What was your initial reaction?

Ohioprof · Sep 24, 2007

savedandhappy1 said:
Ok, so she was walking on shaking ground over 100 years ago.

So you get your belief of God, Jesus, Salvation, Heaven, Hell, etc. from what? How do we know how to be saved? How do we know what is meant by righteousness? How do we know anything about God, His Son and how to live then?

My faith is a practice, not a doctrine. I don't subscribe to any creed. So I don't hold any firm belief about the nature of God or Jesus or salvation, etc. I believe in universal salvation, but I could be wrong about this. I do not claim to know the "truth." But since my faith is a practice rather than a doctrine, it doesn't matter to me if I know the "truth." That is not the point of faith, in my view. I think we learn how to live through our awareness of the world around us, through scientific inquiry, and through our history and our traditions. God has given us many ways to know and to discover.

savedandhappy1 · Sep 25, 2007

Ohioprof said:
My faith is a practice, not a doctrine. I don't subscribe to any creed. So I don't hold any firm belief about the nature of God or Jesus or salvation, etc. I believe in universal salvation, but I could be wrong about this. I do not claim to know the "truth." But since my faith is a practice rather than a doctrine, it doesn't matter to me if I know the "truth." That is not the point of faith, in my view. I think we learn how to live through our awareness of the world around us, through scientific inquiry, and through our history and our traditions. God has given us many ways to know and to discover.

So you learned that we have to live by faith how, if you don't mind me asking?

For that fact you learned there was a God and He has a Son named Jesus how?
Do you think Jesus came here to give us the example of how we are suppose to live? Do you believe that Jesus died for our sins and rose again on the 3rd. day?

Can you explain what you mean by firm belief in salvation? Do you believe we are saved by grace through faith?

Ohioprof · Sep 25, 2007

savedandhappy1 said:
So you learned that we have to live by faith how, if you don't mind me asking?

For that fact you learned there was a God and He has a Son named Jesus how?
Do you think Jesus came here to give us the example of how we are suppose to live? Do you believe that Jesus died for our sins and rose again on the 3rd. day?

Can you explain what you mean by firm belief in salvation? Do you believe we are saved by grace through faith?

I chose and I choose to live by faith. No one taught this to me; it was my decision, as a result of my life experiences and reading. I chose and I choose to be active in my church also.

I do not believe that Jesus is the "son" of God, any more than all of us are children of God. I do not attribute divinity to Jesus. I do not believe that the resurrection literally happened. I do not believe that Jesus rose bodily from the dead. I do believe that Jesus tried to set an example of how to live. I regard Jesus as a wise teacher, not as the messiah or the savior or the son of God. I try to follow the teachings of Jesus as best we can determine them, because of his wisdom. I do not believe that the Bible is the word of God or that it was inspired by God. I think the Bible was assembled by a particular group of Jesus followers who excluded other Jesus followers and suppressed (but could not destroy) their writings.

I believe all people and all sentient beings are saved. I do not believe that faith is required for salvation. I do not have faith in order to gain salvation. I really don't care about salvation. This is not a concern of mine. I am concerned with living well here on earth during the time I have here.

I hope I have answered your questions sufficiently.

savedandhappy1 · Sep 25, 2007

Ohioprof said:
I chose and I choose to live by faith. No one taught this to me; it was my decision, as a result of my life experiences and reading. I chose and I choose to be active in my church also.

I do not believe that Jesus is the "son" of God, any more than all of us are children of God. I do not attribute divinity to Jesus. I do not believe that the resurrection literally happened. I do not believe that Jesus rose bodily from the dead. I do believe that Jesus tried to set an example of how to live. I regard Jesus as a wise teacher, not as the messiah or the savior or the son of God. I try to follow the teachings of Jesus as best we can determine them, because of his wisdom. I do not believe that the Bible is the word of God or that it was inspired by God. I think the Bible was assembled by a particular group of Jesus followers who excluded other Jesus followers and suppressed (but could not destroy) their writings.

I believe all people and all sentient beings are saved. I do not believe that faith is required for salvation. I do not have faith in order to gain salvation. I really don't care about salvation. This is not a concern of mine. I am concerned with living well here on earth during the time I have here.

I hope I have answered your questions sufficiently.

Yes, you have thank you.

So if the Bible is right and you have to believe that Jesus is God's Son, and that He died and rose again to save us, what then?

If the only way to heaven is by the grace given us by Jesus, and by faith in this, as the Bible says, what then?

Ohioprof · Sep 25, 2007

savedandhappy1 said:
Yes, you have thank you.

So if the Bible is right and you have to believe that Jesus is God's Son, and that He died and rose again to save us, what then?

If the only way to heaven is by the grace given us by Jesus, and by faith in this, as the Bible says, what then?

I'm not worried about it. So you need not worry about me.

david_x · Sep 25, 2007

Or rather, the writer who wrote the 10 commandments several centuries after Moses had died, said that God wrote them with his fingers...

It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so

That's all? You really don't have anything here. Necessarily implies faith.

savedandhappy1 · Sep 25, 2007

Ohioprof said:
I'm not worried about it. So you need not worry about me.

