What was Instituted at creation?

[Cribstyl]

If sabbath was instituted at creation for all of mankind, why was it given 2500yrs later as a sign to seperate one nation called Israel from all other nations of the world, if sabbath was ever instituted at creation?


It is evident today and scriptually, that marriage was instituted at creation.

Did God's original plan for the sabbath fail or are commentaries wrong and the scriptures accurate?

Exd 31:17It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.


Why did not God hint that it was for all of mankind?
The scriptures say clearly...... it was commanded for one nation to keep.

Eze 20:12Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I [am] the LORD that sanctify them.

Eze 20:20And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.

Why cant we say what God sayeth about the sabbath rather than what commentary declares?

 

[Joe67]

If sabbath was instituted at creation for all of mankind, why was it given 2500yrs later as a sign to seperate one nation called Israel from all other nations of the world, if sabbath was ever instituted at creation?


It is evident today and scriptually, that marriage was instituted at creation.

Did God's original plan for the sabbath fail or are commentaries wrong and the scriptures accurate?

Exd 31:17It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.


Why did not God hint that it was for all of mankind?
The scriptures say clearly...... it was commanded for one nation to keep.

Eze 20:12Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I [am] the LORD that sanctify them.

Eze 20:20And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.

Why cant we say what God sayeth about the sabbath rather than what commentary declares?

CRIB,

Here is a witness from our Lord concerning the sabbath day.

Matt 24:19-22
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. KJV

Presently among the professed followers of the Lord Jesus who have a clear Biblical presentation of the election, most of them are not interested in sabbath as a 7th day of the week event. Most clear Biblical teachers of election and grace with foreknowledge worship on the 1st day of the week.

SdAs do not stand out in the forefront concerning the teaching of election as plainly stated in Romans 9. Election is taught in Romans 9 as clearly and simply as deliverance from Egyptian bondage and the sabbath day is taught in Exodus 20.

SdAs need to "explain" election and foreknowledge, just as teachers of the Biblical authority of election and foreknowledge need to "explain" the sabbath day.

The Lord in his own time and way will clear both of these issues of hypocrisy and sorcery. These issues will be cut off and burnt out from the body of Christ by his own wisdom and ways above and beyond man's doing and explaining. Then all will "know" that Jesus is the Lord of the earth and the sabbath. Then he will remember our sins and iniquities no more. He will blot them out by a thick cloud. It will be a day like no other, neither light nor dark, known only to the Lord. We will cover our faces.

Joe

 

[Cribstyl]

Joe, you're off the topic about the sabbath or ten commandments being instituted at creation.
.....................................................................................................................

This thread may seem as an attack to some people, but it's not.
If anything, this thread is to present what the bible declares verses what commentary would have you believe.
I'll take all the criticsm but let God's word be true.

 

[Cribstyl]

K4c and others are quick to start up commentary threads, then they provide no answers when direct questions are asked about text they reference.

Commentary is like a slide going downhill, once you get on it, you're going for a ride.

Here is a chance for anyone to provide a mustard grain of evidence that sabbath is a creation ordinance.

 

[StormyOne]

Crib, as this is the progressive section, I doubt very seriously that any of the regular progressive thinkers would even attempt to defend that faulty premise... now you might get plenty of more traditional thinkers taking you up on your question....

 

[Restin]

If sabbath was instituted at creation for all of mankind, why was it given 2500yrs later as a sign to seperate one nation called Israel from all other nations of the world, if sabbath was ever instituted at creation?

Yes, according to the plan of God's creation week...'sabbath' was instituted after God's work of creating was 'finished'. What was given to Moses 2500 years after the account in Genesis, is only 'symbolic' of the real sabbath. The real 'sabbath' that comes after God's work is totally 'finished', according to Gen 2:1-3, has NOT happened yet!

It is evident today and scriptually, that marriage was instituted at creation.

What is 'evident' today in the word of God, is the marriage between Christ and His bride...again, that has NOT happened yet, either. Adam and Eve were type, symbolic, shadow, of the real thing, yet to happen.

