What's done after Communion with the Bread and the Cup?

I'm unfamiliar with Methodist handling of the bread and the wine/grape juice after communion, with the leftover amount.

What happens to the unconsumed elements?

How are the vessels cleaned?

I couldn't find online and am curious to Eucharistic, not beliefs but also, practices.

FundiMentalist said:

I'm unfamiliar with Methodist handling of the bread and the wine/grape juice after communion, with the leftover amount.

What happens to the unconsumed elements?

How are the vessels cleaned?

I couldn't find online and am curious to Eucharistic, not beliefs but also, practices.

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I wondered about that too. I have been to Methodist services but have not partaken in communion as I did not know what was going on.

FundiMentalist said:

I'm unfamiliar with Methodist handling of the bread and the wine/grape juice after communion, with the leftover amount.

What happens to the unconsumed elements?

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Well, generally the following may happen:

1) Communion may be taken to those who can't attend worship. This includes those in nursing homes, hospitals, etc. It is usually the Pastor who does this, but he/she can train and allow others to do it.
2) The consecrated elements are consumed at the end of the service in a reverent manner.
3) The consecrated elements are returned to the earth.

You won't find the bread and wine being eaten as regular food or being thrown away since it's been consecrated and we do believe in the Real Presence.

How are the vessels cleaned?

I couldn't find online and am curious to Eucharistic, not beliefs but also, practices.

Click to expand...

The vessels are washed and put away. Some churches have a special sink in the sacristy that drains the water (and what remains from the vessels) directly into the earth, others do not. There are some churches who use disposable individual cups for communion. If they do, then they are simply thrown away once they are empty.

Historicus, that's exactly the kind of information I was looking for.

Do you know how common that is across Methodism? Is it something that, for instance, is in canon law or other governing documents?

Also, is the handling of the elements something significant enough that mishandling would be handled through defined disciplinary measures?

(Again, just seeking to learn.)

FundiMentalist said:

Historicus, that's exactly the kind of information I was looking for.

Do you know how common that is across Methodism? Is it something that, for instance, is in canon law or other governing documents?

Also, is the handling of the elements something significant enough that mishandling would be handled through defined disciplinary measures?

(Again, just seeking to learn.)

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What Historicus described will be true in some places, yet it is not universal. In my congregations, the left over juice is often returned to the bottle from which it was originally poured. The bread (when it is from a loaf) might be scattered for the birds or it might be taken home by a family to be consumed as household bread. (When it is one of those hard biscuits or wafers that sell it specifically to be used as communion bread, it is generally returned to the box it came from for use later.)

Anything in the life of a pastor could become significant enough that "mishandling" it could be result in some sort of disciplinary measure. I have never heard of that happening with regard to the handling of the communion elements. Still, if a congregant observed a pastor doing something that caused the congregant to get bent out of shape over it, what might seem like a molehill could become a mountain -- this true with anything a pastor does from song selections to the clothes he/she wears, and most certainly includes the handling of communion. My grandmother used to get so upset at her UM pastor for "lifting up the elements like the Catholics do." She asked me, "You would never do something like that, would you?" I do.


True story: A pastor who had founded a church retired after 30 years service. The last big project he tackled before retirement was to remodel the old sanctuary as the congregation had grown significantly and they needed to expand it. Having completed this, he retired and a new pastor assumed leadership in the church.

He hadn't been there too long when he asked for a special Pastor-Parish Relations Committee to be called to assess how things were going -- you don't replace a 30-year founding pastor without expecting there to be more than a few hiccups in the road. To his surprise things were going exceedingly well. They appreciated his sermons and his ability to blend more contemporary worship that appealed to some of the new and younger folk while maintaining the integrity of the more traditional overall worship the congregation generally preferred. He had done exceedingly well in quickly getting to known names and connect them with faces, not only in the church setting but out in public. They were pleased with his presence in the community and how he continued on the outreach ministry of his predecessor. His leadership of committees was quite frankly a breath of fresh air and seen by many as an improvement over one of the few weaknesses of their former pastor. Indeed there was just one thing that they hoped he might hear as a matter of concern, and that was the way he did communion.

It seemed that the former pastor had always taken a moment to go behind the communion table and place his hands ever so reverently on the radiator beneath the cross. The slow way in which he so deliberately did so spoke to the congregation of the awe and reverence with which one needed to take communion, if he could only add that he would be perfect. Indeed, one of the reasons that people were willing to say good-bye to their former pastor was concern that perhaps old age was creeping up on his was that he had frequently forgotten to do so himself after he had completed the remodelling of the sanctuary. And they just hated to see that left out of the service.

