What sends a person to Hell?

[TheScottsMen]

The question is simple: What sends a person to Hell today?

 

[TubaFour]

The question is simple: What sends a person to Hell today?

I'll bite!!

Same thing that sent them to hell at any other point in history past or future. Unbelief -- lack of faith/trust in Christ.

aL

 

[ddub85]

Hell is a choice. We must choose to go by refusing the way, the truth, and the life.

God Bless!

 

[billychum]

drinkin, cussin, stayin out all night chasin loose legged women.

Billy <><

 

[eph3Nine]

Well , it aint sin. The sin issue was dealt with ONCE and for all by the finished work of Christ on the Cross.

So...its UNBELIEF in the finished work of Christ. We need to know what OUR good news IS for today. And its NOT repent and be baptized.

 

[TubaFour]

Well , it aint sin. The sin issue was dealt with ONCE and for all by the finished work of Christ on the Cross.

So...its UNBELIEF in the finished work of Christ. We need to know what OUR good news IS for today. And its NOT repent and be baptized.

Isn't unbelief a sin?

aL

 

[twoedge]

Isn't unbelief a sin?

aL

Eph 9............( I'm on her ignore list, apparently ) said in a previous post

' ALL sin was paid for on calvary. SIN is not the decisive factor in whether or not a person going to heaven. BELIEF is.

Jesus said, "the Worlds sin is UNBELIEF"...He has already paid for the sins that separated them from a HOLY God. God ISNT mad at anyone any more...thats the GOOD NEWS. '

I replied.....

So you say;
a) Sin will not land anyone in hell
b) Unbelief will ( being the ' decisive factor ' )
c) Unbelief is sin. ( ' the world's sin is unbelief ' )

Her view seems inconsistant, no?

2e

 

[TubaFour]

Her view seems inconsistant, no?

2e

It certainly is!!

aL

 

[UncleRicky]

Well , it aint sin. The sin issue was dealt with ONCE and for all by the finished work of Christ on the Cross.

So...its UNBELIEF in the finished work of Christ. We need to know what OUR good news IS for today. And its NOT repent and be baptized.

Greetings Eph3Nine,

As far as I can see, Christ shed his blood for many.. not for all. Whosoever will may come, but not all come.

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

The once for all thing was to put an end to the sacrificial system.

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Blessings to you,
Rick

http://unclerickysperigrinations.blogspot.com/

 

[eph3Nine]

Greetings Eph3Nine,

As far as I can see, Christ shed his blood for many.. not for all. Whosoever will may come, but not all come.

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Im so glad you brought up these verses. It shows so clearly the difference between ISRAELS program and the one we are currently IN today.

Lets look at Matt 26:28...this is still the KINGDOM GOSPEL which was to the Jew alone. Thats why it says "the blood which is shed for MANY"...the same goes for Hebrews, which is addressed to , GUESS WHO?, the passage tells you who...the HEBREWS...Jews again.

This is still prophetic and dealing with ISRAEL.

Here is where we find OUR gospel and the obvious CHANGE that has occurred due to the "preaching of Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO THE MYSTERY..."

1 Timothy 2:6 "Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." The due time testifier was PAUL with the MYSTERY truths.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

2 Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

NOW, this is the message given in Pauls epistles. Look at 2 Cor 5:15 closely. Theres the gospel in a nutshell...his death, burial and resurrection. Paul is the only one that preached the Cross as the means by which we are saved in this present dispensation. Peter preached REPENT (from the UNBELIEF in their promised MESSIAH) and be water baptized (a REQUIREMENT for the NATION Of Priests which Israel WAS)

So, as you see, under the KINGDOM Program for Israel it was the sins of MANY...under the MYSTERY program that we are currently in today, its is the sins of ALL.

By the way, many who dont understand or acknowledge these "THINGS THAT DIFFER" , mistakenly place themselves in the CALVINIST CAMP.

Trust what the Bible tells us in OUR information. He died for the sins of the whole world, past , present and future. If He had NOT done this, He would not have been able to rise from the dead.

 

[eph3Nine]

Isn't unbelief a sin?

aL

Unbelief is the criteria GOD SET UP...NOT me! Unbelief isnt a WORK. ITS the only thing left for we proud human beings to exercise when God has proven that He has DONE IT ALL FOR US!

We will be judged by what we BELIEVE. Do a word search and tell me it isnt so....LOL

The death, burial, and resurrection of Christ is what we are told to place our full belief and trust IN, as SUFFICIENT to reconcile us to God. Believe it, you are saved, dont believe it, you are NOT saved.

Thems the facts.

Dont be dancin around all cute like with something this critical....either represent God accurately or sit down and be quiet. Its SERIOUS.

If you think that anyones SINS send them to hell...then what was all the hoopla at the Cross all about?

Sins (PLURAL)were PAID for, individual sins committed by individual people.

