What translations and churches are closest to reality?

[Mr. Fields]

Greetings,

Former "KJV only" guy here...

In your opinion, what English translation is closest to being accurate and true to the original language, and what do you base your opinion on?

Is there no such beast? To truly know how it reads, must you learn the original languages and read the original texts yourself?

Also, how does one go about finding like-minded believers or a church?

I thought I was the only one who thought the way I do, but after coming to this board, I realize that isn't the case. Currently my family and I attend a foursquare church. I like the people as well as any church, and they don't seem to be elitists like the last church we were in, but I am torn because I know my beliefs are much different at this point. I don't really mind, myself, but I know that at some point I'm going to end up sharing my beliefs and it may well turn into heartache again because I am rejected. That's always how it's been the past few years. I don't fit in because I go against the grain.

Quite frankly, if it weren't for my wife, I wouldn't go to church at all. On two time periods over the past five years when we became completely disgusted over church politics, we had "church" at home. Once we did this with another family. I miss the worship music though. At home it's not quite the same.

 

[coyoteBR]

Personally, I think you should attend the church you're more confortable with. The one with the message that speaks stronger in your heart and reason. In other words... go search. God is so Generous His Truth, His Message is everywhere.

 

[Arikereba]

Greetings,

Former "KJV only" guy here...

In your opinion, what English translation is closest to being accurate and true to the original language, and what do you base your opinion on?

Is there no such beast? To truly know how it reads, must you learn the original languages and read the original texts yourself?

There's no such thing as a perfect translation. There are always a few concepts that just don't translate well, from language to language; there are concepts that don't survive the cultural barriers; there are ambiguous words. But that's not to say that we can't "truly know how it reads." Even if the words are different, the meaning is the same. To take an example from modern literature, if I read either translation of the novel "Norwegian Wood," I get a story about lost idealism, lost love, college life in 1960s Japan, and the alienation of modern life. One translation might have slightly more poetry in it; one translation might stick a little closer to the original text; but no matter which translation I read, it's the same story. And I think, if you look at the same chapter in a couple of different translations, it's clear that it's the same story (the exceptions would be a few translations like the NWT, which is published by Jehovah's Witnesses, and paraphrases like "The Message"--I feel like these add a little too much personal interpretation, rather than just relying on what the original text says). The NIV, the NASB, and the NRSV are all pretty reliable--and others, too. Certainly the KJV is, but the gap in comprehension between 16th century English and 21st century English is wide enough so that I don't feel like I could get the full meaning of the text.

I don't think the solution is to learn the original languages, either. That won't necessarily bring you any closer to the original meaning of the text. I've been studying Japanese for six years now, and I still wouldn't say that I understand Japanese texts nearly as well as the majority of professional translators do. Some words are ambiguous and do have a big range of meaning, but I think you can get that more easily by comparing translations and reading textual commentaries.

 

[Angelajt]

Greetings,

Former "KJV only" guy here...

In your opinion, what English translation is closest to being accurate and true to the original language, and what do you base your opinion on?

Is there no such beast? To truly know how it reads, must you learn the original languages and read the original texts yourself?

Also, how does one go about finding like-minded believers or a church?

I thought I was the only one who thought the way I do, but after coming to this board, I realize that isn't the case. Currently my family and I attend a foursquare church. I like the people as well as any church, and they don't seem to be elitists like the last church we were in, but I am torn because I know my beliefs are much different at this point. I don't really mind, myself, but I know that at some point I'm going to end up sharing my beliefs and it may well turn into heartache again because I am rejected. That's always how it's been the past few years. I don't fit in because I go against the grain.

Quite frankly, if it weren't for my wife, I wouldn't go to church at all. On two time periods over the past five years when we became completely disgusted over church politics, we had "church" at home. Once we did this with another family. I miss the worship music though. At home it's not quite the same.

You are in awesome company....As far as translations..none perfect, but the amplified gives enough words and info that it gives more of the full meaning.

After 10 years of christianity I have just found a church that i fit into. because of my beliefs i was ridiculed and kept distance from. i believe it was our of fear and conviction.

when you believe differnt then the statis quo, God is speaking and dealing with you and you are reacting. Most react by going with tradition and what they feel is safe.

