What the heck is this?

Chris†opher Paul · Jul 17, 2002

The Casimir effect relies on an electromagnetic field, you should know that. So, you are relying on something that exists, to try and show that things can appear from something that doesn't exist.

2+2 never equals 5, and there is nothing wrong with pointing that out.

And I suggest that instead of declaring that I know nothing about the subject, you show that I know nothing about the subject.  It is slightly more convincing, don't you think?  Or maybe if you declare it enough, it will be true?

npetreley · Jul 17, 2002

Originally posted by s0uljah

And I suggest that instead of declaring that I know nothing about the subject, you show that I know nothing about the subject.  It is slightly more convincing, don't you think?  Or maybe if you declare it enough, it will be true?

ROFL! Get used to it. It's the last resort of evolutionists who have been backed into a corner.

In other words, it's something they say in almost every thread.

Here's an example:

Cross-breeding -> not necessarily a polyploid hybrid -> breeding again -> polyploid

So when I say cross-breeding produces polyploids, I'm an ignorant uneducated know-nothing creationist because I didn't specifically spell out every step. But when evolutionists say evolution occurs without even KNOWING the steps involved, they're educated scientists.

I can hardly stop laughing!

Morat · Jul 17, 2002

  Oh, naughty Souljah! The Casimir effect is a predicted result of quantum fluctuation (those pesky virtual particles). It was predicted many years before it could even be measured.

 Here, or Here:

The Casimir effect is a small attractive force which acts between two close parallel uncharged conducting plates. It is due to quantum vacuum fluctuations of the electromagnetic field.

The effect was predicted by the Dutch physicist Hendrick Casimir in 1948. According to the quantum theory, the vacuum contains virtual particles which are in a continuous state of fluctuation (see physics FAQ article on virtual particles). Casimir realised that between two plates, only those virtual photons whose wavelengths fit a whole number of times into the gap should be counted when calculating the vacuum energy. The energy density decreases as the plates are moved closer which implies there is a small force drawing them together.

To understand the Casimir Effect, one first has to understand something about a vacuum in space as it is viewed in quantum field theory. Far from being empty, modern physics assumes that a vacuum is full of fluctuating electromagnetic waves that can never be completely eliminated, like an ocean with waves that are always present and can never be stopped. These waves come in all possible wavelengths, and their presence implies that empty space contains a certain amount of energy--an energy that we can't tap, but that is always there.

  Having a hard time with that wave/particle duality?

 Or, more Simply

The Casimir effect is caused by the fact that space is filled with [dit 'vacuum fluctuations'" href="http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki/vacuum+fluctuations&action=edit">vacuum fluctuations]href="http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki/vacuum+fluctuations&action=edit">?, [dit 'virtual particle'" href="http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki/virtual+particle&action=edit">virtual particle]href="http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki/virtual+particle&action=edit">?-antiparticle pairs that continually form out of nothing and then vanish back into nothing an instant later. The gap between the two plates restricts the range of ttp://www.wikipedia.com/wiki/wavelength">wavelengths possible for these virtual particles, and so fewer of them are present within this space. This results in a lower energy density between the two plates than is present in open space; in essence, there is "less than nothing" between the two plates, creating negative energy and pressure, which pulls the plates together. The narrower the gap, the more restricted the wavelength of the virtual particles, the more negative the energy and pressure, and thus the stronger is the attractive force.

  Souljah, this shouldn't be difficult. You're arguing that modern physics is wrong, that a phenomenon well known for the past 5 to 10 decades doesn't exist, and your "proof" of this is misunderstood quotes from sources talking about this phenomenon and how it exists.

   Your only "rebuttal" is to ask me to show you where particles that cannot be directly observed where directly observed.

  Oh, just and case it went past you. "Between two uncharged plates".