Did God's original plan for the sabbath fail or are commentaries wrong and the scriptures accurate?

Commentaries...? Human nature has ways to multiply and add to TRUTH, thus the commentaries exist to keep us eating around the tree of knowledge of good and evil! To understand the real, literal, physical creation, like a grain of mustard the 'evidence' starts in Gen 2:4

Genesis 2:4
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created,
in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, KJV

 

[k4c]

Cribstyl;If sabbath was instituted at creation for all of mankind, why was it given 2500yrs later as a sign to seperate one nation called Israel from all other nations of the world, if sabbath was ever instituted at creation?

The Sabbath, along with adultery, murder, lying, stealing and so on, was made known to a fallen people who God had chosen to represent His will to the world. The Sabbath separates all people of God from other people who do not worship the God of creation.

Isaiah 56:6-7 As for the Gentiles, the outsiders who join the people of the Lord and serve him and love his name, and are his servants and don't desecrate the Sabbath, and have accepted his covenant and promises, I will bring them also to my holy mountain of Jerusalem, and make them full of joy within my House of Prayer.I will accept their sacrifices and offerings, for my Temple shall be called "A House of Prayer for All People''!

It is evident today and scriptually, that marriage was instituted at creation.

Did mankind honor marriage to one woman after creation? No they did not. Did mankind honor the Sabbath after God blessed it, sanctified and called it holy? No they did not. Does that mean marriage and the Sabbath are void? Not it does not.

When God called a people to represent Him and His will for mankind it does not mean all other people are not included. When Jesus came He made it possible for all people to be part of God's chosen people.

Ephesians 2:11-13 Physically you are not Jewish. Those who have been physically circumcised called you "the uncircumcised.'' Do you remember? At that time you were without Christ. You were foreigners. You could not be part of Israel. You were strangers to the agreements of promise. You had no hope. You were in the world without God. You used to be far away, but now, in Christ Jesus, you have come near. This was by the blood of Christ.

Did God's original plan for the sabbath fail or are commentaries wrong and the scriptures accurate?

Exd 31:17It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Man sinned and fell away from God, as a result, death, murder, lies, adultery, Sabbath forgetters and so on have grown mighty.

Why did not God hint that it was for all of mankind?
The scriptures say clearly...... it was commanded for one nation to keep.

Eze 20:12Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I [am] the LORD that sanctify them.

Eze 20:20And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.

God blessed, sanctifed and called holy the seventh day of creation before there was even a nation. These words mean something to God and they should mean something to all mankind.

Why cant we say what God sayeth about the sabbath rather than what commentary declares?

This is what God says about the Sabbath.

Notice who is to honor the Sabbath, our sons, daughters, servants, cattle, strangers.

Exodus 20:8-11 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Leviticus 23:3 You will work for six days, but the seventh will be a day of complete rest, a day for the sacred assembly on which you do no work at all. Wherever you live, this is a Sabbath for the LORD.

 

[Cribstyl]

Yes, according to the plan of God's creation week...'sabbath' was instituted after God's work of creating was 'finished'. What was given to Moses 2500 years after the account in Genesis, is only 'symbolic' of the real sabbath. The real 'sabbath' that comes after God's work is totally 'finished', according to Gen 2:1-3, has NOT happened yet!

Truth is, what was given to Moses is exactly what Jesus claimed was made for man.(-Mar 2:27 )
It's a slight to edit the word "mankind" into that text, so it can appear to revert back to creation rather than Sinai. (Have mercy God)

God's rested-(shabath v) from creation was an "ending", or a "ceasing", as the word rest defines. God finished all the worlds in six days . No time duration is kept when when you're finish. No second round.
What was Adam's part in creation?
Why include man when text is only talking about the creative acts of God?

God did not "shabbath (n)" because sabbath is a day of rest which begin at sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. God did not resume work the following day, so factually, He made no pattern for man to follow. Nor is there an institution for man to follow. It's all fabricated commentary.

What is 'evident' today in the word of God, is the marriage between Christ and His bride...again, that has NOT happened yet, either. Adam and Eve were type, symbolic, shadow, of the real thing, yet to happen.

