What sinners 'deserve'.

[Lords Man]

The world, the course of which is “according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience” (Ephesians 2:2), evaluates everything from a carnal, rather than a Biblical, perspective. Thus, when it considers what is deserved in this life, it will always conclude that most people, allegedly being ‘good’ people, merit good things and that the bad things that happen to them are to be regarded as some sort of anomaly.

While this sort of thinking is quite in line with humanism, and quite appealing to and comforting of the flesh, it is unscriptural and deceptive. In the first place the Bible, the only completely reliable source for understanding humanity, as it speaks to men from God’s perspective, tells us that all people are conceived and born in the state of ‘original sin’ and corruption, which comes according to natural generation (Psalms 51:5). It tells us that all people go astray from the womb and that this is manifest in resorting to lies (Psalms 58:3). It tells us that all people are sinners and dead, or lifeless before and to God, by virtue of trespasses and sins (Romans 3:23; Ephesians 2:1). As a result, all people are alienated (cut off) from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart (Ephesians 4:18). There are none good, no not one; there are none that understand God, none that seek after the one true God (Romans 3:10-12).

The result is that all people, being God’s creatures, and accountable to God, merit something from God. And it is not anything good. The ‘wages’ of sin, what all people actually deserve from God, indeed all that they ‘deserve’, is not good but evil, not riches but poverty, not health but disease, not life but death (Romans 6:23). As rebels against God, by sinful nature, people are ‘haters’ of God and ‘enemies’ of the Most Holy (Romans 1:30; 8:7). They ‘deserve’ to suffer being deprived of everything good or beneficial, as these come from God, and they deserve such treatment every day of their miserable lives in this world. The fact that people do enjoy any good at all is due to the fact that God is gracious and merciful and kind, in His very person, and He is so even toward the evil and the unjust (Matthew 5:45).

When we see tragedy and catastrophe we should be empathetic. Yet we should always remember that such things are, probably, well deserved by those who are so afflicted. As long as people are under the wrong impression, regarding their true nature and condition and what they deserve from God, and in this life, they will never come to a sincere grief over their sin, an honest confession of their sin and, by God’s grace, to a genuine repentance and new life in Christ.

 

[WarriorAngel]

None are worthy.
We must be humbled and desiring of His Spirit to fill us with the graces and fruits.
God humbled Himself for us - we return the same. It is only then - can we obtain His gifts from the Spirit.
And those who humbly seek Him - in all His truths - will receive peace and hope.
For not all who say "Lord, Lord" will be saved.
We have hope in the death and resurrection.
Listen to Him in quiet contemplation. Know we are not worthy... however; we are wanted - not needed.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Yet we should always remember that such things are, probably, well deserved by those who are so afflicted.

Christ addressed that in the Gospels. His position seems quite different than yours here.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Lords Man]

Christ addressed that in the Gospels. His position seems quite different than yours here.

-CryptoLutheran

Well, quote your source and provide proof of your claim!!!

 

[concretecamper]

Sounds more like Allah than Christ

 

[ViaCrucis]

Well, quote your source and provide proof of your claim!!!

"As he walked along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, 'Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?' Jesus answered, 'Neither this man nor his parents sinned; he was born blind so that God’s works might be revealed in him. We must work the works of him who sent me while it is day; night is coming when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.'" - John 9:1-5

Suffering in this world is not an indicator of God's disapproval, or of divine retribution. Jesus makes this clear here where the man born blind is not blind because of his or his parents sins. Instead, here this man's blindness serves as a tool by which God's work in the world might be seen through Christ.

Sometimes bad things happen. Sometimes as consequences for poor choices, sometimes for no reason at all. But the work of God in Christ for the world is for the redemption and salvation of the world. That's the Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Remember the story of Job... it is Satan who seeks to destroy God's creation and God gives him certain latitudes in doing so. Why? partly, to test us and to draw us to Him. Trials and tribulations in our lives should not be viewed as God's displeasure of us but as a way that we may, like Job, bless and praise God in the trials and understand there is something for us to learn from them. God loves us... Satan hates us... all things done to us by Satan God can use for His glory if we will only trust Him and obey Him.

 

[Extraneous]

Godless men proper while spiritual men suffer. Some see suffering as a curse while others see it as a blessing.



Psalm 73New King James Version

73 Truly God is good to Israel,
To such as are pure in heart.
2 But as for me, my feet had almost stumbled;
My steps had nearly slipped.
3 For I was envious of the boastful,
When I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
4 For there are no pangs in their death,
But their strength is firm.

5 They are not in trouble as other men,
Nor are they plagued like other men.
6 Therefore pride serves as their necklace;
Violence covers them like a garment.
7 Their eyes bulge[a] with abundance;
They have more than heart could wish.
8 They scoff and speak wickedly concerning oppression;
They speak loftily.
9 They set their mouth against the heavens,
And their tongue walks through the earth.
10 Therefore his people return here,
And waters of a full cup are drained by them.
11 And they say, “How does God know?
And is there knowledge in the Most High?”

