When a spouse is more of an enemy than a partner.

mkgal1 · Oct 15, 2012

What to do?

This came up in another thread. For more of the context....here is the link to that thread:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7685063-8/

Mainly....the following quote is what I thought would be worthy of discussion:

By continuing to be steadfast in their prayers, women in the situation you are describing store up treasures in Heaven. Worldly circumstances don't mean nearly as much as one's closeness to God, please know this!
We must always remember that our conduct should glorify God even when we feel like those around us deserve for us to respond in an ungodly way. This is why God said the believing wife sanctifies the unbelieving husband, and that we should pray for those who persecute us and hurt us, and love our enemies.
If our worldly circumstance, I.e. our relationship with our spouse, is good, it isn't because God loves us more than those who don't have it as good. If our worldly circumstance is bad, it isn't because He loves us less.

Christ offers us peace, not prosperity, inner peace that transcends our human understanding. There was time when I did not know whether my husband would change, and that lasted for awhile. If I had given up on my marriage based on the way things were (and I would have had every worldly right to) we would not be in the place we are now, truly cherishing each other and praising God for transforming our hearts.

I'm not saying its easy. But sometimes the narrow road is a rocky one.

motherprayer · Oct 16, 2012

Good idea!
Its super early, so my brain is not working yet, but I wanted you to know I saw the thread

Niffer · Oct 16, 2012

I believe this. As soon as we decide to marry, we do it "for better or worse", barring physical abuse or infidelity, you are yoked to your spouse.
You cannot change your spouse, only God can. And you may find that you married a cold spouse, or an angry one, or a lazy one - and that will test your marriage horribly.
But it's too late now to decide "I don't like him - or that trait." That train of thought had to leave as soon as you married him - a decision you made willingly. (in most cases)
However, you CAN change your reactions, your behavior, and decide to love your husband when he's being unlovable, to pray for your husband daily - you cannot hate or neglect those you pray for,
The purpose of marriage isn't to make you "happy," I believe it was created to make you more holy.

Peace,
- Jenny

mkgal1 · Oct 16, 2012

When I say "enemy"....I don't mean a spouse that has a different demeanor than us....or one that's generally "cranky" or "lazy". IMO.....those are all differences of personality or one person not meeting the "criteria" of the other. IOW....."you aren't exactly like me, and I don't like that." You're right, Jenny.....that's backing out of loving and cherishing "all the days of your life" as was promised. For one to have expectations like that would be breaking their covenant.

What I *am* meaning, when I say "enemy" is someone that's aligned with our main enemy----God's enemy---Satan. Satan's agenda is to steal.....destroy....kill (even relationships). God's agenda is to give us life abundantly.

Now listen! Today I am giving you a choice between life and death, between prosperity and disaster.~Deuteronomy 30:15

The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.~John 10:10

Don't team up with those who are unbelievers. How can righteousness be a partner with wickedness? How can light live with darkness?What harmony can there be between Christ and the devil? How can a believer be a partner with an unbeliever?~2nd Corinthians 6:14-15

mkgal1 · Oct 16, 2012

Niffer said:
The purpose of marriage isn't to make you "happy," I believe it was created to make you more holy.

Peace,
- Jenny

I believe that as well......but, a huge part of being holy is HATING sin (as God does).

There are six things the LORD hates--no, seven things he detests:haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that kill the innocent, a heart that plots evil, feet that race to do wrong, false witness who pours out lies, a person who sows discord in a family.~Proverbs 6:16-19

Avniel · Oct 16, 2012

Truthfully I think most Christians don't understand what the covenant of marriage really is and why sexual infidelity or emotional infidelity is the only way to disconnect from that relationship between man, woman and God.

I don't think two people that have become one can be enemies. At times our actions are selfish and self serving because we are flawed in nature. Even towards our own person there are times when we treat our own person unloving....not eating healthy, smoking, not working out. We all have treated our spouse in an unloving way but that doesn't change the fact that we love our spouses.

I think two people that are one could never ever truly be enemies. They might not like each other they might betray each others trust disappoint each other. But that's why Jesus said its better to be single because we are carnal minded and our hearts harden easily.

mkgal1 · Oct 16, 2012

Another thing....

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.~Matthew 10:34

mkgal1 · Oct 16, 2012

Avniel said:
Truthfully I think most Christians don't understand what the covenant of marriage really is and why sexual infidelity or emotional infidelity is the only way to disconnect from that relationship between man, woman and God.

I don't think two people that have become one can be enemies. At times our actions are selfish and self serving because we are flawed in nature. Even towards our own person there are times when we treat our own person unloving....not eating healthy, smoking, not working out. We all have treated our spouse in an unloving way but that doesn't change the fact that we love our spouses.

I think two people that are one could never ever truly be enemies.

