Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
To be fair to Ebia, let us don't forget that categorization came primarily with the scholastics and they were not thought of as 7 early on.
Do you have evidence of these assertions Albion. Please forgive me, I have learned that it is necessary to ask because there are so many assumptions here on this board.Ebia's right. The number was set at 7 in the High Middle Ages. Previously, various people surmised that there were from 2 to 30 sacraments. And the Orthodox do not set a firm figure as a matter of principle.
Do you have evidence of these assertions Albion. Please forgive me, I have learned that it is necessary to ask because there are so many assumptions here on this board.
I'd love to know what 'other' sacraments were proposed...
Well, off the top of my head, I know that the following were argued for--
Preaching the Gospel
Hearing the Gospel preached.
Burying the Dead.
Ordaining a man as a bishop (which we usually call "Consecration", not Ordination) apart from the Holy Orders received by him earlier as a Deacon or Priest.
Footwashing.
Interestingly enough, there are a couple of Protestant denominations that consider the third and the last of these to be sacraments, although most Protestant churches consider only Baptism and the Lord's Supper to be sacraments/ordinances.
None of them was ever called a sacrament.
you seem to be looking for any way to avoid history. That's not necessary. It would be much more effective to acknowledge that this is the way it was but then begin arguing on the grounds of how the Church makes its decision as to what a sacrament is, how we know this is right, does scripture support the contention that some practice or other is a sacrament, and so on.People 'argued for' Jesus not being God, not being man, but these were never Catholic doctrine.
Also, you seem to be mentioning offices of the Church. Preaching the gospel, burying the dead, and bishop were all offices of the Church.
OOh yes, they were.
you seem to be looking for any way to avoid history. That's not necessary. It would be much more effective to acknowledge that this is the way it was but then begin arguing on the grounds of how the Church makes its decision as to what a sacrament is, how we know this is right, does scripture support the contention that some practice or other is a sacrament, and so on.
No, I was asked to name some of the practices that some important person or other thought should be considered sacraments in the years befoe the Church settled on the seven we have now. I merely identified some of those that were in that category; I didn't evaluate them in any way.
Not by anyone in authority.
To be fair, I guess it does matter how you use the term 'sacraments'. That was defined at the Council of Florence. So maybe we're talking past each other. Even today, some priests put sacramentals such as holy water on a par with sacraments, so it's possible to see the confusion...the concept of a sacrament was insufficiently developed in the ancient Church, and there was dispute about which Christian rituals and practices should be called sacraments. Sometimes the term was used to embrace practices we would deem sacramentals today. Sometimes its use was wider still, so that anything which could have a religious symbolism was called a sacrament.
In reality a huge swathe of Christianity agrees you have:
Baptism and Eucharist
then
Some others
Then
An uncounted number of other minor sacramental actions
Dispute is largely about exactly what arbitary classification you'll apply to the middle group, and where the arbitrary line between sacrament and sacramental will be drawn.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?