What would it take to disprove atheism?

Feldon · Jul 8, 2014

Question for the group: If you are an atheist, what would it take to convince you that there truly is "something" rather than "nothing"?

Or is it possible? (I have a feeling that some loathe the concept of God so much, they could watch the seas part & they would STILL find a reason to doubt.....)

keith99 · Jul 8, 2014

Not believing in God does not mean I believe there is nothing.

There are many beautiful and wondrous things out there, far more than are imagined in your theology.

Golden Yak · Jul 8, 2014

Feldon said:
Question for the group: If you are an atheist, what would it take to convince you that there truly is "something" rather than "nothing"?

Disproving atheism would involve demonstrating that god/s actually exist.

As to how that would be accomplished - good question. Different people might have different standards of evidence for what will convince them. Personal experience seems to convince a lot of people - for myself though, I'd suspect visions, dreams, feelings, and the like as being delusions, hallucinations, or some other phenomenon that a suggestible human being is mistakenly interpreting as a deity.

Certainly though, an all-powerful all-knowing deity would know the answer as to how to convince mortals of its existence.

Or is it possible? (I have a feeling that some loathe the concept of God so much, they could watch the seas part & they would STILL find a reason to doubt.....)

There are certainly extremists out there who will refuse to be convinced of a fact they find distasteful - plenty of theists insist that nothing could ever change their minds about what they believe.

For myself though, there are plenty of things about the world and reality that I don't like but nevertheless accept are real - whether I like a god or not would have nothing to do with whether I accept that god exists or not. Its certainly possible to dislike something while still accepting it is real.

GoldenBoy89 · Jul 8, 2014

keith99 said:
Not believing in God does not mean I believe there is nothing.

There are many beautiful and wondrous things out there, far more than are imagined in your theology.

^This.

I feel that if a god does exist, then that is really all the Christians can claim as far as being right. That a God exists still wouldn't prove anything from the bible to be true. There's still thousands and thousands of other beliefs in deities.

That you guys would have gotten the most basic part right, still wouldn't convince me of your entire religion.

So, sure. You can "disprove" atheism all you want. You still would have to prove Christianity to be true over every other religion that exists for me to accept it as fact.

KnowtheSilence · Jul 8, 2014

Feldon said:
Question for the group: If you are an atheist, what would it take to convince you that there truly is "something" rather than "nothing"?

Or is it possible? (I have a feeling that some loathe the concept of God so much, they could watch the seas part & they would STILL find a reason to doubt.....)

There is something that you can say to me, right now, that will convince me that God exists. If there is a God, he knows my thoughts and he knows what this thing is. If God answers prayers, you can talk to him and he can tell you what it is, then you can tell me. Then I'll believe.

There are other things that would convince me, too, but this one seems pretty straightforward.

Freodin · Jul 8, 2014

Feldon said:
Question for the group: If you are an atheist, what would it take to convince you that there truly is "something" rather than "nothing"?

Or is it possible? (I have a feeling that some loathe the concept of God so much, they could watch the seas part & they would STILL find a reason to doubt.....)

Several things are possible. I personally have a challenge going (well, stagnating )

You can find it here.

Feel free to convince me... or add your excuses why one of the things that might convince me is exactly the thing I won't get.

Feldon · Jul 8, 2014

Interesting replies, thank you for playing!

Observations:

Regarding the "I don't believe in nothing -- but I'm still an atheist" PLEASE explain. Words have meanings. "Atheism" means the specific disavowal of one, two or ANY Deity whatsoever.

It's a statement of overt disbelief.

So what, then, do you believe in?

___

Also, some of you are then turning it around to make ME affirmatively prove the existence of God. That's not what I'm asking here (but would be happy to answer/discuss in another thread if anyone wants). I'm asking what it would take for YOU to decide that atheism is no longer an intellectually rational belief -- or that you're now unsure of it as an absolute.

It's not "What would it take for you to believe in God."

But what would it take for you to decide that logically/emotionally/intellectually/spiritually can no longer claim to be an atheist?

Freodin · Jul 8, 2014

Feldon said:
Interesting replies, thank you for playing!

Observations:

Regarding the "I don't believe in nothing -- but I'm still an atheist" PLEASE explain. Words have meanings. "Atheism" means the specific disavowal of one, two or ANY Deity whatsoever.

It's a statement of overt disbelief.

So what, then, do you believe in?

You said it yourself: it is the disbelief in DEITIES. The opposite of "deity" is not "nothing".

Also, some of you are then turning it around to make ME affirmatively prove the existence of God. That's not what I'm asking here (but would be happy to answer/discuss in another thread if anyone wants). I'm asking what it would take for YOU to decide that atheism is no longer an intellectually rational belief -- or that you're now unsure of it as an absolute.

It's not "What would it take for you to believe in God."

But what would it take for you to decide that logically/emotionally/intellectually/spiritually can no longer claim to be an atheist?

In order for me to not disbelieve in deities, I would have to believe in deities. Rather logical, don't you think?
And in order to believe in deities, I need a reason to believe in deities. So it is "what would it take for you to believe in God".

And BTW: Germany : Brazil - 5 : 0

OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE!!!!!

Ana the Ist · Jul 8, 2014

Evidence.

digitalgoth · Jul 8, 2014

I have a problem of having two parents, a southern Baptist and a johovahs witness, and grew up in a fundamental muslim country. As such, absolutely no religion was impressed upon me at all. It wasn't discussed, there were no churches to look at. Due to the middle of sand dunes where I grew up, there was no TV.