When two people are committed to genuinely loving God and loving others.....I believe you are absolutely right---that they cannot become enemies.

By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”~John 13:35

mkgal1 · Oct 16, 2012

Avniel said:
They might not like each other they might betray each others trust disappoint each other. But that's why Jesus said its better to be single because we are carnal minded and our hearts harden easily.

Wait! What do you mean by "they might betray each other's trust"? Can you give an example of what you mean by that? If that's a pattern...how the relationship is characterized......how can you say that's "love"?

Avniel · Oct 16, 2012

mkgal1 said:
Wait! What do you mean by "they might betray each other's trust"? Can you give an example of what you mean by that? If that's a pattern...how the relationship is characterized......how can you say that's "love"?

I mean lets say I tell my wife I'm going to do something like wash the dishes and I forget she could feel like its betrayal of trust. Is it, yes if you think about it but does that mean I don't love her no.

People have different levels of what betrayal is to them and what trust is. In any relationship there are going to be hurt feelings and disappointment. No one is perfect and no two people are raised the same. Trust and betrayal are subjective.

mkgal1 · Oct 16, 2012

Avniel said:
I mean lets say I tell my wife I'm going to do something like wash the dishes and I forget she could feel like its betrayal of trust. Is it, yes if you think about it but does that mean I don't love her no.

People have different levels of what betrayal is to them and what trust is. In any relationship there are going to be hurt feelings and disappointment. No one is perfect and no two people are raised the same. Trust and betrayal are subjective.

Absolutely....no one is perfect.....but, I'm not so sure that standards of betrayal are "up for grabs" in definition.

IMO....there *is* a "side of good" in all situations. We can't base our decisions on "snapshots" of life-----it's more about the "big picture".....what motivates a person.....what leads them to make the choices they do.

Your example (not that I'm tearing it a part)....but, to me, is like the difference between a person that gets a speeding ticket (when they truly *were* speeding--yet not being reckless).....compared to someone that can laugh at someone's pain....mock someone for how they look (which isn't against the law----but, is VERY wrong, in my book). Do you see what I mean? Is the person that actually broke a law worse than the one that's mocking someone for how they look (and does that often....can actually be characterized as someone that's critical and mean to others)? Can we say for sure.....or is that subjective?

Avniel · Oct 16, 2012

mkgal1 said:
Absolutely....no one is perfect.....but, I'm not so sure that standards of betrayal are "up for grabs" in definition.

IMO....there *is* a "side of good" in all situations. We can't base our decisions on "snapshots" of life-----it's more about the "big picture".....what motivates a person.....what leads them to make the choices they do.

Your example (not that I'm tearing it a part)....but, to me, is like the difference between a person that gets a speeding ticket (when they truly *were* speeding).....compared to someone that can laugh at someone's pain....mock someone for how they look (which isn't against the law----but, is VERY wrong, in my book). Do you see what I mean?

Yes and no.

You see speeding is dangerous people get hurt its against the law. Most of my best friends make fun of each other and how we look, and mocking ones pain if I called my best man crying he will laugh at me days later mock my voice and we both will laugh.

It's subjective. It's who you are, where your from and how you were raised.

Talking about people in my wife's home church is betrayal to her. Talking about people in my home church would be an invite for me to vent about my childhood and what's wrong with the church of God in Christ. It's different.

Betrayal and trust are different for different people. An example people on here have said they talked to their friend and they said.....but to me that's betrayal to many people like my cousin and his girlfriend its not.

ImaginaryDay · Oct 16, 2012

Niffer said:
I believe this. As soon as we decide to marry, we do it "for better or worse", barring physical abuse or infidelity, you are yoked to your spouse.
You cannot change your spouse, only God can. And you may find that you married a cold spouse, or an angry one, or a lazy one - and that will test your marriage horribly.
But it's too late now to decide "I don't like him - or that trait." That train of thought had to leave as soon as you married him - a decision you made willingly. (in most cases)
However, you CAN change your reactions, your behavior, and decide to love your husband when he's being unlovable, to pray for your husband daily - you cannot hate or neglect those you pray for,
The purpose of marriage isn't to make you "happy," I believe it was created to make you more holy.

Peace,
- Jenny

You beat me to it! The principle here, once it becomes ingrained, will change a person's entire view of the marriage relationship. Challenges will come, for sure, and I believe that keeping our eye firmly fixed on our relationship with Christ in our marriage as the primary goal (as opposed to happiness with our spouse) is what will lead to marital success and one that honors God and our spouse. I believe it also allows us to move past some of the 'rules' of who is in charge, who submits to whom, who controls what in the marriage, etc. Not that these issues have no place, but they will resolve themselves as each spouse submits first to Christ and seeks to become closer to Him.
Imo, sin and betrayal of trust (and all the rest) have a greater chance of entering the marriage when this first priority/relationship is lost. So we should confront sin, for sure, but leaving it at that misses the root of the problem. It's a relational issue as well. We are detached from Christ in a certain area of our life as well as from our spouse, and this needs to be addressed and repented of as much as reconciliation with our spouse.

mkgal1 · Oct 16, 2012

Avniel said:
Yes and no.