When you believe God and not people.. you are going to be used. This isolation period that you are going through is going to help you in the future. It will help you to keep what God tells you and look for the approval of him instead of people. Some people would say it is a lonely place, but once you get into an intimacy with God like never before...you actually prefer it to social friends.

 

[fragmentsofdreams]

Every translation has places where they err. For example, the NRSV, which I often use for research, downplays terror of the disciples when Jesus calms the storm.

However, while no Bible is perfect, there are some translations that are not suitable for study. Almost always, a meaning for meaning translation (a translation that takes liberties with the wording while trying to convey the meaning of the text) are not suitable for study because they have the translator's interpretation woven in. Since many translators have strong theological views, this will taint your reading.

Also, I would avoid the KJV simply because the differences between Old English and modern English would cause problems even if it is a good translation and avoid the NIV because I have seen some examples of where the translators have added words to "clarify" the meaning when they are really rewriting verses in order to remove things that contradict their viewpoint.

 

[Arnold_Philips]

I like my New Jerusalem. Good for the skeptic and the believer.

 

[Fideist]

Greetings,

Former "KJV only" guy here...

In your opinion, what English translation is closest to being accurate and true to the original language, and what do you base your opinion on?

Is there no such beast? To truly know how it reads, must you learn the original languages and read the original texts yourself?

Also, how does one go about finding like-minded believers or a church?

I thought I was the only one who thought the way I do, but after coming to this board, I realize that isn't the case. Currently my family and I attend a foursquare church. I like the people as well as any church, and they don't seem to be elitists like the last church we were in, but I am torn because I know my beliefs are much different at this point. I don't really mind, myself, but I know that at some point I'm going to end up sharing my beliefs and it may well turn into heartache again because I am rejected. That's always how it's been the past few years. I don't fit in because I go against the grain.

Quite frankly, if it weren't for my wife, I wouldn't go to church at all. On two time periods over the past five years when we became completely disgusted over church politics, we had "church" at home. Once we did this with another family. I miss the worship music though. At home it's not quite the same.

When I hear these questions, I normally recommend the JPS (post 1970 versions) Tanakh for people who want to read the MT (Old testament or Jewish Bible) as translated by the decendants of the people who wrote it. I like the New Jerusalem for the NT, and recommend the New Oxford Annotated if a person is going to have just one version. But if you are used to the KJV and know its weaknesses, what’s wrong with that one? You could always go online and search a Bible site for other ways of translating individual passages. I would also suggest a single volume commentary such as The New Jerome or Harpers, but those can be expensive!



As far as a church goes, how about a middle of the road mainline denomination? Methodist churches are generally good. So are Disciples of Christ. If you really like to think for yourself, how about the Quakers? The religious tolerance site lists the churches (or used to) in their varying degrees of liberal/conservatism. You might try looking there for some ideas. http://www.religioustolerance.org/



Turning to finding like minded people, I’d try some inter-church Bible study or try forming your own bible study. A lot of times the way people approach the Bible and the study of it will say a lot. Maybe borrow a volume of the Anchor Bible or Interpreters Bible from a library and see how people respond to scholarly commentary? I find that those who shudder and can’t wait to leave, are the one’s that would rather not do much exploring!



Best of luck in your search!

 

[jessedance]

My favorite is Rotherham's emphasised bible. it's no longer in print but if you look around you can find it. its quite a literal translation.
the asv is has the least trinitarian interpolations of scritpures in it. and also is very good. but all translations get some verses right when most others don't. even very liberal translations will get some verses right when others don't. sometimes translators aren;t being honest with themslefs and at other times they are and it comes out in their tranlsation. what ever doctrine a translator holds will influence his translation of some verses.

 

[PaladinValer]

All translations have their quirks.

NASB is an ultra-formal equivalence translation, making it very good for study, but because its literalness, it misses out on hyperbole, metaphore, idioms, and symbolism.
NIV is a dynamic equivalence translation, making it easy to read and is based on good sources, but the translator's personal interpretations are a part of the text; in other words, the NIV sometimes gives you an interpretation of the text instead of the text. It also advocates some questionable ideas that is arguably outside orthodox theology.
LB is a paraphrase, not a translation. It is basically the translator's interpretation of the entire Bible. Its update, the NLB, is better (its a dynamic equivalence translation), but still interprets more than translates.
NRSV is an (as I like to call it) idiomatically-correct formal-equivalence translation. It is based on excellent resources, but, while it normally uses "gender-neutralisms" correctly, it does sometimes steps out of bounds.