So, the new pastor agreed to do this, though he could think of no reason why it had become the pattern of the former pastor. But, if it had meaning to the congregation, since he could think of nothing inherently wrong with it, he could certainly accommodate that one change. Still, he was curious as to why the former pastor had done it, so one day he called him to ask why?

When the retired pastor heard the question at first he didn't even know what the new pastor was talking about. He had added nothing to the service that was different from what was in the Book of Worship. When he recalled he burst into hysterical laughter. The old sanctuary had been carpeted. And he found out as a young pastor that his gait was such that suffling along to deliver the communion elements he sometimes built up enough static electricity to give some of the people a bit of a shock. So, he had taken up the habit of getting rid of the excess charge by laying his hands on the radiator before serving them. The reason he was seen as so slow and reverential was that it often was quite a shock and he was preparing himself for the jolt. As to why he "forgot" in the newly remodelled sanctuary. Well, they had chosen to put down marble in the chancel area and his only act of forgetfulness was that after 30 years of doing the other, sometimes he did forget and simply continued what had become a habit when he didn't need to anymore.

I really like that story about the release of the static charge becoming tradition.

Pleased to hear of the lifting of the elements. I figure, it's better to know what one is for than what one is against. I'd think better theology and symbolism of forms derives from an intentionality toward something and someone (such as God) than away something or someone (such as for differentiation's sake from an outsider group of "them").

One theological kind of question...

GraceSeeker said:

What Historicus described will be true in some places, yet it is not universal. In my congregations, the left over juice is often returned to the bottle from which it was originally poured.

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In this, what's the kind of view of the consecration of the elements? I recently read of a "dynamic view" of the Eucharist (Rob Staples' Outward Sign and Inward Grace: The Place of Sacraments in Wesleyan Spirituality) where somehow the elements are consecrated for a period in time somehow revert or something. I don't understand completely.

I can see how memorialists and that pour it back in the Welch's container or, say, send it down the sink into the sewer. I can see how the real presence crew take extreme care in handling and carefully finishing consumption of the elements.

I'm curious about Methodists and Nazarenes and that because the seem to have a somewhat middle path between the Baptists and many Evangelicals in Zwingli's trail and most of the other early reformers and their predecessors too.

When you return it back to the bottle from which it was poured, is it never-had-been consecrated, deconsecrated, or what?

Just curious to understand. I don't really have any point or counterpoint here.

FundiMentalist said:

When you return it back to the bottle from which it was poured, is it never-had-been consecrated, deconsecrated, or what?

Just curious to understand. I don't really have any point or counterpoint here.

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You're asking me to think about something that I had never been either taught about nor thought about in 30+ years of pastoral ministry.

Once it is back in the bottle, we pretty much treat it like it plain old ordinary grape juice. I think it probably is "waste not, want not" theology if you want to know the truth of it. But the other day after the service, some of the Jr. High kids were caught drinking it little glass after little glass as if they were drinking shots lined up on a bar. The adult who caught them was one of our communion stewards and chewed them out on it because it was "communion" and we don't treat Christ's blood that way. Yet, she told me this in the kitchen where she is cleaning up the communion ware having returned the leftover juice to the Welch's bottle and placed it in the fridge to save for next month. Guess we don't always think things through as much as we like to think we do.

How's that for an answer? And again, you may find that there are those who have and I'm just slow on this one.

Answering this portion of your question:

I'm curious about Methodists and Nazarenes and that because the seem to have a somewhat middle path between the Baptists and many Evangelicals in Zwingli's trail and most of the other early reformers and their predecessors too.

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You can read the United Methodist view of Holy Communion here (PDF file).

FundiMentalist said:

Historicus, that's exactly the kind of information I was looking for.

Do you know how common that is across Methodism? Is it something that, for instance, is in canon law or other governing documents?

Also, is the handling of the elements something significant enough that mishandling would be handled through defined disciplinary measures?

(Again, just seeking to learn.)

Click to expand...

I did find this within This Holy Mystery (the document linked above adopted by the 2004 General Conference):

"The consecrated elements of bread and wine are used for distribution to the
sick and others who wish to commune but are unable to attend congregational
worship. If any bread and wine remain, they should always be disposed of by (1)
the pastor and/or others at the pastor’s direction consuming them in a reverent
manner following the service; (2) returning them to the earth by pouring (2
Samuel 23:16), burying, scattering, or burning." - Page 32

Pages 31-32 deal with this topic.

