What was your initial reaction?

DesignerNate · Sep 19, 2007

When you first heard the passages that supposively condemn homosexuality? Keep in mind that I'm not out to try and prove what those verses are saying / the context they should be given. Bottom line is all of us heard some of these verses and in whatever way, reacted to them. I simply want to hear how you reacted when hearing them. For me When I first heard some of these verses I went through a period of just not understanding God. I mean here I was in 7th grade, I didn't choose to feel sexually attracted to men, and then here are these verses which initially I just took as God telling me these feelings were sinful (again what conclusion of these verses you have made thus far may be different than the conclusion I made at the time), I was actually quite mad at the whole situation. I didn't understand how the deep intimate love for another man could be sinful. As I begin to understand where my hearts desires and intents are things begin to become more clear to me. I still am searching for what answers God has for me and the journey is far from over.

So that was my initial reaction, but how did you first react to it?

HaloHope · Sep 19, 2007

DesignerNate said:
When you first heard the passages that supposively condemn homosexuality? Keep in mind that I'm not out to try and prove what those verses are saying / the context they should be given. Bottom line is all of us heard some of these verses and in whatever way, reacted to them. I simply want to hear how you reacted when hearing them. For me When I first heard some of these verses I went through a period of just not understanding God. I mean here I was in 7th grade, I didn't choose to feel sexually attracted to men, and then here are these verses which initially I just took as God telling me these feelings were sinful (again what conclusion of these verses you have made thus far may be different than the conclusion I made at the time), I was actually quite mad at the whole situation. I didn't understand how the deep intimate love for another man could be sinful. As I begin to understand where my hearts desires and intents are things begin to become more clear to me. I still am searching for what answers God has for me and the journey is far from over.

So that was my initial reaction, but how did you first react to it?

I really didnt take it in. When I read the verses in question at the same time to me they simply didnt condemn homosexuality. It was other Christians who told me they did. Which is why I believe it is people who say homosexuality is a sin, not the Bible.

Zaac · Sep 19, 2007

DesignerNate said:
When you first heard the passages that supposively condemn homosexuality? Keep in mind that I'm not out to try and prove what those verses are saying / the context they should be given. Bottom line is all of us heard some of these verses and in whatever way, reacted to them. I simply want to hear how you reacted when hearing them. For me When I first heard some of these verses I went through a period of just not understanding God. I mean here I was in 7th grade, I didn't choose to feel sexually attracted to men, and then here are these verses which initially I just took as God telling me these feelings were sinful (again what conclusion of these verses you have made thus far may be different than the conclusion I made at the time), I was actually quite mad at the whole situation. I didn't understand how the deep intimate love for another man could be sinful. As I begin to understand where my hearts desires and intents are things begin to become more clear to me. I still am searching for what answers God has for me and the journey is far from over.

So that was my initial reaction, but how did you first react to it?

Your intital reaction was as skewed as most who don't understand that God has not said that your attraction to men is sin.

Your confusion about God stems from knowing that what you mean by deep intimate love with a man includes acts that God DOES speak against.

God's Word is written on every man's heart and that truth is what your spirit was at odds with.

artybloke · Sep 19, 2007

The Bible was written 2000 years old. It has no relevance on the matter. Id no more go to the Bible for advice on morals than I would for advice on diet.

dayhiker · Sep 19, 2007

When I first read the verses that refer to male on male sex I took them as just that. I also took many other verses about two fabics, about eating pork, about clean and unclean animals. I knew my church wasn't obeying any of these commands. But I figured the church knew what it was saying. Its taken many years of study (not just this topic) to start to understand the issues and form my own opinions.

dayhiker

Ohioprof · Sep 19, 2007

I had no reaction at all to these verses, since they were about men, and I am not a man. By the time I was old enough to recognize that my feelings about women meant that I am indeed a lesbian, I had ceased to believe in the Bible. Actually, I don't think I ever did believe in the Bible, though I tried to be a good Lutheran in my church as a child. But the Bible always struck me as contradictory, and I found no answers and no spiritual satisfaction or community in my church. So I left my Lutheran church and eventually became a Unitarian Universalist. It was a great decision for me.

naotmaa · Sep 19, 2007

I was 12 years old..I think. I remember reading it somewhere. Now it is important to remember that this was before I realized I was gay.
My reaction was ..disappointment. Up until the point I alway thought that the reasons why sins were sins made sense. Then that came along and I did not understand at all.
Also I think their was a description of that verse with the verse. i would not have been able to completely understand what it meant otherwise.

