What would you say?

[stumpjumper]

There are many scenarios where this question would apply:

What would you say to your child when they have told you they are gay?

What would you say to a fellow Christian who has just come out as being gay?

What would you say to a non-Christian who is gay that wants to know about Christianity?

Should they be told that God does not create sinners, that they are not really gay, or that they should come back when they are straight to ask questions about the Christian religion?

Can we pray with them?

I would like to, at least, start there: with prayer. I need a lot of prayer and all of you are welcome to add me and my various issues to your prayer list.

Anyway, I've thought about this for a bit today and I would like to think I would say that God loves us even though we may all be sinners. I can not confess and repent for the sins of another nor can I either name or convict the sins of another as that is a job for either oneself or a person greater than us all. I would like to also say to these various people that there are various paths in this life and that we can add to God's plan and build God's kingdom in different ways.

We do not all have the same path in front of us and we do not all build God's kingdom via the same work. Not all of us need to be procreative, celibate and penniless servants, or, even, professed Christians to build God's kingdom. Even in the Bible, God used people outside of the ancient covenant.

Anyway, what would you say?

Would you condemn? Would you dialogue? Would you walk away?

I can do none other than express the love that I believe God shows for all of creation...

 

[Texas Lynn]

There are many scenarios where this question would apply:

What would you say to your child when they have told you they are gay?

About the same thing as when they came out as straight I guess.

What would you say to a fellow Christian who has just come out as being gay?

It would depend on the particular faith tradition I would imagine, but if given an opening I would discuss the variances of the various faith traditions on the issue and if appropriate speak favorably of the Mainline denominations and reconciling churches. If it was an individual from a Catholic or a fundamentalist/evangelical tradition I would possibly mention the difficulty of maintaining that affiliation while being true to oneself, possibly mentioning the gay Catholic group, Dignity, for the Catholic ones, or, the Metropolitan Community Church for those of evangelical bent. For those who eschew churches but consider themselves simply nonaffiliated Christians I would attempt to be realistic, hopeful, and encouraging.

What would you say to a non-Christian who is gay that wants to know about Christianity?

Some variation of the same as the above, perhaps proceeding as they wish not unlike how we proceed in client-centered therapy, "starting where the client is" in a sense.

Should they be told that God does not create sinners, that they are not really gay, or that they should come back when they are straight to ask questions about the Christian religion?

No.

Can we pray with them?

Depending upon the milleau and with their consent, sure.

I would like to, at least, start there: with prayer. I need a lot of prayer and all of you are welcome to add me and my various issues to your prayer list.

Anyway, I've thought about this for a bit today and I would like to think I would say that God loves us even though we may all be sinners. I can not confess and repent for the sins of another nor can I either name or convict the sins of another as that is a job for either oneself or a person greater than us all. I would like to also say to these various people that there are various paths in this life and that we can add to God's plan and build God's kingdom in different ways.

We do not all have the same path in front of us and we do not all build God's kingdom via the same work. Not all of us need to be procreative, celibate and penniless servants, or, even, professed Christians to build God's kingdom. Even in the Bible, God used people outside of the ancient covenant.

No disagreement; very well stated.

Anyway, what would you say?

As I said above, letting the other person take the lead mostly.

Would you condemn? Would you dialogue? Would you walk away?

No, yes, and no.

I can do none other than express the love that I believe God shows for all of creation...

Nor I.

 

[Joykins]

Anyway, I've thought about this for a bit today and I would like to think I would say that God loves us even though we may all be sinners. I can not confess and repent for the sins of another nor can I either name or convict the sins of another as that is a job for either oneself or a person greater than us all. I would like to also say to these various people that there are various paths in this life and that we can add to God's plan and build God's kingdom in different ways.

We do not all have the same path in front of us and we do not all build God's kingdom via the same work. Not all of us need to be procreative, celibate and penniless servants, or, even, professed Christians to build God's kingdom. Even in the Bible, God used people outside of the ancient covenant.

What you say is very wise and very Biblical and reflects many of the same conclusions I have also come to.

Anyway, what would you say?

Would you condemn? Would you dialogue? Would you walk away?

I can do none other than express the love that I believe God shows for all of creation...