I personally suggest the RSV in combination with the NRSV. Why?

1. Both were translated by a multidenominational committee of Catholics, Protestants, Calvinists, and one Eastern Orthodox and Jewish member.
2. The NRSV used some of the most recent (1989) discoveries (not much since; they'd make a new translation if there were).
3. Both are formal equivalence (RSV especially)
4. The NRSV is idiomatically-correct (RSV is lesser so, but more than the KJV or NASB)
5. NRSV is easy to read and excellent for study with the RSV for suggestive alternatives with the old "beholds" added back in.

 

[UberLutheran]

BibleWorks is not one translation -- it's a number of translations, including the Bible in various foreign languages (including the original Greek and Hebrew); and the really neat thing about it is that you can search on any word in any translation and it will find all occurances of that word -- AND find all available definitions and morphological breakdowns of that word in each passage!

It costs a bit (around $400), but it is absolutely worth its weight in GOLD!

As to which is the "right" church -- after 2,000 years, and considering the oldest known copies of the Scriptures are 1,500 years old -- it's going to be difficult to recreate "authenticity" and I don't think it's necessary.

There are as many ways to "intepret" Scripture as there are Christians on Earth; and each Christian has a different "core" of Scriptures which forms the cornerstone of his/her interpretation of other Scriptures. There is no completely "right" interpretation of Scripture -- which is why liberal Christians and fundamentalists are so often at loggerheads; and why Calvinists and Arminians have trouble comprehending what is so important, spiritually, to each other -- even to the point of being unable to form much in the way of a common spiritual language.

I'm spritually fed in the Lutheran church -- but that's no reason for a Baptist to stop being a Baptist, or a Catholic to stop being a Catholic, or a Calvinist to stop being a Calvinist.

 

[Serapha]

Hi there!



I'm King James "preferred"...

What I would want to add to the discussion is that eveyone is identifying the "error" in different translations...

It is not that there is error in the modern translations. Before a translation is attempted, a translation committe is formed and they decide the philosophy for that translation... say "word-for-word" translation or "thought-for-thougth" translation. They determine a reading level, which, when that is established, they stay within the parameters fo that age for reading. While an accurate rendering for a word might be "God forbid" as in Romans 6:3 (KJV), but it is translated "certainly not!" in the NIV. Those are totally different words, but so is the reading level.


The point is this... it is not that a translation is good or bad, but to learn what the philosophy of the translation is. If the philosophy does not fit your demand, then don't use it.... but that doesn't mean that there isn't a targeted audience where the reader will benefit from the translation.


The exceptions to this are translations that are designed entirely for a church denomination where the Bible is written to fit the theology, or when there is just "one" translator... then the book becomes an opinion of the author.


I hope this helps in your understanding of different translations... check the link here for a better understand, and read the philosophy of the translation.


http://www.zondervanbibles.com/translations.htm


~serapha~

 

[Serapha]

Quite frankly, if it weren't for my wife, I wouldn't go to church at all. On two time periods over the past five years when we became completely disgusted over church politics, we had "church" at home. Once we did this with another family. I miss the worship music though. At home it's not quite the same.

Hi there!



The lesson learned... don't get involved in church politics.


They did a survey about 4-5 years ago concerning churches that were growing rapidly and the only common denominator, and it was not dependent upon doctrine, was that the faster-growing churches were those that expressed the most love.

Now... cultic churches can express a tremendous amount of love, and they remain some of the fastest growing churches in the country... People want to be "loved" wherever they are in their religious growth.

That doesn't necessarily lead them to a "true" church, but it will give them satisfaction and "feel good" fellowship.


<grin>

I go for truth... and many times, it just doesn't feel good to "squirm" because the truth hits home.


~serapha~

 

[Mr. Fields]

Hi there!



I go for truth... and many times, it just doesn't feel good to "squirm" because the truth hits home.