ReformedChapin · Sep 19, 2007

DesignerNate said:
When you first heard the passages that supposively condemn homosexuality? Keep in mind that I'm not out to try and prove what those verses are saying / the context they should be given. Bottom line is all of us heard some of these verses and in whatever way, reacted to them. I simply want to hear how you reacted when hearing them. For me When I first heard some of these verses I went through a period of just not understanding God. I mean here I was in 7th grade, I didn't choose to feel sexually attracted to men, and then here are these verses which initially I just took as God telling me these feelings were sinful (again what conclusion of these verses you have made thus far may be different than the conclusion I made at the time), I was actually quite mad at the whole situation. I didn't understand how the deep intimate love for another man could be sinful. As I begin to understand where my hearts desires and intents are things begin to become more clear to me. I still am searching for what answers God has for me and the journey is far from over.

So that was my initial reaction, but how did you first react to it?

They make perfect sense to me. God designed human beings for heterosexual relationships.

Apollo Celestio · Sep 19, 2007

artybloke said:
The Bible was written 2000 years old. It has no relevance on the matter. Id no more go to the Bible for advice on morals than I would for advice on diet.

o_o; Sir, those are dangerous words you are saying.
+The bible is a bit younger, though the Scriptures were around that long I suppose. But in you saying that, do you think that Jesus came and died for our sins because the Father loved us? Your icon says Anglican but you say something I normally hear from not-so hostile atheists.

On topic, I read through that stuff in Matthew about why people do not marry before I read that, so my reaction was like "Wha?" I didn't make a big deal about it and kept reading, but then again, this is not my struggle.

Phinehas2 · Sep 20, 2007

Well before I was a Christian none of the passages particuarly bothered me, when I gave my life to the Lord obviously some bothered me because I realised certain aspects of my lifestyle needed to change and I couldnt justify them any more. .. of course for me the passages that show same-sex sex was error werent among the challenges

Phinehas2 · Sep 20, 2007

Dear Ishida,

Your icon says Anglican but you say something I normally hear from not-so hostile atheists

But this is a good point becuase under the current forum rules hostile athesits can call themselves Christian.

Zaac · Sep 20, 2007

artybloke said:
The Bible was written 2000 years old. It has no relevance on the matter. Id no more go to the Bible for advice on morals than I would for advice on diet.

It actually addresses your diet too.

Are you a Christian Arty?

artybloke · Sep 21, 2007

Are you a Christian Arty?

I'm a follower of Christ. The Bible points me to Christ. However, it doesn't tell me how to live my life, what to eat or drink, what correct science is, or what I should think about history. It's a book of stories that point to Christ. In so far as it points to Christ, it's useful. But it's not a book of rules.

If I want to find out how to live my life, or what to think about certain moral issues, I do some reading around the subject, maybe enter a few discussions, think a lot, make a decision as to what I think and live with it. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'm usually open to a certain amount of changing my opinion if I think I've been shown to be wrong.

Quoting out-of-context scriptures without reference to both the context of the passage or the context of the time it was written, or my own context as a human being in Western Europe in the 21st century, matters not a jot to me.

If you want to continue to treat the words of the Bible as some kind of magic formula that's entirely up to you.

I live under love, not law.

Phinehas2 · Sep 21, 2007

Dear Artybloke,
I would say on the contrary, the Bible doesnt just point us to Jesus, it is the testimony of Jesus and Jesus says in the Bible that if we obey His commands and teaching He will remain in us and we will be in Him. John 15. So for followers of Christ, Christ does tell us how to live our lives, otherwise we arent followers of Christ.