Again, like GraceSeeker has said the actual practices do vary between congregations and I'm sure within the different Methodist denominations.

Many thanks. Great reference.

Key passages indeed appear to be:

The Book of Worship directs, "What is done with the remaining bread and wine should express our stewardship of God's gifts and our respect for the holy purpose they have served" (page 30).

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And...

If any bread and wine remain, they should always be disposed of by (1) the pastor and/or others at the pastor's direction by consuming them in a reverent manner following the service; (2) returning them to the earth by pouring (2 Samuel 23:16), burying, scattering, or burning.

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I find it sometimes arbitrary among faith traditions that predecessors' swords to die on become our irrelevancies. Sometimes this helps me contextualize my on swords to die on. Otherwise, I usually don't know what to do with these ignored passages.

BTW, one of the things I liked about the referenced document was the structural rubric of Principle/Background/Practice. What a great way to give intentionality to life itself!

Thanks for looking that up Historicus. I almost linked to the document myself, but decided the question was more about our practice than our theology. However, I'm glad to read (and be corrected) on a better way to handle the remaining elements than I have. All of that was common practice when I was in the Lutheran Church, but in the UMC I've just let those who have handled them, do as they have always done and not even given it an after thought myself. I'll have to do better.

GraceSeeker said:

Thanks for looking that up Historicus. I almost linked to the document myself, but decided the question was more about our practice than our theology. However, I'm glad to read (and be corrected) on a better way to handle the remaining elements than I have. All of that was common practice when I was in the Lutheran Church, but in the UMC I've just let those who have handled them, do as they have always done and not even given it an after thought myself. I'll have to do better.

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Perhaps a good thing.

Sorry I wasn't clear about practice vs. theology. I usually consider them the same and that practice reveals the truly believed while it may not well reveal the believed-to-be-believed. I usually consider a person's "theology" the former of those two. (But maybe that's my rationalization because I'm woefully inadequate to have much content in the latter category.)

The last two Sundays my Evangelical pastor (who is undergoing significant multi-year transformation of his faith) somehow mentioned Real Presence. This last Sunday he mentioned Zwingli being more exceptional among the early Reformers.

After communion, everybody [else] was full of emotion, singing away:

"I love your Presence."

I just silently stood there--in feeling of isolation--looking at and into the contents of the cup, knowing it would be in the city sewer in a few moments.

I wondered about ecclesiology, intentionality of living, how the sacred infuses into this world, and whether or not there is any sort of Kingdom of God and how it might advance. Perhaps mostly I pondered what I'd think if it were my blood there.

I thought I'd ask a few Methodists about this because I had found a reference to Rob Staples' Outward Sign and Inward Grace: The Place of Sacraments in Wesleyan Spirituality that seems to describe some sort of reversion of the elements from a consecrated status or state. (I've yet to explore how or why such would be or be believed...)

Church-going has lots of these moments that I don't understand. Thanks for entertaining my questions and helping me learn.

Don't worry. I'm firmly in the camp that what you believe effects your behavior -- it's point #2 in my sermon this Sunday. I just was so happy to have others taking care of the set-up and clean-up for communion, that for some reason I hadn't thought about the idea of consecrated elements being returned to be mixed with unconsecrated elements before. Now that I have, it's obvious that I haven't been careful enough with them, and need to establish a new practice.

The reason I didn't refer you to the position paper is that your OP asked "what is done". I didn't need to refer you to a 40+ page document to tell you what we did. Of course, what we did and what we should have been doing, based on our beliefs, were rather inconsistent with one another. Hence the interesting twist this conversation took -- at least for me.

Reminded of Jamie Smith:

Why the Form of Worship Matters: A Conversation with James K. A. Smith – Trevin Wax

I grew up Methodist - we had communion once a month - I always scurried down to the kitchen quickly for left-over Welch's grape juice.

(THis was as a child, mind you)

The grape juice was served in little plastic jiggers which fitted down into slots on these big round platters. Several platters per service.

I knew the Church Janitor very well (I went every sunday) and I immediately got a big glass out of the cupboard and poured all the leftover jiggers into it and made me a huge glass of Welch's grape juice - janitor didn't care that I consumed the leftover juice

The "bread" was rock-hard wafers that I didn't care much for - but one sunday my sister ate a WHOLE HANDFUL OF THEM!