No comment

Commentaries...? Human nature has ways to multiply and add to TRUTH, thus the commentaries exist to keep us eating around the tree of knowledge of good and evil! To understand the real, literal, physical creation, like a grain of mustard the 'evidence' starts in Gen 2:4

[/quote] There is no truth but God's word...that's why no man was ever to eat of the tree of knowlege of good and evil after Adam and Eve.


With all due respects, thanks for making an effort to reply.

CRIB

 

[Cribstyl]

The Sabbath, along with adultery, murder, lying, stealing and so on, was made known to a fallen people who God had chosen to represent His will to the world. The Sabbath separates all people of God from other people who do not worship the God of creation.

Isaiah 56:6-7 As for the Gentiles, the outsiders who join the people of the Lord and serve him and love his name, and are his servants and don't desecrate the Sabbath, and have accepted his covenant and promises, I will bring them also to my holy mountain of Jerusalem, and make them full of joy within my House of Prayer.I will accept their sacrifices and offerings, for my Temple shall be called "A House of Prayer for All People''!



Did mankind honor marriage to one woman after creation? No they did not. Did mankind honor the Sabbath after God blessed it, sanctified and called it holy? No they did not. Does that mean marriage and the Sabbath are void? Not it does not.

When God called a people to represent Him and His will for mankind it does not mean all other people are not included. When Jesus came He made it possible for all people to be part of God's chosen people.

Ephesians 2:11-13 Physically you are not Jewish. Those who have been physically circumcised called you "the uncircumcised.'' Do you remember? At that time you were without Christ. You were foreigners. You could not be part of Israel. You were strangers to the agreements of promise. You had no hope. You were in the world without God. You used to be far away, but now, in Christ Jesus, you have come near. This was by the blood of Christ.



Man sinned and fell away from God, as a result, death, murder, lies, adultery, Sabbath forgetters and so on have grown mighty.



God blessed, sanctifed and called holy the seventh day of creation before there was even a nation. These words mean something to God and they should mean something to all mankind.

This is what God says about the Sabbath.

Notice who is to honor the Sabbath, our sons, daughters, servants, cattle, strangers.

Exodus 20:8-11 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Leviticus 23:3 You will work for six days, but the seventh will be a day of complete rest, a day for the sacred assembly on which you do no work at all. Wherever you live, this is a Sabbath for the LORD.

Do you really think that the text you used justifies your comments?
Your comments contradicts too many scriptures to count.

Paul's understanding of the creation scriptures cause him to declare that; #1 sin was in the world before the law. It was not accounted as breaking of law, because there was no law. Rom 5:13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. My additional comments to that text are; "Sin was labelled as "sin"according to the words used in scripture when Cain thought to kill Abel.
Sin was labelled as "wickedness, "evil," "vain imagination" according to the words used in scripture that explains why God to send the flood to wipe out humanity on earth.
There is no hint that man broke God's law and sabbath, or your commentary would be correct." If there was a law declared we'd all be aware of what God commanded in creation.

The text proves that free will and dominion given to man, was corrupted by Adam's sin, and man mostly chose evil over good. Moses wrote as follows;
Gen 6:5¶And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. )

Did God say....They wont keep my commandments? NO!!!!

Paul further explains what Genesis through Exodus also proves...Rom 5:14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

So we can understand that God did judged sin, from Adam to Moses and the penalty of sin was death.

I expect you and others to apply your commentary to the word "trangression" as if a law was given, but the scripture is explaining the opposite.

The question is asked:Gal 3:19 Why serveth the law?
Paul explains elsewhere that the law came 430yrs after the promises to Abraham because of transgression of the Children of Israel.
Paul explains here that the law served until the seed came.


Teachers are called to give understanding to the scriptures not to contradict and add to God's word by commentary.

 

[StormyOne]

LOL.... see.....

 

[k4c]

Do you really think that the text you used justifies your comments?
Your comments contradicts too many scriptures to count.