I do know I can't and am not supposed to work out how someone else's sexuality plays into their relationship with God. As a mother/sister/friend I would of course make sure the person knows I still love them and accept them the way they are, and I want to encourage them to walk as closely with God as is possible.

 

[IamRedeemed]

No two situations or people are the same where you might be presented. To sit here and say I would have a prepared answer no matter who is standing before me or why they are standing before me just because in each scenario the common ground is that they are all saying they are gay, doesn't mean how they came to that determination is the same either and it would be disingenuous to determine a presumed response. Just as with anyone else, whom I would be offering spiritual counsel, I would do and say as the Holy Spirit leads in each individual circumstance.

Prayer would absolutely be offered.

Now ask me what I would do if someone came up in my grill at the Church office and demanded that I accept that God ordains gay marriage and that gay is okay with God and proceeds to tell me they don't want to hear any supposed Word of God and if I don't accept their "truth", then I am a hateful, fascist, bigot?

Different story. The law is for the proud, grace is for the humble.
For God resists the proud but offers grace to the humble.

God bless

There are many scenarios where this question would apply:

What would you say to your child when they have told you they are gay?

What would you say to a fellow Christian who has just come out as being gay?

What would you say to a non-Christian who is gay that wants to know about Christianity?

Should they be told that God does not create sinners, that they are not really gay, or that they should come back when they are straight to ask questions about the Christian religion?

Can we pray with them?

I would like to, at least, start there: with prayer. I need a lot of prayer and all of you are welcome to add me and my various issues to your prayer list.

Anyway, I've thought about this for a bit today and I would like to think I would say that God loves us even though we may all be sinners. I can not confess and repent for the sins of another nor can I either name or convict the sins of another as that is a job for either oneself or a person greater than us all. I would like to also say to these various people that there are various paths in this life and that we can add to God's plan and build God's kingdom in different ways.

We do not all have the same path in front of us and we do not all build God's kingdom via the same work. Not all of us need to be procreative, celibate and penniless servants, or, even, professed Christians to build God's kingdom. Even in the Bible, God used people outside of the ancient covenant.

Anyway, what would you say?

Would you condemn? Would you dialogue? Would you walk away?

I can do none other than express the love that I believe God shows for all of creation...

 

[stumpjumper]

No two situations or people are the same where you might be presented. To sit here and say I would have a prepared answer no matter who is standing before me or why they are standing before me just because in each scenario the common ground is that they are all saying they are gay, doesn't mean how they came to that determination is the same either and it would be disingenuous to determine a presumed response. Just as with anyone else, whom I would be offering spiritual counsel, I would do and say as the Holy Spirit leads in each individual circumstance.

Prayer would absolutely be offered.

I think that's very true but do you think maybe you could speculate?

I enjoy thought experiments from time to time and many times they help me grow and express myself better in my walk.

Would you could you say that God loves them even as they are and does not withhold that love until they are where they ought to be?

I heard Brennan Manning live at Ocean City Tabernacle one year (I got to shake his hand) and that was a very powerful message that reached me a good 6 or 7 years ago.

He said: "Jesus loves you as you are even though you are not where you should be". The love and grace that reaches us now moves us along and brings us closer to where we ought to be, IMO.

Now ask me what I would do if someone came up in my grill at the Church office and demanded that I accept that God ordains gay marriage and that gay is okay with God and proceeds to tell me they don't want to hear any supposed Word of God and if I don't accept their "truth", then I am a hateful, fascist, bigot?

I didn't say that nor do I think that...

Different story. The law is for the proud, grace is for the humble.
For God resists the proud but offers grace to the humble.

God bless

Pretty sure he offers grace to us all

It is up to us to accept or reject that grace and when we accept it that grace is transformational...

 

[david_x]

What would you say to a non-Christian who is gay that wants to know about Christianity?

It makes no difference if a "non-Christian" is gay. We don't judge those outside the church.

What would you say to a fellow Christian who has just come out as being gay?

If they do not try to change they should be thrown out. Those who show disregard for the Word do not belong in His church.

Those who become Christians are shaken to the very foundation. Prostitutes leave there profession, tax collecters leave or go bankrupt giving there money back (just guessing). Bottom line people need to change what they are.

