Whats the purpose???

Organized Chaos · Aug 5, 2004

I honestly don't care that Christians believe that paganism is wrong. It's a part of their religion, and I won't try to change their faith.

I don't hesitate to correct any misconceptions or stereotypes they have about paganism, but I won't challenge their belief that Jesus is the One True Way.

Zen_Woof · Aug 5, 2004

e=mv^2 said:
I don't get this. It is ok for a pagan to say that Christianity is utterly bogus but when we refute this and explain our beliefs they get all bent out of shape.

How is that right?

Those that believe what the Bible tells us believe what it says in 1 Corinthians Chapter 10:

There you have it. Yet when we say this we are suddenly caste as "fundi".

Hello pot, this is kettle. You can not come in here spouting that Christ is false and that our Bible is wrong and not expect to be refuted.

I think this is a reasonable for Christians to take. It would be less confrontational and offensive, however, if people would actually discuss things rather than say "I'm right, you're wrong, and here's why." Mutual respect seems to get lost in the shuffle, IMHO.

With metta,
ZW

Nathan David · Aug 5, 2004

Holly3278 said:
So we're fanatics just because we believe that non-Christian religions are lies and are of the Devil?

Yes.

Heathen Dawn · Aug 5, 2004

e=mv^2 said:
Those that believe what the Bible tells us believe what it says in 1 Corinthians Chapter 10:

There you have it. Yet when we say this we are suddenly caste as "fundi".

I understand your point and I agree with it, though of course not in the way you intend. You say Christians show intolerance towards other religions because the Bible tells them to do so, not because they are evil people. And I find the point agreeable: the Bible is the problem.

ravenwolf · Aug 5, 2004

well, yeah I guess i forget thats part of Christian belief sometimes. Its just kinda hard for me to even try and understand. I maen i can a little, I'm sure if i seriosly beleived my fellow humans were going to burn in hell i would try and stop it, but at the same time i cant really understand becasue that idea seems so ridiculus to me(no offense).

I don't get this. It is ok for a pagan to say that Christianity is utterly bogus but when we refute this and explain our beliefs they get all bent out of shape.

Thats hardly the case, all the Wicca threads i've seen all start out peacefully and just discussing the beleifs of Wicca and then soem fundi Christian starts throwing Bible verses in and condemning with hell fire and then the pagans and Wiccans retort back and then thats how it gets started. I for one have never said Christianity is bogus, I disagree with it, but I dont think its bogus, and i have been in many head to head arguments with the fundies on here, i mostly just defend myself, though soemtimes i get a bit angry and say thigns i probably shouldnt say. And i never said anything about getting bent out of shape, I was just honostly curiose as to why they started a non-Christian section, was it strictly to win souls for Christ or just for diversity, thats all i was asking was a question that i was thinking.
Blessings
~ravenwolf

EdwardAnderson · Aug 5, 2004

People are enjoying words like fundi and extremist. Really quite ammusing because the people using them could quite easily be that which they describe.

A few notes.

Heathen Dawn the bible doesn't teach intollerance it teaches a love for everybody and forgiveness for everybody. This is the exact opposite of intollerance. Christians should not be intollerant of other religions, they should just not believe them. Intollerance stems from the person and not the faith.

Dymphna3

"Isn't that the sin of presumption Holly?...you know where you just assume things based on your own narrow view of God?"

You are allowed to believe what is written in the bible without it being presumption.

"I believe that all non-Christian religions are lies and are of the Devil. That doesn't mean that there isn't any good in them though. I believe in one true religion. All other religions are not true."

This is basicaly written in the bible.

TrueQ

Learn what fanaticism means.

I can see people are just trying to wind people up which is a bit of shame considering the start of this thread.

At the end of the day if you just respect an opinion as an opinion then there should be no trouble. I could strongly debate my side and you yours with fierce arguments and cross examination and at the end of it we can say, haha I don't agree with a word you just said but I understand where your coming from. Thats kind of the point of a discussion.

I'll end in a quote from this thread, hopefully people will take it on board.

