What Would Falsify the Flood? (2)

dad said:

He does run it when His children cry out to him. This universe and earth will have a no trespassing sign for him and his angels forevermore one day.

Meanwhile, man has chosen the long way home, and all the filthy deadly hurtful, sick results of listening to the ol boy are part of our learning experience. Maybe a bit like a serious hangover, that teaches some to not drink so much if at all. Better to willingly be moderate, than to simply have God take wine off the shelves I suspect.

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Isn't that the way kids are taught once they get older? Let them make decisions for themselves. It is the best way to learn.

EternalDragon said:

Isn't that the way kids are taught once they get older? Let them make decisions for themselves. It is the best way to learn.

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Yes. Ideally, we all kinda think that the best way would be just to obey mom, and not eat dirt, or stick our hand on the stove, but I guess one way or the other we need to learn. Some possibly require more teaching.

Loudmouth said:

Didn't find what? Describe the evidence we didn't find.

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This is you talking.. "Therefore, when we find evidence that contradicts your map,.."

You don't. If so describe it.

It is a concept of logic and reason, both of which your argument lacks.

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False. It is totally unreasonable to pretend science has the ability to falsify anything spiritual, or in a time and place where we know not what nature existed.

That is a claim, not an observation.



Also a claim, and not an observation.

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When you rise from the dead and fulfill hundreds of scriptures, some might take what you say more seriously. Until then, you are in no position to sully the sacred word of holy men of ages.

Then you have no evidence for a flood.

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You want to have evidence fit in a godless little box, or you call it something else. You are in no position to even use the word evidence in any serious way!!!

EternalDragon said:

Isn't that the way kids are taught once they get older? Let them make decisions for themselves. It is the best way to learn.

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It's not. That's why teachers are schooled adults. Note that Parents who are 30 raise much better kids than those who parents are 12 to 15 years old. Adults raise kids much better by guiding their education. The best way to learn is experience guided by involved parents. Even single moms and gay parents can do a fantastic job of raising kids. I've learned this though direct observation in recent years, contrary to what sermon-writers teach.

Nothing can falsify the flood. Many indications are in the story that God Created the flood using supernatural powers. If supernatural powers were involved then it was not a "Natural" flood. Such a flood may have had any number of unusual properties. For example, there is no indication of any kind that there was any wind or even waves.

A flood without wind or waves? That's unusual. The Ark could have been made from cement if there were no wind or waves. SO we don't know exactly what effect the water had on the land. So we can't look for evidence if we don't know the conditions. Plus we don't know the year, except for old-monk-tales tossed about from place to place.

SkyWriting said:

Nothing can falsify the flood. Many indications are in the story that God Created the flood using supernatural powers. If supernatural powers were involved then it was not a "Natural" flood.

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That is a given, since the windows of heaven were opened, however if the nature was also different, that leaves science out of the loop.

Such a flood may have had any number of unusual properties. For example, there is no indication of any kind that there was any wind or even waves.

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There sure was a great wind at the latter stage of the flood! I don't see how you could drown a planet totally and quickly without some wind and waves though. Not very strong speculation.

What would falsify the Flood?
Hmmm.....
Perhaps a an ancient Hebrew text predating Genesis containing a prophecy indicating a future fictitious flood story, Oh; and it would have to be personally signed by Noah!

2sparrows said:

What would falsify the Flood?
Hmmm.....
Perhaps a an ancient Hebrew text predating Genesis containing a prophecy indicating a future fictitious flood story, Oh; and it would have to be personally signed by Noah!

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You know what his signature is to authenticate such a document?

SkyWriting said:

Nothing can falsify the flood. Many indications are in the story that God Created the flood using supernatural powers. If supernatural powers were involved then it was not a "Natural" flood. Such a flood may have had any number of unusual properties. For example, there is no indication of any kind that there was any wind or even waves.

A flood without wind or waves? That's unusual. The Ark could have been made from cement if there were no wind or waves. SO we don't know exactly what effect the water had on the land. So we can't look for evidence if we don't know the conditions. Plus we don't know the year, except for old-monk-tales tossed about from place to place.

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OK.

So if you think it was supernatural, and that the science therefore doesn't reflect the fact of the matter about what occurred... then there is no reason to deny that the science has the appearance of pointing towards a rejection of the worldwide flood claim.

Do you agree?

For what it's worth, if your position is that the event was a supernatural event, and not a natural one, then that is far more respectable than claiming that the event was natural and that people are simply mistaken about the scientific evidence.

2sparrows said:

What would falsify the Flood?
Hmmm.....
Perhaps a an ancient Hebrew text predating Genesis containing a prophecy indicating a future fictitious flood story, Oh; and it would have to be personally signed by Noah!