You see speeding is dangerous people get hurt its against the law.

That's why I put the qualifier that my example was someone "speeding" .....yet, "not being reckless". Legally.....I am speeding on the freeway when I'm doing 66 MPH (in some places).......even if I am alone and it's a bright sunny day, and I can see clearly for miles.

Avniel said:
Most of my best friends make fun of each other and how we look, and mocking ones pain if I called my best man crying he will laugh at me days later mock my voice and we both will laugh.

It's subjective. It's who you are, where your from and how you were raised.

But, you are describing a completely different situation than I'm trying to describe. I am talking about someone trying to hurt another person---intentionally. Bullying is real.....abuse is real......there are people that literally *enjoy* the feeling of seeing someone in pain (and I'm not talking about S & M, either).

A lot of us seemed to have been raised that "evil" and "bad people" have a certain look. We seem to think of "diabolical" as an ax murderer. "Diabolical" doesn't have a certain "look"....nor is it always easily identified. We are instructed in the Bible to "not be ignorant of our enemies devices". Just as we are God's "hands and feet"......our enemy *also* has those that carry out his work---and some of them are people we are "in life" with.

ChristianGolfer · Oct 16, 2012

mkgal1 said:
What to do?

Well, I can only speak for myself but if my husband became my enemy, he wouldn't be my husband for very much longer.

Again, only speaking for myself, but when I said "for better or for worse" what I was agreeing to included hard times and good times brought about by external forces. I was not agreeing to be bound to a man who actually wants to destroy me. And I am not about to allow other people to dictate to me that my marriage is anything other than what I and my husband make it.

I got married because I wanted, and still want, a partner in life. I got married because I love my husband and I chose to partner with him. I didn't get married out of a desire to be made more holy - if that were the case, I would have chosen a jerk who would treat me badly.

No. I have been made holy by Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice and am being made holy by the work of the Holy Spirit and it started long before I got married and will continue through all of life's circumstances. Christ doesn't need me to have a husband to make me Holy. He's perfectly capable of doing that all by Himself, tyvm.

And, frankly, I find that line of thinking to be both impractical and bizarre. (Bizarre because I think the logical extension of it is that marriage should produce suffering in our lives because suffering is what produces endurance/perseverance which produces character. Romans 5:3-5. I find it bizarre that God's desire for marriage is that it be a source of suffering for us. God wants good things for us.)

Scripture never tells us that God's purpose for marriage is to make us holy. In Genesis it tells us why God instituted marriage. It wasn't so that Adam and Eve could become more holy. It was so that Adam had a partner.

I really believe that God intends marriage to be a source of blessing and happiness for us, not a source of suffering. Your spouse is supposed to be the main person in the world that you can depend on, who will support, help, and comfort you when the world, in all its fallen-ness, dumps suffering into our laps.

Now, I'm not a simpleton so I know that it isn't always going to be sunshine and lollipops. But that's life, not marriage specifically. Scripture says that if we sow to the spirit, we will reap spiritual fruit. Married or unmarried, the way to become a better person is the same - sow to the Spirit.

ImaginaryDay · Oct 16, 2012

ChristianGolfer said:
Well, I can only speak for myself but if my husband became my enemy, he wouldn't be my husband for very much longer.

Again, only speaking for myself, but when I said "for better or for worse" what I was agreeing to included hard times and good times brought about by external forces. I was not agreeing to be bound to a man who actually wants to destroy me. And I am not about to allow other people to dictate to me that my marriage is anything other than what I and my husband make it.

I got married because I wanted, and still want, a partner in life. I got married because I love my husband and I chose to partner with him. I didn't get married out of a desire to be made more holy - if that were the case, I would have chosen a jerk who would treat me badly.

No. I have been made holy by Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice and am being made holy by the work of the Holy Spirit and it started long before I got married and will continue through all of life's circumstances. Christ doesn't need me to have a husband to make me Holy. He's perfectly capable of doing that all by Himself, tyvm.

And, frankly, I find that line of thinking to be both impractical and bizarre. (Bizarre because I think the logical extension of it is that marriage should produce suffering in our lives because suffering is what produces endurance/perseverance which produces character. Romans 5:3-5. I find it bizarre that God's desire for marriage is that it be a source of suffering for us. God wants good things for us.)