"I absolutely refuse to insult anyone while defending my beliefs in my faith." -RJ1

boughtwithaprice · Aug 5, 2004

ravenwolf said:
well, yeah I guess i forget thats part of Christian belief sometimes. Its just kinda hard for me to even try and understand. I maen i can a little, I'm sure if i seriosly beleived my fellow humans were going to burn in hell i would try and stop it, but at the same time i cant really understand becasue that idea seems so ridiculus to me(no offense).
Thats hardly the case, all the Wicca threads i've seen all start out peacefully and just discussing the beleifs of Wicca and then soem fundi Christian starts throwing Bible verses in and condemning with hell fire and then the pagans and Wiccans retort back and then thats how it gets started. I for one have never said Christianity is bogus, I disagree with it, but I dont think its bogus, and i have been in many head to head arguments with the fundies on here, i mostly just defend myself, though soemtimes i get a bit angry and say thigns i probably shouldnt say. And i never said anything about getting bent out of shape, I was just honostly curiose as to why they started a non-Christian section, was it strictly to win souls for Christ or just for diversity, thats all i was asking was a question that i was thinking.
Blessings

~ravenwolf

Mod hat on

The Non-Christian Religion Forum is for all people that wish to submit themselves to God. We all believe that we are creatures and not divine.
Most religions share three correct presuppositions.

1) God is Perfect
2) One must be perfect to get to God
3) Mankind is not perfect

The disagreement is over how the situation is resolved. There is only one God, but many views of Him. Christianity believes that God reached out to mankind through His Son, Jesus. We at CF, believe that through dialogue, we may get to understand eachother more, and perhaps get to know God better.

There are those that wish to have their reality apart from God. They feel that they have divinity already, and through increase in knowledge, can learn to behave as god. They have been called by various names, satanists, followers of Set, the left hand path, etc. They have no part in Christian Forums or the Non-Christian Religion Forum, as they would subvert the mission of Christian Forums, as this quote demonstrates:

"Satanism is Satanism not due to our worship of any deity, but for the philosophy that we stand for. We recognize ourselves as gods, and we hold our own perspective on life as holy and revere our own experiences as the only truth we can ever know. "

"Satanism is the utter rejection of the spiritual way of theistic religions, and the honest admittence [sic] that we are just animals who evolve as any other complex system."

Any threads which promote or debate satanism will be deleted and the poster warned.

Mod hat off

Rae · Aug 6, 2004

the bible doesn't teach intollerance it teaches a love for everybody and forgiveness for everybody.

Even the Egyptians in the Exodus whose only crime was to be the firstborn in their families?

peaceful soul · Aug 6, 2004

I believe that all non-Christian religions are lies and are of the Devil.

Rae said:
And that is a wrong belief.

There is no such thing as a wrong belief. There is however, a wrong in believing something that can not be true. Perhaps that is what you mean.

Nevertheless, anyone can believe anything. The challenge comes when that person must act upon that belief. Then the reality of that belief can either be seen or disproven. That is the essence of faith in general terms.

For the record: Christianity does hold scripturally to the quote that your were quoting. Perhaps it is not stated in those exact words and percisely in that context. The Bible is not about going to hell as so many people distort it to be. Bible is about God reaching down to us and giving us a means of reaching Him. Unfortunately too many nonChristians have a distorted view of what Bible means and relays to us. Bible is about salvation and quite naturally, if you refused to be saved, you will not be in the eternal presence of God. Most people do not want to serve God because they have their own view of how God should be and how He should accept them. In other words, they set the criteria of how they relate to God. The one true God does not cater to such things. He speaks and it is final. You or I have no authority to author our own means to defining a realtionship with Him. Why do not people accept Christ? Because they allow their self-centered nature, which is a result of sin, to rule them, rather than the spirit of God to bring them to the understanding of God.

light-bringer · Aug 6, 2004

God...seems every thread gets into an argument ...

Mi Zai · Aug 6, 2004

boughtwithaprice said:
There are those that wish to have their reality apart from God.

That could also describe a Buddhist, Taoist, or Atheist. Why are we allowed and Satanists not? A Satanist IS NOT the same as an anti-christian.

light-bringer · Aug 6, 2004

Its a bias it seems. People should read the satanic bible before saying untrue things about it.

peaceful soul · Aug 6, 2004

Rae said:
Even the Egyptians in the Exodus whose only crime was to be the firstborn in their families?