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This makes no sense.

What would falsify the Flood?

The same thing that would falsify these, and this is just the 'A's.
And this is only half of the 'A's because the full list of 'A's was too long.

Á Bao A Qu (Malay) - An entity that lives in the Tower of Victory in Chitor.
Aatxe (Basque) - A spirit that takes the form of a bull.
Abaasy (Yakuts) - Demons that have teeth of iron.
Abada (African) - Small type of unicorn reported to live in the lands of the African Congo.
Äbädä (Tatar) - Forest spirit.
Abaia (Melanesia) - Huge magical eel.
Abarimon (Medieval Bestiaries) - Savage humanoid with backward feet.
Abath (Malay) - One-horned animal.
Abura-sumashi (Japanese) - Creature from a mountain pass in Kumamoto Prefecture.
Acephali (Greek) - Headless humanoids.
Acheri (Indian) - Disease-bringing ghost.
Achlis (Roman) - Curious elk.
Adar Llwch Gwin (Welsh) - Giant birds that understand human languages.
Adaro (Solomon Islands) - Malevolent merfolk.
Adhene (Manx) - Nature spirit.
Adlet (Inuit) - Vampiric dog-human hybrid
Adroanzi (Lugbara) - Nature spirit.
Adze (Ewe people) - An African vampiric-forest being.
Aerico (Greek) - Disease demon.
Afanc (Welsh) - Lake monster (exact lake varies by story).
Agni (Hindu) - God of fire and sacrifices.
Agathodaemon (Greek) - Spirit of vinefields and grainfields.
Agloolik (Inuit) - Ice spirit that aids hunters and fishermen.
Agogwe (East Africa) - Small, ape-like humanoid.
Ahkiyyini (Inuit) - Animated skeleton that causes shipwrecks.
Ahuizotl (Aztec) - Anthropophagous dog-monkey hybrid.
Aigamuxa (Khoikhoi) - Anthropophagous humanoid with eyes in its instep.
Aigikampoi (Etruscan) - Fish-tailed goat.
Airavata (Hindu) - Divine Elephant.
Aitu (Polynesian) - Malevolent spirits or demons.
Aitvaras (Lithuanian) - Household spirit.
Ajatar (Finnish) - Dragon.
Akamataa (Japanese) - Snake spirit from Okinawa.
Akateko (Japanese) - Tree-dwelling monster.
Akhlut (Inuit) - Orca-wolf shapeshifter.
Akka (Finnish) - Female spirits or minor goddesses.
Akki (Japanese) - Large, grotesque humanoid.
Akkorokamui (Ainu) - Sea monster.
Akuma (Japanese) - Evil spirit.
Akupara (Hindu) - Giant turtle that supports the world.
Akurojin-no-hi (Japanese) - Ghostly flame which causes disease.
Al (Armenian and Persian) - Spirit that steals unborn babies and livers from pregnant women.
Ala (Slavic) - Bad weather demon.
Alal (Chaldean) - Demon.
Alan (Philippine) - Winged humanoid that steals reproductive waste to make children.
Alce (Heraldic) - Wingless griffin.
Aleya (Bengali) - Spirit of a dead fisherman.
Alicanto (Chilean) - Bird that eats gold and silver.
Alicorn - A winged unicorn from the Latin "ala" (wing) and "corn" (horn).
Alkonost (Slavic) - Angelic bird with human head and breasts.
Allocamelus (Heraldic) - Ass-camel hybrid.
Almas (Mongolian) - Savage humanoid.
Al-mi'raj (Islamic) - One-horned rabbit.
Aloja (Catalan) - Female water spirit.
Alom-bag-winno-sis (Abenaki) - Little people and tricksters.
Alp (German) - Male night-demon.
Alphyn (Heraldic) - Lion-like creature, sometimes with dragon or goat forelegs.
Alp-luachra (Irish) - Parasitic fairy.
Al Rakim (Islamic) - Guard dog of the Seven Sleepers.
Alseid (Greek) - Grove nymph.
Alû (Assyrian) - Leprous demon.
Alux (Mayan) - Little people.
Amaburakosagi (Japanese) - Ritual disciplinary demon from Shikoku.
Amala (Tsimshian) - Giant who holds up the world.
Amamehagi (Japanese) - Ritual disciplinary demon from Hokuriku.
Amanojaku (Japanese) - Small demon.
Amarok (Inuit) - Giant wolf.
Amarum (Quechua) - Water boa spirit.
Amazake-babaa (Japanese) - Disease-causing hag.
Amemasu (Ainu) - Lake monster.
Ammit (Ancient Egyptian) - Female demon with a body that was part lion, hippopotamus and crocodile.
Amorōnagu (Japanese) - Tennyo from the island of Amami Ōshima.
Amphiptere (Heraldic) - Winged serpent.
Amphisbaena (Greek) - Serpent with a head at each end.
Anakim (Jewish) - Giant.
Androsphinx (Ancient Egyptian) - Human-headed sphinx.
Angel (mainly Christian, Jewish, Islamic traditions) - From the Greek ángelos, divine beings of Heaven who act as mediators between God and humans; the counterparts of Demons.
Angha (Persian) - Dog-lion-peacock hybrid.
Ani Hyuntikwalaski (Cherokee) - Lightning spirit.
Ankou (French) - Skeletal grave watcher with a lantern and a scythe.
Anmo (Japanese) - Ritual disciplinary demon from Iwate Prefecture.
Antaeus (Greek) - A giant who was extremely strong as long as he remained in contact with the ground.