Jesus said that the worlds SIN (singular) is UNBELIEF. That is what He will be judging us ALL on, what did we BELIEVE.

Do some studying...its quite edifying and will clear some things up for you that you really should KNOW before misrepresenting Gods plan and purpose in public.

 

[TubaFour]

Eph,

You can't help it, can you. You gotta take a dig no matter what... Sheesh!! That's OK. I forgive you!!

Now, if unbelief is a sin (a question you don't answer) then why isn't that sin "covered" by Christ's blood shed on the cross? If unbelief is not a sin, then why are people sent to hell for it?

Also, whose sins did Christ die for? Those in the dispensation of grace only or other men in other dispensations?

aL

 

[TheScottsMen]

Eph,

You can't help it, can you. You gotta take a dig no matter what... Sheesh!! That's OK. I forgive you!!

Now, if unbelief is a sin (a question you don't answer) then why isn't that sin "covered" by Christ's blood shed on the cross? If unbelief is not a sin, then why are people sent to hell for it?

Also, whose sins did Christ die for? Those in the dispensation of grace only or other men in other dispensations?

aL

Great questions

 

[eph3Nine]

Eph,

You can't help it, can you. You gotta take a dig no matter what... Sheesh!! That's OK. I forgive you!!

No DIG was intended. God tells us ALL to study to show ourselves approved unto Him, doesnt HE? If we dont follow His directions then we become enmeshed in "foolish questions" with NO Intention of seeing answers. I believe we are warned about entering into that kind of debate as well.

I DID answer your question (but you seem impervious to relevant scripture) and IM NOT going to do your homework FOR YOU. The sins of the World , acts that stem from being a SINNER, were taken AWAY at the Cross. Sins are no longer the issue, and no longer the basis by which God is dealing with mankind. Sin separates us from God and the wages of sin is DEATH. Christ paid that penalty for ALL. God is reconciled to us, but WE are exhorted to plead with others for THEM to be reconciled to God. How does this transaction take place? The way God has ALWAYS dealt with mankind. Do you believe God, or NOT? That has been Gods criteria ALL along. BELIEVING What God told whoever was His audience.

Jesus Himself said that the worlds SIN (singular) is UNBELIEF. If you want to argue semantics with the LORD, be my guest, but trusting God has always been based on taking Him at His Word. That is the criteria by which all of mankind will be judged...NOT on their DEEDS as sinful, but on what they BELIEVED.

If unbelief is a sin (a question you don't answer) then why isn't that sin "covered" by Christ's blood shed on the cross? If unbelief is not a sin, then why are people sent to hell for it?

The fact that you even have to ask this question tells me you dont understand what the Cross was all about, but then again, Im not going to do your homework for you.

NO ONE will be sent to hell for their sins! GASP. The sin issue has been dealt with ONCE and for ALL, never to be brought up again. People will drop into hell for NOT TAKING GOD at His Word as to HOW he makes a man righteous today.2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Whose sins did Christ die for? Those in the dispensation of grace only or other men in other dispensations?

Scripture tells us that Christ died for the sins of the World, for all times and dispensations. Thats why the MYSTERY truths given to Paul are so critical. They were KEPT SECRET and HID IN GOD, and the PURPOSE of the Cross was not preached nor was it understood UNTIL it was revealed to Paul for all.

 

[TubaFour]

Eph,

Trust me when I tell you I've studied the scriptures. I do not know everything nor do I know enough. But I know what is biblical and unbiblical. I can tell you that my studies have given me a totally different picture than the one you have on just about every important issue. Obviously one of us is wrong. I believe with my whole being it's YOU!! But, that doesn't make me patronize you with slogans about studying and rightly dividing....

<sigh>

If Christ paid for the sins of all mankind and unbelief is a sin, then Christ paid for men's unbelief too. There's nothing left to condemn them for.

And, if sin is not an issue anymore, then why is Paul concerned about sin? Why does he say:

Romans 7:14
We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.

Romans 14:23
But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

1 Corinthians 8:12
When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ.


2 Co 12:
21I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.

2 Co 13:

1This will be my third visit to you. "Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses."[a] 2I already gave you a warning when I was with you the second time. I now repeat it while absent: On my return I will not spare those who sinned earlier or any of the others, 3since you are demanding proof that Christ is speaking through me. He is not weak in dealing with you, but is powerful among you.


Or why does James exhort us to confess our sins?

James 5:16
Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

Oh, I know what you'll say, "because James is preaching a different gospel"!!

Eph3nine, I think you're the one who's preaching a different gospel than Paul's, James' or Peter's. And that's the truth!!!

aL

 

[UncleRicky]

[/color]

Im so glad you brought up these verses. It shows so clearly the difference between ISRAELS program and the one we are currently IN today.