Do you know the context of that passage, and who was doing what to whom, and for why? Bible teaches us that many things that look good are not really that way as the truth of the act manifests itself over time. Also the reverse is sometimes true: something that looks bad is actually good. For example: the destruction of man during the Great Flood is argued as God being some sadistic force, but in reality in context of God's wisdom, it actually saved man from being totally destroyed by God. I will give you a modern example: if a herd of cows has a disease among them, but it is not possible to tell exactly which ones are infected; it is common practice to kill the entire herd. Why? Because, if all of them are not killed or quarentined, the result may eventually affect the greater populus. Destruction is sometimes necessary to rebulid. Think of a forest that has overgrown itself with vegetation. The climate dries up. The foresters burn the area to preserve the rest of the forest. That burning will kill many innocent animals and plants. Is that wrong or immoral? Problem is that you do not know God's ways, and frankly, I did not either until I allowed God to minister to me. I read Bible and Holy Spirit teaches me these things. I would appreciate that if you give more time to understanding, perhaps you will not be so bent out of shape and perhaps it would be easier for us Christians to understand you too.

Sorry, I am going on so long, but felt that I had to say this.

The main problem with most of you here is that you do not really know Bible but are so ready to trounce on it to disprove it or to validate your view of life. You are just as guility of doing to us what you say that we do to you. I hope that you, plural, really come here with a intense interest to understand Biblical views and accept them for that: Biblical views.

light-bringer · Aug 6, 2004

That is you think most want to disprove the Bible...

Mi Zai · Aug 6, 2004

light-bringer said:
Its a bias it seems. People should read the satanic bible before saying untrue things about it.

So very true. Even the moderators... =(

Rae · Aug 6, 2004

Do you know the context of that passage, and who was doing what to whom, and for why?

I sure do. "God" (actually, the vengeful Hebrew authors who made up this story) had every first born Egyptian murdered for being Egyptian. Simple as that. Yes, I've heard the justifications for this, all of which sound exactly like the excuses used by spouse abusers to justify the awful and immoral acts they did to their victims. My morality doesn't let me excuse away immorality, whether it's credited to a deity or a human being. Sorry, PS. You may think an all powerful deity is justified in murdering babies because they were born to Egyptian parents. I think such an act is unjustifiable by its nature and those who try to justify it are behaving immorally and blasphemously (when they credit such acts to deities, anyhow).

LADY DI · Aug 6, 2004

Rae said:
I sure do. "God" (actually, the vengeful Hebrew authors who made up this story) had every first born Egyptian murdered for being Egyptian. Simple as that. Yes, I've heard the justifications for this, all of which sound exactly like the excuses used by spouse abusers to justify the awful and immoral acts they did to their victims. My morality doesn't let me excuse away immorality, whether it's credited to a deity or a human being. Sorry, PS. You may think an all powerful deity is justified in murdering babies because they were born to Egyptian parents. I think such an act is unjustifiable by its nature and those who try to justify it are behaving immorally and blasphemously (when they credit such acts to deities, anyhow).

Before the the first born son of the Eygptians were killed, the Eygptians were ordered by Pharaoh to kill every hebrew boy (Exodus 1:22), there is no justification of murdering hebrew babies simply because they were born to hebrew parents either.

Rae · Aug 6, 2004

there is no justification of murdering hebrew babies simply because they were born to hebrew parents either.

I never said there was...why are you implying I support slaughters of any babies, again? I oppose all such immoral acts, whether humans or "Gods" take them. Do you oppose the slaughter of babies based on who their parents are, too, no matter who decides to kill them?

wake up call · Aug 6, 2004

ravenwolf said:
I'm curious as to exactly what was the purpose and intent of CF putting a non-Christian religions section in... was it so people can learn about other religions and for diversity?? or was it simply so that all the fundi Christians could bash all the non-Christian religions for the fun of it???? I am beginning to think it is the later.

I don't think someone who admits to having a big mouth
http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=8733683&postcount=79
would have the guts to call other contributions as "bashing"
there are those who want to learn about other people's faiths, and I can see that others faiths are free to post whatever they want as well including their "bashing" of the Christian faith
so , live with it

Heathen Dawn · Aug 6, 2004

peaceful soul said:
There is no such thing as a wrong belief. There is however, a wrong in believing something that can not be true. Perhaps that is what you mean.

Each religion makes truth-claims, and they can be either true or false. For example, young-earth creationism is a truth-claim known to be wrong. And so too, I believe, is Christianity’s truth-claims that Yahweh is the Creator of the universe, and that all non-Christians end up in eternal hell.

The relationship a Christian has with his God is real, I will not deny it to him; but his beliefs that this relationship is the only true one, and that it is the only one that can get him to heaven, are wrong. They are false truth-claims. Christianity is a religion with a true God (Yahweh) but false truth-claims.

Whats the purpose???

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