What We Must Learn From the Zachery Tims Tragedy

[JimB]

What do you think of Lee Grady’s article, “What We Must Learn From the Zachery Tims Tragedy,” posted today at ...

http://charismamag.com/index.php/fire-in-my-bones/31798-what-we-must-learn-from-the-zachery-tims-tragedy​

~Jim

Christianity without signs and wonders is just another religion. ~John Wimber​

 

[The Unforgettable Fire]

What do you think of Lee Grady’s article, “What We Must Learn From the Zachery Tims Tragedy,” posted today at ...

http://charismamag.com/index.php/fire-in-my-bones/31798-what-we-must-learn-from-the-zachery-tims-tragedy​

~Jim

Christianity without signs and wonders is just another religion. ~John Wimber​

Over the top. The guy who wrote the article is frustrated and looking for someone to blame. It's human nature.

I don't know who this guy was. (I don't watch Christian TV), but as I was reading it I thought to myself, that could just as easily have been me.

The guy who wrote the article makes some good points, but I think he takes it too far. God gives all of us free will. We could analyze these things to death and look for somewhere to point the finger, but at the end of the day, it is a very sad and tragic event.

If there is something to learn, I think it would be, don't hide your sin. Be honest with your family and those around you and be real with yourself about the consequences of your choices and decisions.

Also, don't judge him for his poor judgments. It could have just as easily have been us.

I hope and pray that his family forgives him and finds healing, grace and some strong shoulders to lean on who don't judge him and speak love, grace and forgiveness in this sad time.

 

[paul1149]

Well-balanced, sensitive, and says what needs to be said. I may not agree with an arbitrary one year minimum rehab period, but I would agree that the church needs to stop coasting on business momentum when trouble arises and start living according to Biblical principles and its higher calling.

 

[Yitzchak]

I wonder about whether a big part of the problem is having Christian Superstars. Whether or not they crack under the pressure , it seems like the whole ministry should not rest upon the fall of one man. It will always have an impact when someone falls into sin. Especially a leader.

It reminds me of the high payed superstars in professional sports. What team is going to bench their superstar when the playoffs are on the line ?

I agree with the article. When it became obvious that this man was not handling the pressure of the public spotlight well. He should have stepped down to work out his personal issues privately. But I think it is like my sports analogy. there is a lot of pressure to not step down when a lot is invested in the " superstar ".

Maybe the problem is not just the fall into sin. maybe a part of the problem is the way things are structured where there is not more of a team concept ??

I think that a lot of churches and ministries would run a lot better if they had a few dozen people taking turns doing the preaching and ministering.

The truth is that there is a percentage of Christians who backslide and even fall away from the faith. We need to structure things so that the whole ministry is not leaning upon a few key people.

 

[Faulty]

Can't say I really disagree with the main points. As to this man, I hadn't heard of him until he died. So, I can't speak to that.

 

[tturt]

Yes it is a very sad situation and agree that we don't need to be judgmental.

"...few dozen people taking turns doing the preaching and ministering." We're seeing this more in our area than before - during the same service even.

A question:
The sitdown period of pastors - If they've repented, just wondering why we expect pastors to sit down for a year (or some period of time) for sins while that standard isn't expected of anyone else? I understand about their responsibilities but we don't know their hearts.

 

[Faulty]

A question:
The sitdown period of pastors - If they've repented, just wondering why we expect pastors to sit down for a year (or some period of time) for sins while that standard isn't expected of anyone else? I understand about their responsibilities but we don't know their hearts.

Well, for me, such a thing disqualifies a man from pastor service. While I don't disagree with the year, I personally think it's too little. In a selected list, 1 Timothy 3 states an overseer needs to be above reproach, self-controlled, respectable, able to manage their household well, and must be thought well of outsiders.

For me, the very fact that I didn't know this man, but the legacy of his life is one marked by infidelity and prostitution, demonstrates he no longer met the overseer requirements at some point.

I don't know him, his heart, if he was truly repentent of his sin because he sinned, as opposed the "repentence" that comes only after getting caught in sin, or anything else related to the incident, but I don't see anywhere in the scripture where such a thing would again qualify someone again as an overseer, because forgiven or not, he'll likely never again be known as "above reproach, self-controlled, respectable, able to manage their household well, and thought well of outsiders", and the fact that this man life if forever marked by such sin just highlights this fact.