Paul's understanding of the creation scriptures cause him to declare that; #1 sin was in the world before the law. It was not accounted as breaking of law, because there was no law. Rom 5:13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. My additional comments to that text are; "Sin was labelled as "sin"according to the words used in scripture when Cain thought to kill Abel.
Sin was labelled as "wickedness, "evil," "vain imagination" according to reasonable words used in scripture that caused God to send the flood.
There is no hint that man broke God's law and sabbath, or your commentary would be correct."

The text proves that free will and dominion given to man, was corrupted by Adam sin and man chose evil over good. Moses wrote as follows;
Gen 6:5¶And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. )

Paul further explains what Genesis through Exodus also proves...Rom 5:14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

So we can understand that God did judged sin from Adam to Moses and the penalty was death.
I expect you and others to apply your commentary to the word "trangression" as if a law was given, but the scripture is explaining the opposite.

The question is asked:Gal 3:19 Why serveth the law?
Paul explains elsewhere that the law came 430yrs after the promises to Abraham because of transgression of the Children of Israel.
Paul explains here that the law served until the seed came.


Teachers are called to give understanding to the scriptures not to contradict and add to God's word by commentary.

Sin was sin before the Sinai and was punished before the Sinai. God even destroyed most of mankind through a flood because of sin.

If murder was a sin before Sinai and a Law was enacted to keep it a sin after Sinai then the sin of murder was sin as part of creation.

If the seventh day was made holy before Sinai and a Law was enacted to keep it holy after Sinai then the Sabbath was part of creation.

Jesus would never make something God called holy, unholy.

Ezekiel 22:26 "Her priests have violated My law and profaned My holy things; they have not distinguished between the holy and unholy, nor have they made known the difference between the unclean and the clean; and they have hidden their eyes from My Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.

Jesus was made Lord of the same day God blessed at creation.

Mark 2:28 "Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.''

Jesus is Lord of THE Sabbath...THE Sabbath...THE Sabbath...THE Sabbath.

The word (THE) is identifying the Sabbath of creation.

Now if Jesus is your Lord and the Sabbath is the Lord's day then the Sabbath should be our day too.

During Jesus' ministry He never did away with the Sabbath for if He did His followers would not have continued to obeyed the fourth commandment after Jesus' death.

Luke 23:56 They returned and prepared spices and perfumed oils. Then they rested on the sabbath according to the commandment.

They would not have had to obey the fourth commandment after Jesus' death if it was done away with by Jesus while He was alive. Now that the testator has died we cannot make changes to the will or covenant.

Hebrews 9:17 The will goes into effect only after the death of the person who wrote it. While he is still alive no one can use it to get any of those things he has promised them.

See how simple it is...

 

[VictorC]

If the seventh day was made holy before Sinai and a Law was enacted to keep it holy after Sinai then the Sabbath was part of creation.

You have drawn a conclusion that isn't related to the premise that you wrote. No law was ever enacted to make the seventh day of creation holy - God ended His labor that day and blessed the day itself. This was God's rest, and you have apparently confused it with something that repeated.

The sabbath repeated, and the rest it gave was temporal.
The seventh day never repeated, and God's rest was permanent.

You didn't respond to Mark 2:27, used as a basis for this thread's OP, that shows that the sabbath was made for man. It was not God's rest.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Sin was sin before the Sinai and was punished before the Sinai.

I agree. Since we know that the law was added 430 years after Abraham, then it is clear that sin can exist in the absence of law.

Jesus would never make something God called holy, unholy.

God called all of His convocations holy. How many of them do you observe?

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

What was Instituted at creation?

In terms of "convocations," "observances" or "sabbaths," I've found no evidence that anything was instituted at creation.

BFA

 

[k4c]

I agree. Since we know that the law was added 430 years after Abraham, then it is clear that sin can exist in the absence of law.

BFA

Just because the Law was added does not mean it was not part of creation. Remember, it was added because of transgression, which means people were violating them and receiving punishment before they were written down.

God called all of His convocations holy. How many of them do you observe?