Scripture never tells us that God's purpose for marriage is to make us holy. In Genesis it tells us why God instituted marriage. It wasn't so that Adam and Eve could become more holy. It was so that Adam had a partner.

I really believe that God intends marriage to be a source of blessing and happiness for us, not a source of suffering. Your spouse is supposed to be the main person in the world that you can depend on, who will support, help, and comfort you when the world, in all its fallen-ness, dumps suffering into our laps.

Now, I'm not a simpleton so I know that it isn't always going to be sunshine and lollipops. But that's life, not marriage specifically. Scripture says that if we sow to the spirit, we will reap spiritual fruit. Married or unmarried, the way to become a better person is the same - sow to the Spirit.

So when challenges in marriage come (and they will) what will you tell yourself? That you're unhappy and someone needs to change most likely... That's the inevitable result.
Holiness through the marriage relationship doesn't mean that marriage is a constant challenge and that happiness is a long gone daydream-far from it. But I would suggest that cultivating holiness through the marriage relationship brings a greater depth than merely relying on it to cure our need for a partner in life (although it does meet this need).

Now to the bold/underlined part. Your spouse will fail you in this area. It's inevitable. He will do it. Be ready. What will you do then? I would suggest that the concept of holiness in marriage applies in EXACTLY these times, when your spouse will fail you and you will see he is a fallen human being who will disappoint you. You will need to demonstrate to him (and he to you) that in times when you fail and show your human-ness to each other the greater goal is to demonstrate Christ to one another. That is holiness in marriage.

mkgal1 · Oct 16, 2012

ChristianGolfer said:
No. I have been made holy by Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice and am being made holy by the work of the Holy Spirit and it started long before I got married and will continue through all of life's circumstances. Christ doesn't need me to have a husband to make me Holy. He's perfectly capable of doing that all by Himself, tyvm.

mkgal1 · Oct 16, 2012

apostolic34 said:
So when challenges in marriage come (and they will) what will you tell yourself? That you're unhappy and someone needs to change most likely... That's the inevitable result.

I'm not answering for ChristianGolfer.....but, I did want to respond to this.

I think the key distinction would be that between a marriage that is based on two being united in Him....and one that is two people---with one occasionally "going their own way"....there wouldn't even be the question "what do you tell yourself?". Any concerns would be brought to the other spouse---and it (whatever the issue is that's making one unhappy)...would be worked on TOGETHER. One spouse's concerns is equally the other spouse's concern. If both are committed to abiding in God's will/love for them.....there will be cooperation towards that end.

I posted this in another thread, but think it applies here as well:

That is what I believe an ezer kenegdo does----partners with her spouse in God's work. We are His "hands and feet"....and like Ecclesiastes 4:9 says, "two are better than one.....they have a good return for their work."

"God's work" isn't limited to "church things"......it's life.....each and every aspect of it.

mkgal1 · Oct 16, 2012

apostolic34 said:
Now to the bold/underlined part. Your spouse will fail you in this area. It's inevitable. He will do it. Be ready. What will you do then? I would suggest that the concept of holiness in marriage applies in EXACTLY these times, when your spouse will fail you and you will see he is a fallen human being who will disappoint you. You will need to demonstrate to him (and he to you) that in times when you fail and show your human-ness to each other the greater goal is to demonstrate Christ to one another. That is holiness in marriage.

Our spouse will not take the place of God. They won't know us as God knows us.....but, when I hear that a spouse will automatically fail us in being the one person we can depend on....I have to ask, "what do you mean?" I don't want to suppose. No one else in this world has vowed to join their life with us until death.....so, if we can't expect our spouse to "be there" to support us through life....then, what is that promise for?

Avniel said early washing dishes could be seen as a betrayal of trust. I would never see it that way. If someone's trust is so easily broken, that all it takes is their spouse to forget to wash the dishes.....that's a very fragile marriage based on little substance (IMO).

ImaginaryDay · Oct 16, 2012

ChristianGolfer said:
I have been made holy by Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice and am being made holy by the work of the Holy Spirit and it started long before I got married and will continue through all of life's circumstances. Christ doesn't need me to have a husband to make me Holy. He's perfectly capable of doing that all by Himself, tyvm.

Okay, so let's answer this along with mkgal1's

I agree. But He does not do this in a vacuum. He will perform his ongoing work of holiness in us (sanctification) through others. He is a God of relationship. So to assume that the marriage relationship won't be used as an outlet to make us more like Him is just wrong.
I like sunshine and lollipops too (actually I prefer ice cream and Tim's coffee and so does my wife, but that's another thread) and there are plenty of good times to go around in marriage, but when they wax and wane, what answer do we have? I prefer to look at the grander scheme of things as God using marriage to draw me closer to Him and perfect me in His image.

When a spouse is more of an enemy than a partner.

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

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