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Oncedeceived

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Are you claiming actual, intended design in biological systems? Yes or no?
I am claiming that living forms appear to be designed with intentional purpose as specifically admitted by all biologists I am aware of. This evidence of design with purpose is either correct and accurate or is present only due to evolutionary processes that create an illusion of design. If it is indeed only an illusion of actual design it is incumbent on those who claim it is to provide the evidence that shows it is an illusion.
 
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Oncedeceived

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Are you now reduced to throwing out insults?
What is the insult? Dawkins is an avid and outspoken anti-theist which in Christian theology is anti-Christ attitude. Do you take offense to characterizing Dawkins as such?
 
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Davian

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Point out the insult if you will.
"Dawkins is such a despicable anti-theist and anitChrist he makes these claims that the gullible will embrace, never realizing until it's too late that his claim of illusion of design had absolutely no evidence to back it up. But, since it's an anti-theist rant, the blind will follow the blind."
 
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Loudmouth

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I am claiming that living forms appear to be designed with intentional purpose as specifically admitted by all biologists I am aware of.

We aren't asking for appearances. We are asking for objective evidence. Have any?

This evidence of design . . .

Appearances are not objective evidence.
 
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Oncedeceived

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No, design is perceived...
Design has recognizable features which are present in design produced by intelligent agents.

All that is needed to support that claim is for some people to see "design" (whatever they mean by that) in whatever is being discussed. Personally, I do not see this "design" that you allude to.
That goes without saying. Do you have the training and education equal to or better than the biologists that claim design is apparent in living forms?

Recall the 'face' in the cliff face; did it have to be a real face to produce the illusion of a face?
Yes, and no one feels it appears like an actual face. You are using a category error in your analogy.
 
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Loudmouth

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If the physical world is all there is and evolution the only process from which this illusion of design produced it is up to you to show the natural physical processes produced the design from which this illusion is claimed.

And here we go with the shift in the burden of proof. YOU ARE THE ONE CLAIMING TO HAVE A HYPOTHESIS. YOU!!!!!

If you have a hypothesis, then you necessarily need a null hypothesis. If you refuse to accept the null hypothesis, then you don't have a hypothesis.

The null hypothesis is that non-design processes can produce the observations. How do you intend to test for the null hypothesis?
 
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Davian

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What was I to look for in that video?
You are absolutely right, I don't perceive design I observe it
Yet all you can offer is what you perceive. No testable, falsifiable criteria.
and so do all biologists that I am aware of.
All of the biologists that you have cited to date have only admitted to the perception of "design". It "looks" that way.
The test is the recognition of intelligent agents designs being compared to those in life forms and the observation that the design is the same or similar to those made by intelligent agents.
But you cannot offer a means of falsification. You are not doing science.
 
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Oncedeceived

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Despicable is an adjective that some feel represents Dawkins. I find his remarks about Christians and religion despicable as well. Christians are told they are gullible all the time so I don't think you can cry foul there. Blind will follow the blind is a similar accusation encountered by Christians here all the time.
 
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justlookinla

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Those aren't insults, those are facts.
 
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Davian

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What is the insult? Dawkins is an avid and outspoken anti-theist which in Christian theology is anti-Christ attitude. Do you take offense to characterizing Dawkins as such?
I do not personally take offence, but I am only making an observation that he seems to be reduced to attacking the person, and those that accept the science that he is doing, rather than addressing said science.
 
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Oncedeceived

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What was I to look for in that video?
Scientific research and methodology? Do you not recognize that.

Yet all you can offer is what you perceive. No testable, falsifiable criteria.
I am offering what biologists observe in life forms.
All of the biologists that you have cited to date have only admitted to the perception of "design". It "looks" that way.
No, not perception of design...illusion of design. They observe living forms appear to be designed for a purpose meaning they look like they are designed with a purpose. It is either accurate or an illusion and they are claiming illusion.

But you cannot offer a means of falsification. You are not doing science.
Neither are you but the scientists are and they observe design in living things and are claiming that the design is an illusion of design. No scientific evidence is given for that conclusion.
 
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Oncedeceived

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I do not personally take offence, but I am only making an observation that he seems to be reduced to attacking the person, and those that accept the science that he is doing, rather than addressing said science.
The irony!
 
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justlookinla

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I do not personally take offence, but I am only making an observation that he seems to be reduced to attacking the person, and those that accept the science that he is doing, rather than addressing said science.

What science? His baseless claim of illusion of design isn't science other than in the world of the gullible.
 
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