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Whatever Happened to Forever?

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Zao is life

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.. and unfortunately those with whom the covenant was made BROKE the covenant repeatedly and by their disobedience and unfaithfulness turned it into a sign between God and them FOREVER that they would no longer have a covenant with God based on this Law and these commandments - but only on their faith in the righteousness of Christ and in His blood:

Exo 24:7-8 "And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD has said will we do, and be obedient.

And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD has made with you concerning all these words."

Jer 31:31-32 "Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, says the LORD."

Mat 26:28 "For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."

"Though I was a husband unto them" is the same as saying that though God remained faithful to His vows, the "wife" had continuously been unfaithful, and had therefore broken the covenant - and so their new moons, sabbaths and feasts became utterly distasteful to God, to the point that God even calls Israel "Sodom and Gomorrah":

Isa 1:10-14 "Hear the word of the LORD, all of you rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, all of you people of Gomorrah.

To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? says the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

When all of you come to appear before me, who has required this at your hand, to tread my courts?

Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting. Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hates: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them."

So they turned their sabbath-keeping into a sign between them and God FOREVER that this covenant with all its commandments is gone forever:

 
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HARK!

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(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

You can relax. Earth is still here.
 
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Zao is life

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(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of the law to fall.

.. and Christ has forever fulfilled the Law on behalf of all the sons of Adam whosoever will believe in Him, who could not do so themselves, Jew and Gentile alike

You can relax. The earth is still here.
 
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HARK!

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.. and Christ has forever fulfilled the Law on behalf of all the sons of Adam whosoever will believe in Him, who could not do so themselves, Jew and Gentile alike

You can relax. The earth is still here.

Don't get too comfortable.

Yahshua is calling you to follow in his footsteps.

(CLV) Ro 8:4
that the just requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who are not walking in accord with flesh, but in accord with spirit.
 
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expos4ever

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I have numerous verses from multiple prophets which sate that the Levitical Priesthood, and the sacrifices will be in the Kingdom to come.
First of all, even if your interpretation of those verses is solid, which I greatly doubt, you still have not addressed my argument which is that the very Hebrew word ("owlam") that you depend on so heavily to have translated as "forever" need not necessarily mean "forever". Again:

And here we have an example from Isaiah 42 of this same word used in a context where eternality is certainly not intended:

The LORD emerges like a hero,
like a warrior he inspires himself for battle;
he shouts, yes, he yells,
he shows his enemies his power.
I have been inactive for a long time;
I kept quiet and held back.
Like a woman in labor I groan;
I pant and gasp.
I will make the trees on the mountains and hills wither up;
I will dry up all their vegetation.
I will turn streams into islands,
and dry up pools of water.


No more evasion please. Now then: Given that here, at least, "owlam" is translated as "for a long time", what argument do you offer for translating "owlam" as "forever" in other verses?
 
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This was addressed twice on page one. I'll address it once again, special, just for you.


New International Version
It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.'"

New Living Translation
It is a permanent sign of my covenant with the people of Israel. For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day he stopped working and was refreshed.’”

English Standard Version
It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’”

Berean Study Bible
It is a sign between Me and the Israelites forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, but on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’”

New American Standard Bible
"It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed."

New King James Version
It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’ ”

King James Bible
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Christian Standard Bible
It is a sign forever between me and the Israelites, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, but on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed."

Contemporary English Version
This day will always serve as a reminder, both to me and to the Israelites, that I made the heavens and the earth in six days, then on the seventh day I rested and relaxed.

Good News Translation
It is a permanent sign between the people of Israel and me, because I, the LORD, made heaven and earth in six days, and on the seventh day I stopped working and rested."

Holman Christian Standard Bible
It is a sign forever between Me and the Israelites, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, but on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed."

International Standard Version
It is a sign forever between me and the Israelis, because the LORD made the heavens and the earth in six days, but on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.'"

NET Bible
It is a sign between me and the Israelites forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.'"

New Heart English Bible
It is a sign between me and the people of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.'"

GOD'S WORD® Translation
It will be a permanent sign between me and the Israelites, because the LORD made heaven and earth in six days, and on the seventh day he stopped working and was refreshed.'"

JPS Tanakh 1917
It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel for ever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He ceased from work and rested.'

New American Standard 1977
“It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day He ceased from labor, and was refreshed.”

King James 2000 Bible
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel forever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

American King James Version
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

American Standard Version
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days Jehovah made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Brenton Septuagint Translation
It is a perpetual covenant with me and the children of Israel, it is a perpetual sign with me; for in six days the Lord made the heaven and the earth, and on the seventh day he ceased, and rested.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Between me and the children of Israel, and a perpetual sign. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and in the seventh he ceased from work.

Darby Bible Translation
It shall be a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever; for [in] six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

English Revised Version
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Webster's Bible Translation
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.

World English Bible
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days Yahweh made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.'"
 
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visionary

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I agree I agree again I agree again Now that is not HIS FEASTS nor HIS NEW MOONS nor HIS SABBATHS for He can not abhor that which is HIS. It is their way of doing things, their thinking regarding the keeping of them and the purpose behind it that He abhors.
So they turned their sabbath-keeping into a sign between them and God FOREVER that this covenant with all its commandments is gone forever:
They didn't turn Sabbath keeping into a sign between them and God, that is God's doing.
Exodus 31:13
Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.
 