Quoting out-of-context scriptures without reference to both the context of the passage or the context of the time it was written, or my own context as a human being in Western Europe in the 21st century, matters not a jot to me.

We can read Jesus commands in the Bible, in context. The love that the Bible describes is the same as it is today because it was demonstrated.

If you want to continue to treat the words of the Bible as some kind of magic formula that's entirely up to you.

Well Jesus taught that His words are Spirit and life, I wouldnt call it 'magic' or a 'formula' but it is supernatural. Jesus also taught that all scripture is useful and God breathed, living and active.

I live under love, not law.

Ok but has your love anything to do with the love of God and is the law you don't live under anything to do with God's law?

AetheriusLamia · Sep 21, 2007

HaloHope said:
I really didnt take it in. When I read the verses in question at the same time to me they simply didnt condemn homosexuality. It was other Christians who told me they did. Which is why I believe it is people who say homosexuality is a sin, not the Bible.

I felt exactly the same. I was very sheltered as a child, and the issue of homosexuality didn't arise until late in high school, when I met homosexuals, and my mother began reacting to "the homosexual agenda" she began seeing on television.

I began researching the matter, looked up the passages quoted, and none of them I saw to be condemning homosexuality. Thus my presence here, and my webpage. I'm trying to understand what people see that I don't see.

artybloke · Sep 21, 2007

Ok but has your love anything to do with the love of God and is the law you don't live under anything to do with God's law?

a) the love of God = love of our neighbour b) God doesn't write laws. Human beings write laws. Then they tell everyone that God wrote them.

We can read Jesus commands in the Bible, in context.

And, in context, Jesus says nothing about homosexuality.

david_x · Sep 21, 2007

What was your initial reaction?

When you first heard the passages that supposively condemn homosexuality? Keep in mind that I'm not out to try and prove what those verses are saying / the context they should be given. Bottom line is all of us heard some of these verses and in whatever way, reacted to them. I simply want to hear how you reacted when hearing them. For me When I first heard some of these verses I went through a period of just not understanding God. I mean here I was in 7th grade, I didn't choose to feel sexually attracted to men, and then here are these verses which initially I just took as God telling me these feelings were sinful (again what conclusion of these verses you have made thus far may be different than the conclusion I made at the time), I was actually quite mad at the whole situation. I didn't understand how the deep intimate love for another man could be sinful. As I begin to understand where my hearts desires and intents are things begin to become more clear to me. I still am searching for what answers God has for me and the journey is far from over.

So that was my initial reaction, but how did you first react to it?

This seems like a very normal reaction. What society has taught you is contradicticting what God has taught us. That is actually a good thing. What is right is clashing with worldly ideals.

savedandhappy1 · Sep 21, 2007

artybloke said:
a) the love of God = love of our neighbour b) God doesn't write laws. Human beings write laws. Then they tell everyone that God wrote them.

God wrote the 10 commandments with His finger, so I'm alittle confused why you would call them mans laws.

On the subject for this thread...... I guess I am just alittle weird because when I read the scriptures one sin didn't stand out more than any of the others. Say like in Romans, there are a list of sins, not just one, and the punishment is the same for all of them. So I find it strange that one would just get stuck on one of them when reading them for the first time.

artybloke · Sep 22, 2007

God wrote the 10 commandments with His finger, so I'm alittle confused why you would call them mans laws.

Or rather, the writer who wrote the 10 commandments several centuries after Moses had died, said that God wrote them with his fingers...

It ain't necessarily so
The things that you're liable
To read in the Bible
It ain't necessarily so

Ohioprof · Sep 22, 2007

artybloke said:
a) the love of God = love of our neighbour b) God doesn't write laws. Human beings write laws. Then they tell everyone that God wrote them.

And, in context, Jesus says nothing about homosexuality.

Amen.

What was your initial reaction?

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Deal with it.

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