Well, I wish I could say that your not worrying about it makes me not worry about you, but that isn't the case.

Will be praying for you.

Thanks for answering my questions.

artybloke · Sep 26, 2007

david_x said:
That's all? You really don't have anything here. Necessarily implies faith.

But faith in what? A 2000-3000 year old set of documents written by people who obviously had some very profound experiences of God they wished to convey in very human, culturally specific ways, often making mistakes but equally often getting things right?

Or faith in Christ?

Do you worship the Bible or do you worship Christ?

The letter killeth but the spirit giveth life. You can't serve two masters.

Jet_A_Jockey · Sep 26, 2007

artybloke said:
But faith in what? A 2000-3000 year old set of documents written by people who obviously had some very profound experiences of God they wished to convey in very human, culturally specific ways, often making mistakes but equally often getting things right?

Or faith in Christ?

Do you worship the Bible or do you worship Christ?

The letter killeth but the spirit giveth life. You can't serve two masters.

How do you know the spirit without the letter? Read enough of the bible to accept Christ in your life and then live according to your own whims?

artybloke · Sep 26, 2007

Read enough of the bible to accept Christ in your life and then live according to your own whims?

If Christ is in your life, how can you follow your own whims?

How do you know the spirit without the letter?

The Bible is a great servant of the spirit. But it's a terrible master. It is a guide and a help for all those who look through the eyes of Christ. But if you look to it as rule book, as "God's little instruction manual", in what way are you different from the Pharisees?

Jet_A_Jockey · Sep 26, 2007

even with Christ in you, in this life we still can (and do) fall into sin.

SpiritDriven · Sep 26, 2007

The first time I heard about these verses was after God had already brought me to the relisation of the truth.

A man's way is not in himself; Nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps (Jeremiah 10:23).

The self righteouse people who condemn anybody let alone homosexuals, have been made vessels for destruction by God....by the will of God.

They are not meant to be in the first ressurection, to begin with, they are the Goats, they think they are sheep, but they are not.

Their own actions shows Gods will for them, because God is the sheperd of both the sheep and the goats you see.... they think they are being righteouse, by condeming others....they are just displaying how they cannot resist the will of God for them.

They are vessels made for destruction, mind you that destruction is eonion, not eternal, the word eternal never appears in the original Greek the NT was written in.

Be in fear and awe of God people....

artybloke · Sep 26, 2007

Of course, but when you do, it hurts the spirit and you know it. Christ told us to love. And what is sin, except being unloving?

But being wrong in your interpretation of the Bible isn't sin. Being unloving in your interpretation of the Bible.

Christ is always in you. Redemption doesn't happen once it happens every day. When you turn to your neighbour in love, you turn to Christ, because Christ is in them too.

The Bible is a useful spiritual tool to help you learn, as are the Journals of George Fox, the Little Flowers of St Francis, the Practice of the Presence of God, Letters & Papers from Prison (Bonhoeffer) and a whole host of other writings.

The Spirit didn't suddenly go silent in the year 100 AD.

SpiritDriven · Sep 26, 2007

God is the one who hardens their hearts, not the person who has the heart.....

Jet_A_Jockey · Sep 26, 2007

How is it possible to believe the bible enough to trust Christ as the Son of God , the Redeemer, but not enough to believe anything else it says?

artybloke · Sep 26, 2007

What do you mean believe the Bible? How can you believe a collection of words printed on paper & bound in cloth?

I believe in Christ because the Spirit of Christ is within me (as He is in you) not because the Bible says so.

Phinehas2 · Sep 26, 2007

Dear Artybloke,
But how do you know about the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is testified about in the Bible?
And if you do believe in the Holy Spirit you do believe in a collection of words in a book which tells you not just about who the Holy Spirit is but that He lives within. the problem is that the Bible also tells us what He does which is guide us in truth and remind us of what Jesus taught, so at the moment He isnt guiding you in that.

Ohioprof · Sep 26, 2007

Jet_A_Jockey said:
How is it possible to believe the bible enough to trust Christ as the Son of God , the Redeemer, but not enough to believe anything else it says?

Different people understand what the Bible "says" differently.

I personally don't regard the Bible as the word of God at all, nor do I regard Jesus as the son of God. Others who do regard Jesus as the son of God nevertheless often interpret the Bible differently than you do.

Ohioprof · Sep 26, 2007

Phinehas2 said:
Dear Artybloke,
But how do you know about the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is testified about in the Bible?
And if you do believe in the Holy Spirit you do believe in a collection of words in a book which tells you not just about who the Holy Spirit is but that He lives within. the problem is that the Bible also tells us what He does which is guide us in truth and remind us of what Jesus taught, so at the moment He isnt guiding you in that.

The Bible contains some of what Jesus taught and some of what he did not teach. Some of the teachings attributed to Jesus in the Bible were made up later by subsequent Christians. That includes the claim that Jesus was the messiah.

Ohioprof · Sep 26, 2007

SpiritDriven said:
God is the one who hardens their hearts, not the person who has the heart.....

Cholesterol and other physical conditions harden the heart, or more accurately, harden the blood vessels leading to and from the heart.

What was your initial reaction?

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I So Hate Consequences!!!!

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