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I like to think of the default position as "atheist." The atheist is no more convinced that there isn't a god than a theist is convinced there is.
But the one making the claim that there is a god is the one who needs to offer supporting evidence. The atheist does not because he simply doesn't believe the claims theists are making.
I'm my opinion, it is the simplest and most obvious position to take on theism.
Metaphysics is philosophy, not science.
I think Agnosticism is the default position, because there's a fundamental lack of knowedge to begin with. "New Atheism" tries to include Agnosticism under its banner with the modern definition of "lack of belief", but this is a very new interpretation of Atheism, and an extremely broad one at that.
In the end, labels don't matter.
The word "atheist" is a stupid word anyway. It doesn't tell you anything. It's a word that describes what you don't believe. It's what you do believe that matters. So identifying someone by what they don't believe is rather hollow.
In the end, labels don't matter.
The word "atheist" is a stupid word anyway. It doesn't tell you anything. It's a word that describes what you don't believe. It's what you do believe that matters. So identifying someone by what they don't believe is rather hollow.
Question for the group: If you are an atheist, what would it take to convince you that there truly is "something" rather than "nothing"?
Or is it possible? (I have a feeling that some loathe the concept of God so much, they could watch the seas part & they would STILL find a reason to doubt.....)
No, it doesn't work like that with any faith, or lack there of. It is the same argument claiming Hitler was a Christian because he was from a Catholic family - ignoring that unrepentant murderers cannot call themselves Christian because they arent.
It is sinister to try to pull anyone from their faith, especially through incredulity and ridicule. If it makes you uncomfortable I don't know what to tell you.
I think Agnosticism is the default position, because there's a fundamental lack of knowedge to begin with. "New Atheism" tries to include Agnosticism under its banner with the modern definition of "lack of belief", but this is a very new interpretation of Atheism, and an extremely broad one at that.
Much of our known science is open to philosophical interpretations, especially when dealing with vague and abstract concepts like the true nature of reality. Discoveries in quantum mechanics have actually made some physicists kill themselves over the implications.
In the end, labels don't matter.
The word "atheist" is a stupid word anyway. It doesn't tell you anything. It's a word that describes what you don't believe. It's what you do believe that matters. So identifying someone by what they don't believe is rather hollow.
Timmy is a human.
Timmy is a murderer.
Therefore, all humans are murderers.
No, it doesn't work like that with any faith, or lack there of. It is the same argument claiming Hitler was a Christian because he was from a Catholic family - ignoring that unrepentant murderers cannot call themselves Christian because they arent. If the rules of being a follower of Fonziism means I have to sacrifice a leather jacket every day, and I dont, then I am just someone posing as a Fonz.
SOME Evangelicals, and whomever else, may have missed the memo that you do not bash the faith into heads, or outwardly force a conversion. We plant a seed, them move on. Indeed, some will even ask the person if they want to hear, because everyone is responsible for the information they use, or do not use. It is sinister to try to pull anyone from their faith, especially through incredulity and ridicule. If it makes you uncomfortable I don't know what to tell you.
The general rule by which people judge whether someone is a Christian or not is whether they believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. Whatever else they happen to believe, or however else they choose to behave, is immaterial to that point. If they acknowledge belief in Christ, they are a Christian.
James 2:19-26Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Matt 7:21-23Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
1 John 4:20If a man say, “I love God,” and hateth his brother, he is a liar. For he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
John 14:15-17If ye love me, keep my commandments.
And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 18:18-22.And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
How is this any different from what the atheists you call "sinister" do? We too plant a seed and then move on. If it's not sinister when evangelicals do it to people of other faiths (or no faith at all), then why would it be sinister when atheists do it?
And, once again I will continue to stand by my comment that anyone who has the intention of making someone lose their faith, or renounce it for their own argumentative faith alignment is sinister. Especially if that coercion comes from ridicule, disdain, scoffing and incredulity.
That is what people who do not follow the faith believe, what has been the standard of the world, and the box Christianity is put into. By the is logic, someone like Hitler would be a Christian, or even some non-Christians. It is a simplistic pigeonhole perpetuated by the ignorance and lack of understanding by both believers and nonbelievers of the world. It is also easy to see why so many are confused as to "how God would allow a murderer who just asks for forgiveness into heaven, but makes a 'good' non believer burn for 'eternity.'" Christ, and the prophets are clear on what makes a (wo)man of God: that is the standard.
Hmm..
So all atheists are genocidal, amoral hedonists that take pleasure in destroying the faith of people who believe a deity?
No, actually that's always been the definition of Atheism (A-theism = Without Theism)
The default position for any claim is non belief until the claim is proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
Hmm..
So all atheists are genocidal, amoral hedonists that take pleasure in destroying the faith of people who believe a deity?
Atheism means "without god" or "to deny the gods". To say "without Theism" is only translating the word halfway, and would technically include Deism. Which is obviously ridiculous.
That is what people who do not follow the faith believe, what has been the standard of the world, and the box Christianity is put into. By the is logic, someone like Hitler would be a Christian, or even some non-Christians.
It is a simplistic pigeonhole perpetuated by the ignorance and lack of understanding by both believers and nonbelievers of the world. It is also easy to see why so many are confused as to "how God would allow a murderer who just asks for forgiveness into heaven, but makes a 'good' non believer burn for 'eternity.'" Christ, and the prophets are clear on what makes a (wo)man of God: that is the standard.
James 2:19-26
Matt 7:21-23
1 John 4:20
John 14:15-17
John 18:18-22.
This is all in addition to being born of a human female's womb, and again spiritually through belief and faith in Christ, and His sacrifice and resurrection. You cannot just "acknowledge" or "believe that He is the son of God;" that is a worldly misunderstanding and traditional thought that is not reflective of the word of God. Both believer and non believer are fully of this folly sometimes.
This time, I will quote myself. If you still don't get it, then that is on you.
If you are a Christian, and you intentionally try to make people LOSE their faith in their religion with a barrage of incredulous, disdainful, insulting and ridiculous comments, (and continue to pass it off as logic or debate especially,) then that is sinister. The context and difference is a mental, psychological, verbal or physical assault. Westboro Baptist Church does sinister things.
So, I would consider anyone who demeans, or marginalized someone else's faith with an arsenal of mental, physical, psychological and/or verbal darts sinister -especially if done to vindicate one's own faith. It is vain and a form of mind control. Call out the hypocrites, but stop ignorantly making blanketed statements, ignoring context and what people say who actually subscribe to the faith you don't believe in. And, keep in minds I am also talking about action. This is my third time explain this.
And, try to realize that if you are going to argue something you really do not believe in, at least be knowledgeable on what you are talking about. Each human is a individual; God does not respect persons, but faith and obedience. If x-group does not follow the bible, the you cannot say the whole lot is guilty of those transgressions, and it would be asinine to assign perpetual it to individuals.
Then you will understand how your reply doesn't apply. If the exact blue print is written, and you diverge from it, then it isn't genuine to the design. Four white side stripes on a shoe is not an Addidas Shoe, no matter how much it looks like one.
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