How exactly do mythological gods falsify the flood?

Sayre said:

How exactly do mythological gods falsify the flood?

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They are not mythological gods they are just myths, just like the flood story.

If there had been a WW flood the damage it caused would be visible ALL OVER THE EARTH,
if you believe in a WW flood you believe it because you want to and not because it actually happened,
just as there is no evidence for a God but you believe in a God anyway,
the same is true for Bigfoot the Yeti and a host of other unfounded myths that people all over the world CHOOSE to believe, the truth of it is of no concern to them because it's what they want to believe, they make up their own truth.

FredHoyle said:

They are not mythological gods they are just myths, just like the flood story.

If there had been a WW flood the damage it caused would be visible ALL OVER THE EARTH,
if you believe in a WW flood you believe it because you want to and not because it actually happened,
just as there is no evidence for a God but you believe in a God anyway,
the same is true for Bigfoot the Yeti and a host of other unfounded myths that people all over the world CHOOSE to believe, the truth of it is of no concern to them because it's what they want to believe, they make up their own truth.

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Newsflash Fred many Christians do not believe in a worldwide flood, and instead respect the Noahic flood for the myth that it is .

Do try to get with the times or I'll have to accuse you of being a fundie atheist

Sayre said:

Newsflash Fred many Christians do not believe in a worldwide flood, and instead respect the Noahic flood for the myth that it is .

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Newsflash That's because many so called Christians are not Christians at all, they just say they are.

I am what you might call a Christian-Muslim-Buddhist-Hindu, I believe some teachings of all those religions, not the miracles or the crazy parts of course just the good bits like 'love thy neighbour', so put me down as a believer of bits of them all, you know very well where I'm coming from don't you?

FredHoyle said:

Newsflash That's because many so called Christians are not Christians at all, they just say they are.

I am what you might call a Christian-Muslim-Buddhist-Hindu, I believe some teachings of all those religions, not the miracles or the crazy parts of course just the good bits like 'love thy neighbour', so put me down as a believer of bits of them all, you know very well where I'm coming from don't you?

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You don't get to define Christian as "someone who believes in a literal A&E and a literal flood", especially when the literature is clearly mythical.

The fact that you refuse to engage in the debate beyond this fundamentalist level is frustrating.

Sayre said:

You don't get to define Christian as "someone who believes in a literal A&E and a literal flood", especially when the literature is clearly mythical.

The fact that you refuse to engage in the debate beyond this fundamentalist level is frustrating.

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OK let's debate, which parts of the Bible is myth and which parts are to be believed,
and then, how do you know which parts are myth and which are to be believed?

FredHoyle said:

OK let's debate, which parts of the Bible is myth and which parts are to be believed,
and then, how do you know which parts are myth and which are to be believed?

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Pretty much all of Genesis 1-11 is myth.

The rest of the OT I would say varies in it's representations of history... because it was written for spiritual content and not as a fact for fact portrayal of history.

I would say it is a bunch of historical events, retold with spiritual emphasis, and glued together into an overarching narrative.

Sayre said:

Pretty much all of Genesis 1-11 is myth.

The rest of the OT I would say varies in it's representations of history... because it was written for spiritual content and not as a fact for fact portrayal of history.

I would say it is a bunch of historical events, retold with spiritual emphasis, and glued together into an overarching narrative.

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You still didn't tell me how you know this, did you decide for yourself?

FredHoyle said:

You still didn't tell me how you know this, did you decide for yourself?

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I think I've told you about FOUR TIMES now.

Literary genre helps us determine what we are reading. Read mythology for what it is. Read history for what it is. Read poetry as poetry and wisdom as wisdom.

Combine this acknowledgment of literary genre with higher criticism and what we know of natural history and you get a clearer picture of what actually transpired, and how to interpret the bible in a broader context.