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Zao is life

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Don't get too comfortable.
Yahshua is calling you to follow in his footsteps.
(CLV) Ro 8:4
that the just requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who are not walking in accord with flesh, but in accord with spirit.

Believing that you need to please God by obeying laws that are forever broken due to the flesh being incapable of observing those laws IS walking according to the flesh. Trusting in Jesus the Christ and HIS righteousness is walking according to the Spirit.

Jesus is calling us to walk in His footsteps:

Matt 10:38 "And he who does not take up his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me."

1Pet 2:21 "For you were not called to this? For Christ also suffered on our behalf, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps,

He who did no sin, nor was guile found in His mouth, who when He was reviled did not revile in return. When He suffered, He did not threaten, but gave Himself up to Him who judges righteously. He Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that dying to sins, we might live to righteousness; by whose stripes you were healed."
 
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Zao is life

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It was God's doing but in that they continuously disobeyed the law and its commandments they turned it into a sign FOREVER that this Law and its commandments together with the covenant which is based on it is gone FOREVER - the blood of that covenant which ratified that sabbath commandment having been FOREVER replaced by the blood of Christ.
 
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HARK!

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This is What Yahshua's disciple says:

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

This is what Yahshua says:

(CLV) Jn 14:15
If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.

This is what YHWH says:

From Decalogue
(CLV) Ex 20:6
yet showing benignity to thousands, to those loving Me and observing My instructions.

What do you say?
 
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visionary

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According to the "flesh", you are correct. But like you said we are to live righteously according to the Spirit, trusting in Yeshua and His righteousness. Following in His footsteps, breaking none of God's laws.
 
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expos4ever

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.. and Christ has forever fulfilled the Law on behalf of all the sons of Adam whosoever will believe in Him, who could not do so themselves, Jew and Gentile alike

You can relax. The earth is still here.
Many do not understand how, or refuse to believe that, Jews used the language of cosmic collapse as a metaphor for sociopolitical change: such texts were never intended to be taken literally.

Example: Isaiah writes:

10For the stars of heaven and their constellations
Will not flash forth their light;
The sun will be dark when it rises
And the moon will not shed its light


What was going on? Look at the context - Babylon was being destroyed, never to be rebuilt. No stars fell. And the moon was not darkened.

More evidence for this line of reasoning can be provided. But the bottom line for the present discussion is this: when Jesus says that the Law will last until "heaven and earth pass away", he is not necessarily declaring the Law of Moses will last until heaven and earth literally pass away.

Our opponents in this discussion will no doubt protest with great vigour. But the evidence is there: this language is very likely not to be taken literally.
 
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Zao is life

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What did Jesus say are His precepts? It's in the New Testament and I've already quoted Jesus' own words over and over. You ignore it and refuse to believe Jesus. The Sabbath was not one of them. The new moons and appointed feast days were not part of them. Stoning women caught in adultery was not on of them. What are His precepts? He told His disciples what they are, and His disciples repeated them to us. He took all the Law and commandments and summed them up, and then in a nutshell said, "Do that".

I even told you how He said we would obey His only precepts.

PS: Keeping sabbath is not one of them.
 
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Zao is life

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According to the "flesh", you are correct. But like you said we are to live righteously according to the Spirit, trusting in Yeshua and His righteousness. Following in His footsteps, breaking none of God's laws.

What you are talking about are not God's laws but the Laws of Moses which formed part the basis of the old covenant which has been forever replaced. You will continue to break all God's laws if you retain that mindset.

Matt 22:40 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets:

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself." (Mat 22:37-39)

"Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who despitefully use you and persecute you," (Mat 5:44)

"I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. As I have loved you, you should also love one another." John 13:34

Jesus did not tell us to observe the sabbath - not even once. Neither did His apostles.

Why? It's because Christ, the Lord of the sabbath, is our sabbath, and He is Lord of the sabbath.

Why do so many Christians INSIST on adding to the commandments/precepts of Christ when not even His apostles added to them?
 
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Scott Husted

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In a lot of ways this thread shows that the law was written to reveal our nakedness (because it was never really about the law as much as it was about our soul), a pattern you see in a woman which Jerusalem is a picture of; something relative to every individual's soul, like a law that goes forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem, as the truth of this well springing up, a law or narrative of we drink of, a river of life; this is the law of our mind.
 
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Zao is life

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Yes, I agree. This is totally true. The prophets used the "language" of prose and poetry that was filled with imagery. If Christians understand this, not one will have a problem with the fact that Jesus calls Himself the morning star in the Revelation yet the king of Babylon was also called "shining star, son of the morning" when his fall was being prophesied by Isaiah (Isa 14:12).
 
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Zao is life

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King James Bible
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Jesus is the Word that proceeded out of the mouth of God. Leave Moses alone. He was not allowed to enter into the promised land. He perished in the same wilderness you are in now, spiritually.
 
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visionary

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What you are talking about are not God's laws but the Laws of Moses which formed part the basis of the old covenant which has been forever replaced. You will continue to break all God's laws if you retain that mindset.
Who thundered the Laws from on high? Moses?? Whose finger was it that wrote it in stone? Moses?? Is Yeshua our Creator and Redeemer??

Creator..
Ex 2:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Redeemer...
Deut 5:12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee. 13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: 14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
Why? It's because Christ, the Lord of the sabbath, is our sabbath, and He is Lord of the sabbath.

Why do so many Christians INSIST on adding to the commandments/precepts of Christ when not even His apostles added to them?
How can apostles and Yeshua add to that which is already there and they kept?
 
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