I had zero exposure to any kind of religion, other than occasionally seeing a mosque which I just thought were museums or cool meeting halls, kind of like the wedding cake architecture in Moscow.

So I was an "atheist" by default. I don't think you can understand what its like to have zero direct or indirect exposure to religion. Without media and physical churches, you don't even ask about such things.

When I came to the US, I honestly thought churches were like moose lodges, social clubs where there were occasional funerals. On TV, the primary exposure of churches is for funeral services.

I'm not sure anything could "prove" or "disprove" the existence of something I had no exposure to. If some all powerful entity appeared I would just have thought it was an alien and been "cool".

Feldon · Jul 8, 2014

Freodin said:
You said it yourself: it is the disbelief in DEITIES. The opposite of "deity" is not "nothing".

In order for me to not disbelieve in deities, I would have to believe in deities. Rather logical, don't you think?
And in order to believe in deities, I need a reason to believe in deities. So it is "what would it take for you to believe in God".

And BTW: Germany : Brazil - 5 : 0

OLE OLE OLE OLE OLE!!!!!

Once again, what do you believe in? Please specify what it is, since you keep insisting it's not nothing. Thanks.

KnowtheSilence · Jul 8, 2014

Feldon said:
It's not "What would it take for you to believe in God."

But what would it take for you to decide that logically/emotionally/intellectually/spiritually can no longer claim to be an atheist?

I would logically/emotionally/intellectually/spiritual no longer be able to claim to be an atheist if I started believing in God. So, yeah, kind of the same question.

Feldon · Jul 8, 2014

KnowtheSilence said:
I would logically/emotionally/intellectually/spiritual no longer be able to claim to be an atheist if I started believing in God. So, yeah, kind of the same question.

I've known many self-described former atheists who don't believe in a God, per se, but are no longer are atheists because they have too much doubt. I guess they'd go in the agnostic camp?

Freodin · Jul 8, 2014

Feldon said:
Once again, what do you believe in? Please specify what it is, since you keep insisting it's not nothing. Thanks.

Belief is not a singular topic. It has to be regarded in a specific context.

So when you ask "what do you believe in" you have to specify: what do I believe in regarding what.

I believe that something exists. I believe that the sun will rise tomorrow. I believe that you are able to understand my point. All these beliefs concern different topics.

Even in the regard of "God" you have to be specific. In what regard is my disbelief in the Christian God in question? Morals? Origin of existence? Miracles?

I cannot answer your question if you are not specific in just what you want to know.

KnowtheSilence · Jul 8, 2014

Feldon said:
I've known many self-described former atheists who don't believe in a God, per se, but are no longer are atheists because they have too much doubt. I guess they'd go in the agnostic camp?

Looking at it that way, compellingly strong evidence against mind-body physicalism or in favor dualism might be enough to push me into the agnostic camp (I wouldn't necessarily shun the "atheist" label, but I might stop being a "strong" atheist).

Feldon · Jul 8, 2014

Freodin said:
Belief is not a singular topic. It has to be regarded in a specific context.

So when you ask "what do you believe in" you have to specify: what do I believe in regarding what.

I believe that something exists. I believe that the sun will rise tomorrow. I believe that you are able to understand my point. All these beliefs concern different topics.

Even in the regard of "God" you have to be specific. In what regard is my disbelief in the Christian God in question? Morals? Origin of existence? Miracles?

I cannot answer your question if you are not specific in just what you want to know.

We weren't talking about the sun rising, or a Christian God, or any of the other non sequitors, red herrings or strawmen.

Very simply, what do you believe in? If not in nothing..... then in what?

Feldon · Jul 8, 2014

KnowtheSilence said:
Looking at it that way, compellingly strong evidence against mind-body physicalism or in favor dualism might be enough to push me into the agnostic camp (I wouldn't necessarily shun the "atheist" label, but I might stop being a "strong" atheist).

Most of the former atheists I've met think that way.... they're not suddenly buying Bibles or going to Church, but SOMETHING happened in their lives, and now they can no longer explicitly disavow the possibility of a Deity.

It's like a door that's a little cracked open....

Freodin · Jul 8, 2014

Feldon said:
We weren't talking about the sun rising, or a Christian God, or any of the other non sequitors, red herrings or strawmen.

Very simply, what do you believe in? If not in nothing..... then in what?

If you cannot be clearer in your question, I cannot be clearer in my answer.

I believe in something.

Freodin · Jul 8, 2014

Feldon said:
Most of the former atheists I've met think that way.... they're not suddenly buying Bibles or going to Church, but SOMETHING happened in their lives, and now they can no longer explicitly disavow the possibility of a Deity.

It's like a door that's a little cracked open....

I am an atheist, have been an atheist for decades and do not see anything that will change that in the forseeable future.

And I still do not explicitly disavow the possibility of a deity.

Fathom that!

Feldon · Jul 8, 2014

Freodin said:
I believe in something.

Well.... I believe in Crystal Light. (Because I believe in me!)

Okey Dokey: Does this "something" pertain to the nature of existence/reality? (And really, it would be a lot easier if you would volunteer info, rather than have it extracted with dental equipment. C'mon, open up! I promise, I won't bite.)

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