"I do earnestly repent, and am heartily sorry for these Eucharistic sins of commission, the remembrance of them is - well, frankly humorous!"

Oh - the janitor washed the cups with soap and water - put 'em away for next month. I washed my own big glass after drinkin the grape juice and put it back in the cupboard.

Anto9us said:

"I do earnestly repent, and am heartily sorry for these Eucharistic sins of commission, the remembrance of them is - well, frankly humorous!"

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Anto9us, for absolution go and say 10 Hail Wesleys and sing "Come, Sinners To The Gospel Feast."

Anto9us said:

I grew up Methodist - we had communion once a month - I always scurried down to the kitchen quickly for left-over Welch's grape juice.

(THis was as a child, mind you)

The grape juice was served in little plastic jiggers which fitted down into slots on these big round platters. Several platters per service.

I knew the Church Janitor very well (I went every sunday) and I immediately got a big glass out of the cupboard and poured all the leftover jiggers into it and made me a huge glass of Welch's grape juice - janitor didn't care that I consumed the leftover juice

The "bread" was rock-hard wafers that I didn't care much for - but one sunday my sister ate a WHOLE HANDFUL OF THEM!

"I do earnestly repent, and am heartily sorry for these Eucharistic sins of commission, the remembrance of them is - well, frankly humorous!"

Oh - the janitor washed the cups with soap and water - put 'em away for next month. I washed my own big glass after drinkin the grape juice and put it back in the cupboard.

Click to expand...

I always drank some of the left over grape juice. I was hungry!

We always threw away the little cups.

FundiMentalist said:

The last two Sundays my Evangelical pastor (who is undergoing significant multi-year transformation of his faith) somehow mentioned Real Presence. This last Sunday he mentioned Zwingli being more exceptional among the early Reformers.

After communion, everybody [else] was full of emotion, singing away:

"I love your Presence."

I just silently stood there--in feeling of isolation--looking at and into the contents of the cup, knowing it would be in the city sewer in a few moments.

I wondered about ecclesiology, intentionality of living, how the sacred infuses into this world, and whether or not there is any sort of Kingdom of God and how it might advance. Perhaps mostly I pondered what I'd think if it were my blood there.

I thought I'd ask a few Methodists about this because I had found a reference to Rob Staples' Outward Sign and Inward Grace: The Place of Sacraments in Wesleyan Spirituality that seems to describe some sort of reversion of the elements from a consecrated status or state. (I've yet to explore how or why such would be or be believed...)

Church-going has lots of these moments that I don't understand. Thanks for entertaining my questions and helping me learn.

Click to expand...

I love that book. I found it extremely helpful in sorting out my thoughts and questions, which were similar to yours. Zwingli's approach to communion [memorial] doesn't work for me anymore. I need sacredness in my worship and calling communion a memorial didn't provide that. But when I view communion as being the real presence of Jesus, it feeds my soul.

Anto9us said:

I grew up Methodist - we had communion once a month - I always scurried down to the kitchen quickly for left-over Welch's grape juice.

(THis was as a child, mind you)

The grape juice was served in little plastic jiggers which fitted down into slots on these big round platters. Several platters per service.

I knew the Church Janitor very well (I went every sunday) and I immediately got a big glass out of the cupboard and poured all the leftover jiggers into it and made me a huge glass of Welch's grape juice - janitor didn't care that I consumed the leftover juice

The "bread" was rock-hard wafers that I didn't care much for - but one sunday my sister ate a WHOLE HANDFUL OF THEM!

"I do earnestly repent, and am heartily sorry for these Eucharistic sins of commission, the remembrance of them is - well, frankly humorous!"

Oh - the janitor washed the cups with soap and water - put 'em away for next month. I washed my own big glass after drinkin the grape juice and put it back in the cupboard.

Click to expand...

I love the story of a janitor and child. From what I understand of Jesus, this may not be too far from how he saw the sacred.

Being a child was EASIER, Fundimentalist.

All that grape juice once a month - nice!

And though the regular wafers were too hard - at CAMP or on Sunrise Services at the park - they used a REAL LOAF OF BREAD - you could get as much as you could tear off with one hand!

There was one hymn called "Stand up, Stand up for Jesus!" and the congregation was SITTING DOWN while singing it - which I thought was wrong so I STOOD UP and stayed standing up through all 4 verses.

I didn't know I was an Arminian as a child.

And I had never heard of Dispensational Premillennialism or Partial Preterism.