Lets look at Matt 26:28...this is still the KINGDOM GOSPEL which was to the Jew alone. Thats why it says "the blood which is shed for MANY"...the same goes for Hebrews, which is addressed to , GUESS WHO?, the passage tells you who...the HEBREWS...Jews again.

This is still prophetic and dealing with ISRAEL.

Here is where we find OUR gospel and the obvious CHANGE that has occurred due to the "preaching of Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO THE MYSTERY..."

1 Timothy 2:6 "Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." The due time testifier was PAUL with the MYSTERY truths.

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

2 Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.

NOW, this is the message given in Pauls epistles. Look at 2 Cor 5:15 closely. Theres the gospel in a nutshell...his death, burial and resurrection. Paul is the only one that preached the Cross as the means by which we are saved in this present dispensation. Peter preached REPENT (from the UNBELIEF in their promised MESSIAH) and be water baptized (a REQUIREMENT for the NATION Of Priests which Israel WAS)

So, as you see, under the KINGDOM Program for Israel it was the sins of MANY...under the MYSTERY program that we are currently in today, its is the sins of ALL.

By the way, many who dont understand or acknowledge these "THINGS THAT DIFFER" , mistakenly place themselves in the CALVINIST CAMP.

Trust what the Bible tells us in OUR information. He died for the sins of the whole world, past , present and future. If He had NOT done this, He would not have been able to rise from the dead.

Greetings again Eph3Nine

Please excuse me if I seem a little thick. Sometimes I don't fully comprehend what folks are trying to impart. Just to clarify... Are you saying that because "Christ died for all", that all are saved?

My understanding is that although He died for all, (Whosoever will) not all are saved - Hence "His blood shed for many".
Also... Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

What you seem to be saying is quite different than what I have understood up to this point in time.

Cheers Eph3Nine

Rick

 

[eph3Nine]

Greetings again Eph3Nine

Please excuse me if I seem a little thick. Sometimes I don't fully comprehend what folks are trying to impart. Just to clarify... Are you saying that because "Christ died for all", that all are saved?

My understanding is that although He died for all, (Whosoever will) not all are saved - Hence "His blood shed for many".
Also... Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

What you seem to be saying is quite different than what I have understood up to this point in time.

Cheers Eph3Nine

Rick

Nope...I didnt say that all are saved. Those who BELIEVE in the death, burial and resurrection as sufficient to reconcile them to God are saved. NOT everyone will believe, will they? NOPE. But the sins are paid for nonetheless.

To believe that all are automatically saved is called UNIVERSALISM, and the Bible doesnt teach that. Neither do I.

I have a book entitled "God Had a SECRET" and it explains what we mid acts dispensationalists believe from scripture. I would love to send you a copy FREE,and then you can come in with any questions you might have. If you want it, please PM me with your mailing address and I will be happy to mail it to you.

You might want to read some of the other threads in here as Im sure there is more that you have not considered before. Right division is a real eye opener and after 25 years of being a Southern Baptist , I was astounded when I began actually LOOKING at what the scriptures DO say.

Nice to meetcha , Rick.

 

[eph3Nine]

Eph,

Trust me when I tell you I've studied the scriptures. I do not know everything nor do I know enough. But I know what is biblical and unbiblical. I can tell you that my studies have given me a totally different picture than the one you have on just about every important issue. Obviously one of us is wrong. I believe with my whole being it's YOU!! But, that doesn't make me patronize you with slogans about studying and rightly dividing....

<sigh>

I dont mean to be patronizing at ALL. I am challenging you to take ANOTHER look at the scriptures WITHOUT the glasses of your denominational party line or the "commonly accepted" traditions of men. The LATEST revelation to mankind with regard to what God is doing today was to PAUL...not Peter.

If Christ paid for the sins of all mankind and unbelief is a sin, then Christ paid for men's unbelief too. There's nothing left to condemn them for.

Had you REALLY studied the bible you would KNOW that it is in BELIEVING God that man shows His trust. That has NEVER changed...ONLY the information being dispensed is different, but the IDEA of taking God at His word is all thru the scriptures.

SINS , PLURAL , are what Jesus died for. The enmity is now out of the way. The wages of sin is death..its been PAID IN FULL. Now God tells us that the criteria for entrance into His heaven is to believe that the death, burial and resurrection of Christ is SUFFICIENT to reconcile us to God, and that IN believing, we are GIVEN THE RIGHTEOUSNESS of CHRIST in exchange for our OWN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS.

NO One will enter heaven WITHOUT the righteousness of CHRIST....the sin issue isnt even an issue any longer. God has offered to GIVE YOU HIS righteousness by your trusting that Jesus did it ALL to secure it FOR you on the Cross. UNLESS you believe this, you will not be given any righteousness and you wont enter heaven: NOT because of your sin, but because you refused the PROVISION given by God for entrance in the first place.