 

[BenAdam]

IMHO, Lee touched on the most disturbing point by showing that those surrounding the fellow seemed to be more concerned with their "meal ticket" than with a guy that had fallen into sin and needed help and repentance.

 

[Tamara224]

What do you think of Lee Grady’s article, “What We Must Learn From the Zachery Tims Tragedy,” posted today at ...

http://charismamag.com/index.php/fire-in-my-bones/31798-what-we-must-learn-from-the-zachery-tims-tragedy​

~Jim

Christianity without signs and wonders is just another religion. ~John Wimber​

I think Grady doesn't go far enough. Having someone step down for an arbitrary amount of time (a year, 6 months, 10 years, whatever) isn't getting to the root of the problem.

We need to learn to stop putting men on pedestals. We need to stop with the celebrity worship. We need to stop looking to "leaders".

As long as churches are pastor-centric personality cults, this is going to happen. You can't put a man on stage week after week after week and have tens, hundreds, thousands and millions of people hanging on his every word, paying him to come talk to them, and treating his opinions as the very word of God and not expect that it's going to go to his head.

We puff them up and then wonder why they finally exploded.

 

[gratefulgrace]

Over the top. The guy who wrote the article is frustrated and looking for someone to blame. It's human nature.

I don't know who this guy was. (I don't watch Christian TV), but as I was reading it I thought to myself, that could just as easily have been me.

The guy who wrote the article makes some good points, but I think he takes it too far. God gives all of us free will. We could analyze these things to death and look for somewhere to point the finger, but at the end of the day, it is a very sad and tragic event.

If there is something to learn, I think it would be, don't hide your sin. Be honest with your family and those around you and be real with yourself about the consequences of your choices and decisions.AMEN

Also, don't judge him for his poor judgments. It could have just as easily have been us.

I hope and pray that his family forgives him and finds healing, grace and some strong shoulders to lean on who don't judge him and speak love, grace and forgiveness in this sad time.

A few years back we had a christian friend we had lost contact with him in the last 5 years but he had worked a few years in my husbands construction company as a framer. A mutual friend called us to tell us he had committed suicide after shooting his girlfriend on her boat. It was such a crazy story we were gobsmacked and very confused and we wrestled with how this could have happened to the sweet christ loving guy we had known. He too had come from a life of crime and drugs to salvation in Christ. He was very full of life and love. He grew in God and in time he married a beautiful girl who also came from a troubled past but was saved and they had a child. They seemed quite happy when we lost touch with them and were established in a solid church home. At his memorial service heard that he was generous of heart and had a gift of helps for others within his church and without. However his marriage went bad we think partly due to financial pressure and with in 6 months after they separated he was back on drugs and dead. He nose dived just like the pastor we are discussing a similar story although I do not believe he ever committed adultery as he worshipped his wife. This could have been part of the problem, whenever something other that the Lord has our undivided attention we get into trouble. I believe if he had been able to openly share with his christian brothers what he was struggling with there would have been a very different outcome. But he cut ties and isolated himself and fell back into old and destructive patterns of behaviour. We could not believe it had happened and questioned whether his salvation had been true but we saw the fruit of the spirit for the 5 years he worked with my hubby. So we have prayed for his soul and we go on but it left many people very shaken.GG

1Cr 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

1Cr 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

1Cr 10:14 ¶ Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.

 

[Yitzchak]

I think Grady doesn't go far enough. Having someone step down for an arbitrary amount of time (a year, 6 months, 10 years, whatever) isn't getting to the root of the problem.

We need to learn to stop putting men on pedestals. We need to stop with the celebrity worship. We need to stop looking to "leaders".

As long as churches are pastor-centric personality cults, this is going to happen. You can't put a man on stage week after week after week and have tens, hundreds, thousands and millions of people hanging on his every word, paying him to come talk to them, and treating his opinions as the very word of God and not expect that it's going to go to his head.

We puff them up and then wonder why they finally exploded.

I agree with this post. The root of the issue is not the surface level issues of the specifics of the sin that he fell into. There needs to be a restructuring of the ministry.