even be leery of being around them. The laughing and joking (assuming it's the provocative type) about it just reminds me of how they were happy to do it, and would make me feel worse.

As for my situation, I do feel nervous when I think about what they've done because it reminds me of what they continue to do and makes me nervous about what more they might do. So far, they've demonstrated that there really is no limits as to what they're willing to do as long as they don't get caught. When they stop doing those things, I feel less nervous because I get the impression that it might be over. I don't know how to not feel nervous when I've got someone with open hostilities toward me, and me alone for some reason, living just a few feet away from me and is doing their best to either get me arrested or make me move.

RaymondG · Aug 2, 2018

Aldebaran said:
Well, to answer your question, I'd say that my treatment toward the one who kicked me and still laughs about it would cause me to have negative thoughts toward that person and even be leery of being around them. The laughing and joking (assuming it's the provocative type) about it just reminds me of how they were happy to do it, and would make me feel worse.

Your feelings are normal.....all the world would feel and react the same. But we are a peculiar people.
We know that we control our heart and mind now....not those outside of us. Therefore my joy can no longer be stolen by the laughter of one outside of me. I forgave, so now I can feel good when they laugh (or at the worse, feel nothing). If will feel liberating the first time you notice that something that use to make you angry, no longer does so......but it will take you a long time to see this because you wont even be thinking about it anymore......God would have to let it cross your mind one day while sitting in contemplation.....then a smile will come on your face....Others will ask you "why is it that you smile?"......you will tell you that you have a Peace that they would not Understand......

Aldebaran said:
As for my situation, I do feel nervous when I think about what they've done because it reminds me of what they continue to do and makes me nervous about what more they might do. So far, they've demonstrated that there really is no limits as to what they're willing to do as long as they don't get caught. When they stop doing those things, I feel less nervous because I get the impression that it might be over. I don't know how to not feel nervous when I've got someone with open hostilities toward me, and me alone for some reason, living just a few feet away from me and is doing their best to either get me arrested or make me move.

See above,

the only thing I would add is the fact that, worrying and getting nervous does nothing to make the neighbor stop.....it only harms you physical and spiritually.....so why not try giving it up?
Cast you cares on Him....and be happy that He is about to deliver you from a situation in a way that you could not of planned yourself....

mama2one · Aug 2, 2018

RaymondG said:
Forgiveness has nothing to do with forgetting the actions. It is letting go of all feelings and emotions, especially the negative, associated with the action. You know that you have forgiven, when you can recall the event without any negative emotions or thoughts

agree ^

anx66 · Aug 2, 2018

Aldebaran said:
What if the one who kicked you and didn't repent continued trying to do it again whenever he had the chance, even threatening to kick you until he puts you in the hospital. I'd be keeping an eye on that person. But is that forgiving? It's certainly not forgetting.

I speak from some experience. I have a neighbor that has been harassing and threatening me and calling the police on me repeatedly and making false accusations toward me. They point cameras at me all the time and do things to make my life miserable. I'd like to think that if this person repented and stopped, I would be forgiving. In fact, during times when they back off for awhile and things seem to become more peaceful, I like to think it's all over and we've moved on, only for them to start again, making me realize that nothing has changed, and this causes my guard to go up again. So, have I forgiven them?

I would say the person probably isn't a Christian, because they are harassing you. So, what do you think God would have you do? Do you know what started the problems?

I had the same problem at work. I was harassed by a number of staff members, and I realized after months of anguish that I had to forgive them and move on. Have you prayed about the situation. Have you asked God to give you wisdom. To give you a solution. Sometimes God allows us to go through these situations to test our faith and sometimes we pray and God deals with the situation. I'll pray along with you brother.

anx66 · Aug 2, 2018

Saintly Sinner said:
Meh, I misinterpreted your post.
My last post still stands, because it's the truth, but I'll counter your argument anyway_

God is still the Old Testament God- He still has sovereignty over man- builds and destroys, hands people to their sins, ruins one to build another- I feel like this is the most important thing a lot of Christians forget about concerning God.

He is indeed the Old Testament God. He is sovereign. But it says in Romans leave room for God's punishment. Who knows, God could use your forgiving, merciful, behaviour, as a catalyst to bring somebody to know Jesus.

dreadnought · Aug 2, 2018

anx66 said:
Doesn't the Bible say that we are supposed to follow Jesus, and doesn't that mean we should be loving and forgiving.

Yes, he told us that when someone repents, we are to forgive.

dreadnought · Aug 2, 2018

anx66 said:
I don't see love in that kind of action.

I parent that fails to discipline their kids is irresponsible.

dreadnought · Aug 2, 2018

anx66 said:
I don't think that it's a Christians job to punish the sins of others. Does it say that it is in the scriptures? Does Jesus say that we should? I'm open to different ideas, with regard to interpreting these scriptures.

If you are the victim of someone's sin, why would you give them a pat on the back?

dreadnought · Aug 2, 2018

Tutorman said:
I would accept "I'm sorry"

So would I.

anx66 · Aug 2, 2018

dreadnought said:
If you are the victim of someone's sin, why would you give them a pat on the back?

How does this differ from how the world treats people?

Philip_B · Aug 3, 2018

The glory of Christianity is to conquer by forgiveness. William Blake.

dreadnought · Aug 3, 2018

anx66 said:
How does this differ from how the world treats people?

The world is governed by Satan, so I wouldn't use the world as an example.

dreadnought · Aug 3, 2018

Philip_B said:
View attachment 236499

The glory of Christianity is to conquer by forgiveness. William Blake.

Yes, when someone repents of their sin, we are required to forgive them.

anx66 · Aug 3, 2018

dreadnought said:
But let me ask this question again: If someone comes to your door every day and kicks you in the shin, will you continue to open the door for them?

If someone kicks you in the shin, you can keep the door shut as a preventative measure whilst still not holding the shin kicking incident against them.

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