Well, I hear you on that. Truth is what I've been looking for. Unfortunately it seems to me that every church (at least every one I've ever been involved in) interprets Scripture the way they see fit.

For example, many churches will still use Paul's writing in the NT to condemn people who divorce, yet they will freely allow people to do other things that Paul condemned in the same context. That's one example of many....

Quite honestly, I see too many contradictions in the Scriptures as we know them, the more I study them and study church history.

At this point, I'm not sure what to believe, other than I still believe in God as my creator and that He does love me and care about me. Other than that, I just don't know.

 

[kerux]

I have a parallel Bible that I enjoy using. It has the KJV-Formal thought for thought, NIV-Easier to read-thought for though, NLT-Informal-good for evangelism, and the NASB-Deep-word for word. I prefer reading from the NASB, yet with the other translations there, I can check and see what they say on any verse I am reading. It is nice to have them side by side.

 

[Angelajt]

Well, I hear you on that. Truth is what I've been looking for. Unfortunately it seems to me that every church (at least every one I've ever been involved in) interprets Scripture the way they see fit.

For example, many churches will still use Paul's writing in the NT to condemn people who divorce, yet they will freely allow people to do other things that Paul condemned in the same context. That's one example of many....

Quite honestly, I see too many contradictions in the Scriptures as we know them, the more I study them and study church history.

At this point, I'm not sure what to believe, other than I still believe in God as my creator and that He does love me and care about me. Other than that, I just don't know.

I know what you mean...you have to take teaching from others with a grain of salt....but...one thing I have learned is when I do hear truth...the truth thermometer on the inside of me goes off and gets excited. Some pastors will teach some truth but do not have any faith in it....then my truth themometer just agrees and encourges me to seek more.

The divorce thing is doctrin that churches use to try to make themselves stand out from the rest of the world....But really, those that are in Christ are no longer under the law. When you are dead...you are not under the law...therefore you are free to do as the spirit leads without guilt. I seek my teaching from the Holy Spirit...Only the Holy Spirit has been able to answer questions that have plagued me for so long....The problem is...when the Holy Spirit teaches me these things and I share it with others who question the same thing but are afraid to question God...they get defensive and angry at me....Go figure...the only difference is they are trying to convince me of something they don't totally have faith in and all I'm doing is sharing what the Holy Spirit has given me and I do have faith in.....

One thing I have learned from scripture is that the real nuggets of the true gospel is hidden to those that will find it. We need to be able to rightly divide the word to figure out what is law(which we are free from) and what is truth ...only the holy Spirit can do that....that's why we have all the people that preach and teach and don't know the truth....they take everything as law and only salvation is grace.....That's a good one huh...See what seminary does for you..

 

[jessedance]

does anyone know of a verse or two that no translation gets right? I know one off hand 1 cor 14:12.

 

[Serapha]

Quite honestly, I see too many contradictions in the Scriptures as we know them, the more I study them and study church history.

At this point, I'm not sure what to believe, other than I still believe in God as my creator and that He does love me and care about me. Other than that, I just don't know.

Hi there!



That's interesting, because the more I study the Bible and historical documentation, the more I see the passages reconciled.




~serapha~

 

[Serapha]

does anyone know of a verse or two that no translation gets right? I know one off hand 1 cor 14:12.

KJV
Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.


NRSV
So with yourselves; since you are eager for spiritual gifts, strive to excel in them for building up the church.

CJB
Likewise with you: since you eagerly seek the things of the Spirit, seek especially what will help in edifying the congregation.

​

Lexicon / Concordance for 1Cr 14:12 ​

​

​

So, which word/thought is not translated correctly?​

~serapha~​

 

[audramray]

I use the NKJV because I feel it is the most accurate. Why? Because of them all, the Greek is translated correctly most of the time. There are, of course, some things translated wrongly. But that's where a concordance and lexicon come in handy.

How do you go about finding like minded believers? Talk to people. Research online.

 

[Angelajt]

Hi there!



That's interesting, because the more I study the Bible and historical documentation, the more I see the passages reconciled.




~serapha~

yes, me too. I think it's all got to do with the purpose of your heart and you faith. There are many things that I used to just gloss over because I did not understand and it made me uncomfortable. I am now totally comfortable with all aspects of scripture, even the ones that most people avoid.