12 Behold, these are the ungodly,
Who are always at ease;
They increase in riches.
13 Surely I have cleansed my heart in vain,
And washed my hands in innocence.
14 For all day long I have been plagued,
And chastened every morning.
15 If I had said, “I will speak thus,”
Behold, I would have been untrue to the generation of Your children.

16 When I thought how to understand this,
It was too painful for me—
17 Until I went into the sanctuary of God;
Then I understood their end.
18 Surely You set them in slippery places;
You cast them down to destruction.
19 Oh, how they are brought to desolation, as in a moment!
They are utterly consumed with terrors.
20 As a dream when one awakes,
So, Lord, when You awake,
You shall despise their image.
21 Thus my heart was grieved,
And I was vexed in my mind.
22 I was so foolish and ignorant;
I was like a beast before You.

23 Nevertheless I am continually with You;
You hold me by my right hand.
24 You will guide me with Your counsel,
And afterward receive me to glory.
25 Whom have I in heaven but You?
And there is none upon earth that I desire besides You.
26 My flesh and my heart fail;
But God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever.

27 For indeed, those who are far from You shall perish;
You have destroyed all those who desert You for harlotry.
28 But it is good for me to draw near to God;
I have put my trust in the Lord GOD,
That I may declare all Your works.

 

[bling]

The world, the course of which is “according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience” (Ephesians 2:2), evaluates everything from a carnal, rather than a Biblical, perspective. Thus, when it considers what is deserved in this life, it will always conclude that most people, allegedly being ‘good’ people, merit good things and that the bad things that happen to them are to be regarded as some sort of anomaly.

While this sort of thinking is quite in line with humanism, and quite appealing to and comforting of the flesh, it is unscriptural and deceptive. In the first place the Bible, the only completely reliable source for understanding humanity, as it speaks to men from God’s perspective, tells us that all people are conceived and born in the state of ‘original sin’ and corruption, which comes according to natural generation (Psalms 51:5). It tells us that all people go astray from the womb and that this is manifest in resorting to lies (Psalms 58:3). It tells us that all people are sinners and dead, or lifeless before and to God, by virtue of trespasses and sins (Romans 3:23; Ephesians 2:1). As a result, all people are alienated (cut off) from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart (Ephesians 4:18). There are none good, no not one; there are none that understand God, none that seek after the one true God (Romans 3:10-12).

The result is that all people, being God’s creatures, and accountable to God, merit something from God. And it is not anything good. The ‘wages’ of sin, what all people actually deserve from God, indeed all that they ‘deserve’, is not good but evil, not riches but poverty, not health but disease, not life but death (Romans 6:23). As rebels against God, by sinful nature, people are ‘haters’ of God and ‘enemies’ of the Most Holy (Romans 1:30; 8:7). They ‘deserve’ to suffer being deprived of everything good or beneficial, as these come from God, and they deserve such treatment every day of their miserable lives in this world. The fact that people do enjoy any good at all is due to the fact that God is gracious and merciful and kind, in His very person, and He is so even toward the evil and the unjust (Matthew 5:45).

When we see tragedy and catastrophe we should be empathetic. Yet we should always remember that such things are, probably, well deserved by those who are so afflicted. As long as people are under the wrong impression, regarding their true nature and condition and what they deserve from God, and in this life, they will never come to a sincere grief over their sin, an honest confession of their sin and, by God’s grace, to a genuine repentance and new life in Christ.

What does a rebellious disobedient child "deserve" from the most wonderful Loving father?

You say: "Yet we should always remember that such things are, probably, well deserved by those who are so afflicted." Which should give you some personal comfort, but as ViaCrucis pointed out that is not the reason Christ gave for tragedies (ex. Man born blind).
Blaming others, including satan and/or Adam& Eve, for tragedies might sound good, but if you need someone to blame than blame me.
I personally need huge tragedies in order to respond with Love and grow spiritually.
I needed huge tragedies to see and experience true Godly type Love and grow to desire such love for myself.

 

[Lords Man]

What does a rebellious disobedient child "deserve" from the most wonderful Loving father?

You say: "Yet we should always remember that such things are, probably, well deserved by those who are so afflicted." Which should give you some personal comfort, but as ViaCrucis pointed out that is not the reason Christ gave for tragedies (ex. Man born blind).
Blaming others, including satan and/or Adam& Eve, for tragedies might sound good, but if you need someone to blame than blame me.
I personally need huge tragedies in order to respond with Love and grow spiritually.
I needed huge tragedies to see and experience true Godly type Love and grow to desire such love for myself.

Would be nice indeed if people could READ something using the mind rather than with a set of preconceived notions. All most people want to do is get their 2 cents worth of opinion out in the open whether it has anything to do with the topic or not.

 

[Lords Man]

Godless men proper while spiritual men suffer. Some see suffering as a curse while others see it as a blessing.