 

unworthyone · Jul 17, 2002

Maybe an ethereal vacuum created the burial stones!!!

chickenman · Jul 17, 2002

the reason you're an idiot npeterly, is that you obviously thought it was possible to detect polyploidy in fossil remains - thats what I found amusing

unworthyone · Jul 17, 2002

Originally posted by chickenman
the reason you're an idiot npeterly, is that you obviously thought it was possible to detect polyploidy in fossil remains - thats what I found amusing

Hmmm...

How did they define polyploidy then?

seebs · Jul 17, 2002

Originally posted by unworthyone
Yes and there are 5000+ of these. I don't suppose the farmer made all these himself? Maybe its a mass conspiracy to rebuttal evolution!!

No one has seen the alleged source - and the one person who offered an identifiable source was the farmer, who said he made them himself.

The farmer's explanation is a plausible one, on its face - people do things like that. Other people are known to have copied the originals, and obviously, there's a great deal of money to be made providing stones like this.

If it were possible to go to the "original cave" and explore it, it might be informative... however, by now, it's become pretty clear that the guy running the tourist trap isn't having any of that.

Sauron · Jul 17, 2002

Originally posted by chickenman
the reason you're an idiot npeterly, is that you obviously thought it was possible to detect polyploidy in fossil remains - thats what I found amusing

Oh, come now.  There's more reasons than just polyploidic fossils for thinking that Nick is an idiot.....

Jerry Smith · Jul 17, 2002

I'm tempted to bump all of the old threads... the number "16" comes to mind...

Joe V. · Jul 17, 2002

Go, Jerry, Go!!!

- Joe

Chris†opher Paul · Jul 18, 2002

It is due to quantum vacuum fluctuations of the electromagnetic field.

Dude...they are taking an electromagnetic field for granted. This is in no way, "something coming from nothing". Observing phenomenon in this Universe says nothing about what occured before there was a universe. You are relying on the energy and matter in this Universe to observe virtual particles.

Again, show me a void where virtual particles appear. Of course, you can't, and its not a fair request. On the same note, it is not fair to say that something comes from nothing, because you can never observe nothing, to see something coming from it.

It is irrational to say that something comes from nothing.

Morat · Jul 18, 2002

  Well, that's the problem. You refuse to accept it, thus it's wrong. *shrug*. Hey, if you want to define yourself correct, be my guest.

   But until you can come up with an alternate solution to the Casimir effect (and I do expect you to show the math), I'm going to take your objection to virtual particle productions to be a faith-based one, and in no way based on physics or any other branch of science.

 

Chris†opher Paul · Jul 18, 2002

Morat-

You have faith as well. There, we are even, lol.

Morat · Jul 18, 2002

  Actually, I have a very successful prediction and a useful model.

Chris†opher Paul · Jul 18, 2002

For what you can observe in a lab, yes.

Morat · Jul 18, 2002

  In a lab? Try everywhere. Virtual particles are a direct outgrowth of Heisenburg uncertainity, a notion whose predictions and explanations crop up everywhere, from starlight to the speed of light to the behavior of your computer.

 

Chris†opher Paul · Jul 19, 2002

In a lab? Try everywhere. Virtual particles are a direct outgrowth of Heisenburg uncertainity, a notion whose predictions and explanations crop up everywhere, from starlight to the speed of light to the behavior of your computer.

Yes, and they borrow energy from "everywhere" to exist. My point exactly.

/takes cover

Morat · Jul 19, 2002

  Non sequtior.

 

SimpleChristian · Jul 19, 2002

Yea....that guy has got about as much credibility as an ex-sailor with know real scientific background expounding upon the orgins of man after watching a bunch of monkeys having sex on an island....

npetreley · Jul 19, 2002

Originally posted by SimpleChristian
Yea....that guy has got about as much credibility as an ex-sailor with know real scientific background expounding upon the orgins of man after watching a bunch of monkeys having sex on an island....

I assume the monkeys were taking a break from randomly typing the Encyclopedia Britannica.

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