On a side note i think that it is strange that we argue about sex so much. If we really wanted to be like Christ and His diciples would it not be best if we were celebit. (Ahh i just graduated and i still can't spell!)

 

[onemessiah]

It makes no difference if a "non-Christian" is gay. We don't judge those outside the church.



If they do not try to change they should be thrown out. Those who show disregard for the Word do not belong in His church.

Those who become Christians are shaken to the very foundation. Prostitutes leave there profession, tax collecters leave or go bankrupt giving there money back (just guessing). Bottom line people need to change what they are.

On a side note i think that it is strange that we argue about sex so much. If we really wanted to be like Christ and His diciples would it not be best if we were celebit. (Ahh i just graduated and i still can't spell!)

How do you

try to change

your sexual orientation?

 

[Criada]

It makes no difference if a "non-Christian" is gay. We don't judge those outside the church.



If they do not try to change they should be thrown out. Those who show disregard for the Word do not belong in His church.

Those who become Christians are shaken to the very foundation. Prostitutes leave there profession, tax collecters leave or go bankrupt giving there money back (just guessing). Bottom line people need to change what they are.

On a side note i think that it is strange that we argue about sex so much. If we really wanted to be like Christ and His diciples would it not be best if we were celebit. (Ahh i just graduated and i still can't spell!)

However, we don't all become perfect as soon as we are saved.... that is a process that won't be finished until we are in heaven.

And... whilst Christ was celibate, what makes you think that His disciples were? Simon Peter was presumably married, since Jesus healed his mother-in-law!

 

[stumpjumper]

simul iustus et peccator ~ Martin Luther

 

[jamielindas]

Now ask me what I would do if someone came up in my grill at the Church office and demanded that I accept that God ordains gay marriage and that gay is okay with God and proceeds to tell me they don't want to hear any supposed Word of God and if I don't accept their "truth", then I am a hateful, fascist, bigot?

You seem to be responding to something that isn't in the OP..

 

[jamielindas]

It makes no difference if a "non-Christian" is gay. We don't judge those outside the church.

I wish! If this is truly the case, I think you might have some work ahead of you.
As a 'non-christian' i get a lot of judgment and comments regarding how gays are the downfall of society, that gays caused this earthquake or that storm. There are many believers that seem to be blaming and judging homosexuals (regardless of their beliefs).

I get it and I'm fine with the fact that you don't want homosexuals in your church because it conflicts with your beliefs. However, we're still human beings and citizens of our respective countries and cannot be denied the rights afforded to all its other citizens.
(wow, now I'M off topic!)

 

[Texas Lynn]

How do you try to change your sexual orientation?

Unsuccessfully.

 

[Criada]

Unsuccessfully.

yup!

 

[jamielindas]

Unsuccessfully.

From what I've read on this site and a few others, it seems the desires don't really ever go away. They learn to control themselves and stay celibate (with the same sex) or force themselves to accept heterosexual sex, despite it not being the preference. My opinion; they sound frustrated and sad, which reminds me too much of the horrible years I spent in the closet, denying my sexuality.

 

[david_x]

How do you

try to change
​

your sexual orientation?

IDK yet. It's not easy that is for sure.

However, we don't all become perfect as soon as we are saved.... that is a process that won't be finished until we are in heaven.

Not perfect but changed, shaken to the very core.

And... whilst Christ was celibate, what makes you think that His disciples were? Simon Peter was presumably married, since Jesus healed his mother-in-law!

There are verses that state a christian should stay celebit unless he/she is absolutly not able to.

 

[david_x]

I wish! If this is truly the case, I think you might have some work ahead of you.
As a 'non-christian' i get a lot of judgment and comments regarding how gays are the downfall of society, that gays caused this earthquake or that storm. There are many believers that seem to be blaming and judging homosexuals (regardless of their beliefs).