Im surprised you dont KNOW this, but many who profess to be believers arent believing what God told them to believe.

And, if sin is not an issue anymore, then why is Paul concerned about sin?

Sin is not an issue in that we will NOT be judged for it. Of course we should avoid sinful behavior...its just plan stupid when we are NEW CREATIONS and arent under its power. However we ARE in these sinful bodies, are we not? We are to bring these bodies into subjection, and we dont always get it right...but as we walk in the Spirit, in dependence on who we know we are IN HIM, we dont become "sinless", but we sure do "SIN LESS". Thats how it works. Paul is concerned about us working IN the sound doctrine given to him for us by God. THAT is what will establish us and cause us to live godly lives. GRACE is what motivates us, not FEAR. WE ARE forgiven...past tense....we arent looking to BE forgiven each time we mess up....its all been provided UP FRONT.

Or why does James exhort us to confess our sins?

James is a minister unto whom? Scripture TELLS us who. He is a minister to the "circumcision"...thats NOT US. WE are the UNcircumcision. Israel was told to confess her sins over and over. WE are told to believe that our sins have been forgiven...PAST TENSE.

Confessing ones sins is always a good thing...it simply means to agree with God when you realize you have done something altogether uncharacteristic of who you are IN HIM....however, we DONT confess "IN ORDER TO GET OUR SINS FORGIVEN"....NO NO NO...those sins were forgiven 2000 years ago by what HE DID< not by our confessing. NO ONE was confessing when He died for the sins of the World 2000 years ago. That is the error I am trying to correct.

Pauls gospel, the preaching of Jesus Christ according to the MYSTERY , IS the only gospel that saves today. Peters gospel is no longer on the table, neither is the teaching of Christ while He was on the earth. That was to the Nation Israel and for a different economy.

The OTHER gospel we are warned against preaching is PETERS gospel of the KINGDOM. Its not a WRONG gospel , or a false gospel...its just not the good news God gives to YOU, the Body of Christ.

 

[TubaFour]

Eph,

Unfortunately, the answer to the questions I posed is still not forthcoming. I'll say it again:

If Christ paid for the sins of all mankind and unbelief is a sin, then Christ paid for men's unbelief too. There's nothing left to condemn them for.

You say that we are the Uncircumcision? Don't think so. At least not according to Paul: We ARE the (true) circumcision:

Phil 3:
3For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh— 4though I myself have reasons for such confidence.

Eph, you know nothing about my denominationalism or the traditions of men. I've spent the first 15 years of my christian life in very strong dispensational (Acts 2) churches. I counted among my teachers, David Hocking, Chuck Smith, Chuck Swindoll, Hayford, and many others.

What you constantly harp on about studying the scriptures is exactly what I did. I found dispensationalism in its milder form sorely wanting (to be kind). I think it's unbiblical. The more virulent kind of dispensationalism that you adhere to is completely unbiblical. Mind you we agree on some of the "slogan", etc. But, scratch the surface and we're very far apart.

aL

 

[eph3Nine]

Eph,

Unfortunately, the answer to the questions I posed is still not forthcoming. I'll say it again:

If Christ paid for the sins of all mankind and unbelief is a sin, then Christ paid for men's unbelief too. There's nothing left to condemn them for.

You say that we are the Uncircumcision? Don't think so. At least not according to Paul: We ARE the (true) circumcision:

Phil 3:
3For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh— 4though I myself have reasons for such confidence.

The circumcision being spoken of here is the spiritual circumcision...not made with hands...where our body of sins is cut AWAY. It has nothing to do with Israels program or us being the circumcision of Israel. This issue is the SPIRIT and putting no confidence in the flesh here, NOT us taking Israels place as the "circumcision" at all.

Eph, you know nothing about my denominationalism or the traditions of men. I've spent the first 15 years of my christian life in very strong dispensational (Acts 2) churches. I counted among my teachers, David Hocking, Chuck Smith, Chuck Swindoll, Hayford, and many others.

I DO know about denominationalism and the traditions of men. I spent the first 25 years of my life in the same kinds of churches and under the same teachers as YOU did. Have attended ALL of the churches you mentioned and sat under all those mens teachings.

ACTS 2 may be dispensational, but it stops a program TOO SHORT. It is based the MISTAKEN concept that the church which is His body began at Pentecost, and it DIDNT.

Mind you we agree on some of the "slogan", etc. But, scratch the surface and we're very far apart.

Yes, agreed. We are far apart because you fail to acknowledge that your apostle is NOT peter, but Paul, and that the Body of Christ didnt begin at Pentecost but with the saving of Paul and the revelation of the MYSTERY!

If you are no longer Acts 2, then what ARE you? Covenant theology answers all the questions for ya, does it?

I think NOT. WE are not Gods covenant people. ISRAEL is. WE are the body of Christ, the NEW CREATION.



aL
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