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Well aware, just trying to study the whole counsel of God's word concerning these subject stay tuned.
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The Greek word "ecclesia" is translated as "church" and is used many times in the Septuagint to refer to Israel in the wilderness, so again the body of Christ had its roots with Abraham in accordance with the promise, and the disciples not understanding those things does not change this.The church, the body of Christ, began in Luke 24:44-48, after the resurrection. Before Jesus's resurrection, the gospel of Salvation was kept secret from man's understanding.
Here are verses before the crucifixion and resurrection. Jesus told the disciples what was going to happen to him before he was crucified, but the understanding was kept hidden from them and everyone else, until after the resurrection.
Here it is in Luke 18, about it being kept hidden from the disciples' understanding....
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
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Next go to Luke 24:44-48, to where the church began....
After the resurrection, Jesus appeared to the disciples in their midst. In verse 44, Jesus reminded the disciples of what he said was going to happen in Luke 18 above, but the understanding was hid from the them before the crucifixion took place.
In verse 45, Jesus opened their understanding of the gospel of Salvation. And sends them to preach to the nations, as witnesses.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
They were saved through faith in a promised Redeemer even if they did not know the means of how he would accomplish their redemption. In Hebrews 11, it lists examples of people who had saving faith who all lived before the time of Christ.It is also important to know that the gospel of Savlation, the understanding of it, was hidden before the resurrection.
Because otherwise, Satan and his angels (the princes of this world) would not have sought to have Jesus's crucified - because in doing so, they unwittingly made it possible for God to justly judge them for their sins - while allowing God to justly forgive man for his sins.
Here are the verses...
1Corinthians2:7-8.
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Hi Douggg,The church, the body of Christ, began in Luke 24:44-48, after the resurrection. Before Jesus's resurrection, the gospel of Salvation was kept secret from man's understanding.
Here are verses before the crucifixion and resurrection. Jesus told the disciples what was going to happen to him before he was crucified, but the understanding was kept hidden from them and everyone else, until after the resurrection.
Here it is in Luke 18, about it being kept hidden from the disciples' understanding....
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next go to Luke 24:44-48, to where the church began....
After the resurrection, Jesus appeared to the disciples in their midst. In verse 44, Jesus reminded the disciples of what he said was going to happen in Luke 18 above, but the understanding was hid from the them before the crucifixion took place.
In verse 45, Jesus opened their understanding of the gospel of Salvation. And sends them to preach to the nations, as witnesses.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
The church did not exist before the resurrection of Jesus. In Matthew 16:18, Jesus said (paraphrased) I will (future tense) build my church on this rock (referring to Peter's statement of Jesus being the messiah).The Greek word "ecclesia" is translated as "church" and is used many times in the Septuagint to refer to Israel in the wilderness, so again the body of Christ had its roots with Abraham in accordance with the promise, and the disciples not understanding those things does not change this.
They had the hope of redemption based on faith - not works. No one was "saved" until after Jesus was resurrected. Hebrews 11 is about the principle that no-one can be saved according to works, but by faith. The example of Abraham was - to point out righteousness (not salvation) being accounted to him because of his faith, not his works.They were saved through faith in a promised Redeemer even if they did not know the means of how he would accomplish their redemption. In Hebrews 11, it lists examples of people who had saving faith who all lived before the time of Christ.
In Matthew 16:18, "oikodomeó" can and should be be translated as I will rebuild my church on this rock. In Acts 15:16-18, they saw themselves and the inclusion of Gentiles as being part of the restoration of Israel in fulfillment of prophecy, not as a brand new entity that was distinct from Israel.The church did not exist before the resurrection of Jesus. In Matthew 16:18, Jesus said (paraphrased) I will (future tense) build my church on this rock (referring to Peter's statement of Jesus being the messiah).
No one has ever been saved as the result of works because works were never commanded as a way of earning our salvation as a wage, even through perfect obedience (Romans 4:1-5). In Psalms 119:29-30, David wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him His way that he might know Him and Israel too, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so knowing God and Jesus is the goal of the law, which is eternal life, and which again is salvation by grace through faith. The people in the OT knew about salvation, grace, faith, and the coming Messiah, so they were saved by the same means that we are.They had the hope of redemption based on faith - not works. No one was "saved" until after Jesus was resurrected. Hebrews 11 is about the principle that no-one can be saved according to works, but by faith. The example of Abraham was - to point out righteousness (not salvation) being accounted to him because of his faith, not his works.
Our Salvation entails (1) redemption of the soul, and (2) redemption of the body (which completes our salvation).
Them in the OT did not know that the Messiah would die for their sins. And them in the New Testament before the resurrection did not think that the Messsiah would die at all.The people in the OT knew about salvation, grace, faith, and the coming Messiah, so they were saved by the same means that we are.
All of the bible translators got it wrong ? I don't think so.In Matthew 16:18, "oikodomeó" can and should be be translated as I will rebuild my church on this rock.
The church, the body of Christ, began in Luke 24:44-48, after the resurrection. Before Jesus's resurrection, the gospel of Salvation was kept secret from man's understanding.
Here are verses before the crucifixion and resurrection. Jesus told the disciples what was going to happen to him before he was crucified, but the understanding was kept hidden from them and everyone else, until after the resurrection.
Here it is in Luke 18, about it being kept hidden from the disciples' understanding....
31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next go to Luke 24:44-48, to where the church began....
After the resurrection, Jesus appeared to the disciples in their midst. In verse 44, Jesus reminded the disciples of what he said was going to happen in Luke 18 above, but the understanding was hid from the them before the crucifixion took place.
In verse 45, Jesus opened their understanding of the gospel of Salvation. And sends them to preach to the nations, as witnesses.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
I mean that after Jesus appeared to them after he was resurrected, he opened their minds to understanding the gospel of Salvation, which was previously closed to their understanding.Are you saying, after Luke 22, they understood the gospel of Salvation?
I mean that after Jesus appeared to them after he was resurrected, he opened their minds to understanding the gospel of Salvation, which was previously closed to their understanding.
The gospel of the kingdom and the gospel of Salvation are inter-related - as both are tied to Jesus.Would that "gospel" still be the "gospel of the kingdom" still, not the gospel that Paul preached later?
The disciples, after Jesus's death and resurrection, then went out and preached the gospel of Salvation, based upon Jesus's atonement for our sins and belief of His resurrection on the third day.
The gospel of Salvation based upon Jesus's atonement for our sins and belief of His resurrection on the third day is constant and does not change.Let me try to understand what you are saying with those bolded words.
Do you think there is a difference between preaching:
versus
- In wickedness, you have killed your Messiah but God raised him from the dead as a sign that he is truly the Son of God, so repent of that wicked deed and be water baptized, and you will be saved from your sins in the future. (Acts 2:36 Acts 3:14-21 Acts 5:30 Acts 7:52 )
- Christ has died for your sins and rose again on the 3rd day for your justification. (1 Cor 15:1-4)
Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,But if you read Acts 2 and 3, that was not what Peter was preaching.
Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
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From your previous post.... In wickedness, you have killed your Messiah but God raised him from the dead as a sign that he is truly the Son of God, so repent of that wicked deed and be water baptized, and you will be saved from your sins in the future. (Acts 2:36 Acts 3:14-21 Acts 5:30 Acts 7:52 )
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