I get it and I'm fine with the fact that you don't want homosexuals in your church because it conflicts with your beliefs. However, we're still human beings and citizens of our respective countries and cannot be denied the rights afforded to all its other cit

I know there is a verse you could use to correct my siblings but for the life of me i can not recall it. (so much for hiding his word in my heart )

From what I've read on this site and a few others, it seems the desires don't really ever go away. They learn to control themselves and stay celibate (with the same sex) or force themselves to accept heterosexual sex, despite it not being the preference. My opinion; they sound frustrated and sad, which reminds me too much of the horrible years I spent in the closet, denying my sex

Perception is everything. The desires will probiably never go away but for a Christian that does not matter. We can learn to deal with a great many things. Ever seen "A Beautiful Mind."?

It is a battle that becomes easier over time. The more you fall the more you learn about getting up.

 

[Texas Lynn]

From what I've read on this site and a few others, it seems the desires don't really ever go away. They learn to control themselves and stay celibate (with the same sex) or force themselves to accept heterosexual sex, despite it not being the preference. My opinion; they sound frustrated and sad, which reminds me too much of the horrible years I spent in the closet, denying my sexuality.

Agreed. The sadness is exacerbated by the reality that there's no necessity at all to take such steps.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

What would you say to your child when they have told you they are gay?
(I would ask them what they want me to do about it.)

What would you say to a fellow Christian who has just come out as being gay?
(That I will pray for them, and relate to them my own sexual dysfunctions in the hopes of comforting them, but people don't usually confide in me.)

What would you say to a non-Christian who is gay that wants to know about Christianity? (What would you like to know? I'll answer whatever I can.)

Should they be told that God does not create sinners, that they are not really gay, or that they should come back when they are straight to ask questions about the Christian religion? (No, they can ask right now, TODAY is the day of salvation!)

Can we pray with them? (We can pray for them, if anything.)

Don't lose hope.

 

[Phinehas2]

What would you say to your child when they have told you they are gay?

They are not likely to say this, they would probably say they have same-sex attractions.

What would you say to a fellow Christian who has just come out as being gay?

They cant be gay and Christian.

What would you say to a non-Christian who is gay that wants to know about Christianity?

God loves them. I would tell them the gospel.

Should they be told that God does not create sinners, that they are not really gay, or that they should come back when they are straight to ask questions about the Christian religion?

God doesn’t create straights or gays, He created male and female to be in union.

Can we pray with them?

We here cant pray very easily because we don’t all agree with the word of God about this.

I can do none other than express the love that I believe God shows for all of creation...

What love is He showing for all creation. God so loved the world that He gave His only Son so that whoever believes shall not perish but have eternal life.
The love that God is showing to us is Jesus Christ who has a made to eternal life for us.

 

[stumpjumper]

They are not likely to say this, they would probably say they have same-sex attractions.

I highly doubt they would say that since people with same-sex attractions generally call themselves, well, "gay". It's a pretty standard word actually.

They cant be gay and Christian.

Sure you can, actually. There are plenty of gay Christians that refute this above statement of yours so maybe you just haven't met any in real life.

You don't live a sheltered life, do you?

The passage you are using to show that none of us have any differentiation in Christ Jesus is being used incorrectly. I don't, all of a sudden, stop being a 33 year old heterosexual male, Lutheran, husband, father, free, American citizen because I am a Christian.

What St. Paul was saying was that in Christ Jesus these distinctions do not separate us and that God's love is for all of us regardless of our race, nationality, sex, etc.

So, yes, you can be gay and be Christian. You can also be divorced and be Christian. You can also be female, a slanderer, a gossiper, etc and be a Christian.

That does not mean that all of those categories or actions are aspects of our selves that are in accordance with God's will but I have, YET, to meet a sinless person and I'm pretty sure only one ever walked the earth.

Are you without sin, Phinehas2?

God loves them.

Indeed.

I would tell them the gospel.

What is the Gospel?

God doesn’t create straights or gays, He created male and female to be in union.

Perhaps male/female union is one of our purposes, but God still creates straights and gays. Gay people, then, would simply not be fulfilling one of our purposes in the same manner that celibates, divorced people, widowers, or children are not fulfilling that purpose.

We here cant pray very easily because we don’t all agree with the word of God about this.

You can't pray with people you disagree with??

That's sad, really. Are you unable to pray with Christians of a different denomination as well?

What love is He showing for all creation. God so loved the world that He gave His only Son so that whoever believes shall not perish but have eternal life.
The love that God is showing to us is Jesus Christ...

I agree.