We observe them all in a spiritual way because they reveal God's plan of salvation. But don't confuse the holy days that came as a result of sin with the seventh day of creation, which came before sin and was part of creation itself. Sin was not part of creation.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Just because the Law was added does not mean it was not part of creation. Remember, it was added because of transgression, which means people were violating them and receiving punishment before they were written down.

How do you add something that you already had?

We observe them all in a spiritual way because they reveal God's plan of salvation. But don't confuse the holy days that came as a result of sin with the seventh day of creation, which came before sin and was part of creation itself. Sin was not part of creation.

Can you share with us how you've been able to get around PETA so that you're able to build an altar and offer burnt sacrifices? Where do you offer them? In your back yard?

BFA

 

[Restin]

Just because the Law was added does not mean it was not part of creation.

The law as given at Mt. Sinai was 'added', and as given at Sinai, is not part of creation as given in Genesis 1.

Remember, it was added because of transgression, which means people were violating them and receiving punishment before they were written down.

The law (commandment) given to Adam and Eve was not 'added' on the basis of their own transgression, as they had none. After transgression and sin, Adam and Eve were taken out of the Garden of Eden, but what they had partaken from the tree of knowledge of good and evil came with them outside the gate, and bore fruit when Cain killed Abel, then Adam and Eve saw the fruit of this tree!

The same law 'thou shalt not...eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil', exist today in the flesh of all humanity and is called the 'law of sin and death'. NO ONE, neither Gentile or Jew, rich or poor can by pass this law, till God replaces our mortal flesh with immortality!

We observe them all in a spiritual way because they reveal God's plan of salvation. But don't confuse the holy days that came as a result of sin with the seventh day of creation, which came before sin and was part of creation itself.

God told Adam 'Gen 2:17 ...in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Did Adam 'DIE' as God has said he would... Gen 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

YES, Adam did die IN THE DAY, that he ATE of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Through Peter...God tells us not to be 'IGNORANT' of the work of our LORD....

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Sin was not part of creation.

Genesis 1:1 through 2:3 is God's prophetic 1day=1,000year work, and as such, sin is not part of God's 'finished' work regarding His creation.

Starting in Gen 2:4 creation takes a different picture...and now comes the command, 'DON'T EAT', which is not part of creation in genesis 1.

Even as Adam and Eve did not 'SEE' their nakedness because of their blindness, their 'ignorance', so we too are blind and ignorant of God's work of creating us in 'IN CHRIST' and thereby 'IN the IMAGE of GOD' both male and female, as in Gen 1:26,27!

 

[VictorC]

God called all of His convocations holy. How many of them do you observe?

We observe them all in a spiritual way because they reveal God's plan of salvation.

Does "a spiritual way" indicate that you don't observe them at all?
If not...
Please provide evidence of your circumcision in the flesh, and a restored Levitical priesthood making all those burnt offerings necessary.

Exodus 12:48 And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it.

But don't confuse the holy days that came as a result of sin with the seventh day of creation, which came before sin and was part of creation itself. Sin was not part of creation.

Don't you consider it deceptive to use the name "seventh day of creation" when everyone here knows that you're referencing the sabbath instead? The sabbath wasn't ordained until about the 900,000th day of creation.

 

[Cribstyl]

The law as given at Mt. Sinai was 'added', and as given at Sinai, is not part of creation as given in Genesis 1.

Excellent Correct understanding.

The context of the phrase "the law was added "....conveys that the law was added to the promises given to Abraham not to Adam. clickGal 3:15-19 ....verse 18 goes on to explain that; if the law was a condition then it cant be by promise.

Just because the Law was added does not mean it was not part of creation. Remember, it was added because of transgression, which means people were violating them and receiving punishment before they were written down.

Dude, apply the scriptures to understanding given in the context of the text you quote from and stop contradicting God's word.

We will call you out on it.

Respectfully
CRIB

 

[Cribstyl]

Why is it clear, that before the COI left Egypt, they were commanded to keep Passover and Circumcision and even the stranger were called out to keep these two events as laws? Why no clue about a creation instituted sabbath?

The sands of time is running out on commentary.
The word of God will stand forever.