Psalm 73New King James Version

73 Truly God is good to Israel,
To such as are pure in heart.
2 But as for me, my feet had almost stumbled;
My steps had nearly slipped.
3 For I was envious of the boastful,
When I saw the prosperity of the wicked.
4 For there are no pangs in their death,
But their strength is firm.

5 They are not in trouble as other men,
Nor are they plagued like other men.
6 Therefore pride serves as their necklace;
Violence covers them like a garment.
7 Their eyes bulge[a] with abundance;
They have more than heart could wish.
8 They scoff and speak wickedly concerning oppression;
They speak loftily.
9 They set their mouth against the heavens,
And their tongue walks through the earth.
10 Therefore his people return here,
And waters of a full cup are drained by them.
11 And they say, “How does God know?
And is there knowledge in the Most High?”

12 Behold, these are the ungodly,
Who are always at ease;
They increase in riches.
13 Surely I have cleansed my heart in vain,
And washed my hands in innocence.
14 For all day long I have been plagued,
And chastened every morning.
15 If I had said, “I will speak thus,”
Behold, I would have been untrue to the generation of Your children.

16 When I thought how to understand this,
It was too painful for me—
17 Until I went into the sanctuary of God;
Then I understood their end.
18 Surely You set them in slippery places;
You cast them down to destruction.
19 Oh, how they are brought to desolation, as in a moment!
They are utterly consumed with terrors.
20 As a dream when one awakes,
So, Lord, when You awake,
You shall despise their image.
21 Thus my heart was grieved,
And I was vexed in my mind.
22 I was so foolish and ignorant;
I was like a beast before You.

23 Nevertheless I am continually with You;
You hold me by my right hand.
24 You will guide me with Your counsel,
And afterward receive me to glory.
25 Whom have I in heaven but You?
And there is none upon earth that I desire besides You.
26 My flesh and my heart fail;
But God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever.

27 For indeed, those who are far from You shall perish;
You have destroyed all those who desert You for harlotry.
28 But it is good for me to draw near to God;
I have put my trust in the Lord GOD,
That I may declare all Your works.

Would be nice indeed if people could READ something using the mind rather than with a set of preconceived notions. All most people want to do is get their 2 cents worth of opinion out in the open whether it has anything to do with the topic or not.

 

[Lords Man]

"As he walked along, he saw a man blind from birth. His disciples asked him, 'Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?' Jesus answered, 'Neither this man nor his parents sinned; he was born blind so that God’s works might be revealed in him. We must work the works of him who sent me while it is day; night is coming when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.'" - John 9:1-5

Suffering in this world is not an indicator of God's disapproval, or of divine retribution. Jesus makes this clear here where the man born blind is not blind because of his or his parents sins. Instead, here this man's blindness serves as a tool by which God's work in the world might be seen through Christ.

Sometimes bad things happen. Sometimes as consequences for poor choices, sometimes for no reason at all. But the work of God in Christ for the world is for the redemption and salvation of the world. That's the Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran

Would be nice indeed if people could READ something using the mind rather than with a set of preconceived notions. All most people want to do is get their 2 cents worth of opinion out in the open whether it has anything to do with the topic or not.

 

[Lords Man]

Sounds more like Allah than Christ

Would be nice indeed if people could READ something using the mind rather than with a set of preconceived notions. All most people want to do is get their 2 cents worth of opinion out in the open whether it has anything to do with the topic or not.

 

[Extraneous]

Would be nice indeed if people could READ something using the mind rather than with a set of preconceived notions. All most people want to do is get their 2 cents worth of opinion out in the open whether it has anything to do with the topic or not.

It took me two days to earn that, i'm sorry you didn't find it helpful.

 

[Lords Man]

Sounds more like Allah than Christ

Since your religious basis (Romans Catholic) is faulty your theological reasoning is also faulty.

 

[Lords Man]

It took me two days to earn that, i'm sorry you didn't find it helpful.

Please fill out the comment!!! What are you talking about?? These 140 character sound bites are useless in a real conversation.

 

[Extraneous]

Please fill out the comment!!! What are you talking about?? These 140 character sound bites are useless in a real conversation.

I was referring to the cost of food in the end times. To me its about enduring hardship, tribulation if you will. Adversity can be bread for the soul, in my opinion.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Would be nice indeed if people could READ something using the mind rather than with a set of preconceived notions. All most people want to do is get their 2 cents worth of opinion out in the open whether it has anything to do with the topic or not.

Instead of spamming every response with a copy and paste, it would be useful if you would engage in the responses being offered.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Lords Man]

I was referring to the cost of food in the end times. To me its about enduring hardship, tribulation if you will. Adversity can be bread for the soul, in my opinion.

Read the post please! What sinners deserve! What sinners deserve! Do you understand? Not what they get or what we think they deserve or what comes of it but What sinners deserve! It is purely theoretical, albeit scriptural.

 

[Lords Man]

Instead of spamming every response with a copy and paste, it would be useful if you would engage in the responses being offered.

-CryptoLutheran

It would be nice if people could read with their minds rather than their emotions.