What of Lutherans?

JoyforJESUS · Dec 30, 2006

5SolasinKY,

I agree with self banning from communion in the RC church, and some others as well. That was when I was younger, not today. With that in mind, I also go back to the FACT that I know, that Jesus himself instituted the Lords Supper.

My point was that the LCMS church has been the Only church I have ever been refused communion.

Cajun Huguenot · Dec 30, 2006

5SolasinKY said:
It doesn't surprise me. However, is it understood the place the Eucharist holds in the gospel that Roman Catholicism teaches? Their gospel is sacerdotal.

I personally would not participate in something that at the root flies in the face of the gospel. They would not have to bar me because I am self-barred. I am not insulted if churches who teach another gospel bar me (and I am baffled that they would be insulted when my church bars them). It does give me some concerns when a church that preaches the gospel of Christ bars a Christian (by their own definition). However, even that 'concern' is not enough for me to hold ill will, because they may be doing so in jealousy of the purity of the practice and in loyalty to Christ, which is an admirable thing.

The unity the Bible teaches is only in Christ. Syncretism is an unholy unity for which God makes no concession as we can see throughout both the Old and New Testaments. It is the great sin the Israelites commit over and over again, which ultimately cost them their kingdom forever. (The Israel of today is not a theocracy). It is the warning countless times in the New Testament. Acceptance of any other gospel while claiming to hold to the gospel of Christ is syncretism.

The unity we must have, by command of God, is the unity which is in those who commonly are looking to Christ, His perfect life, His sacrifice and resurrection, and Him alone for salvation. Any other unity pollutes the testimony of true Christianity.

I agree with you on a number of points and disagree on others. I do on occassion attend Mass but I do not, would not partake of the Eucharist in the RCC.

I strongly disagree with their doctrine of the Eucharist so that prevents me from taking part in it, also they fence the table narrowly and according to their own teachings no non-Roman Catholics are supposed to take part in the Supper.

I too attended a LCMS worship for a time (about 6 months) and was never allowed to the table there because my views were closer to Calvin's than they are to Luther's. However, I did speak with another LCMS pastor who did say that I should be allowed to take part in the Supper at LCMS churches.

I have high regard for the LCMS. They are a solid denomination. On the other hand the ELCA church is closer to the PCUSA and the ECUSA. They are compromised and have (mostly) traded the Gospel of Jesus Christ for a social gospel.

Coram Deo,
Kenith

cubanito · Dec 31, 2006

Paleoconservatarian said:
Concerning law/gospel, there may be more common ground than many Lutherans and Reformed are willing to admit. Perhaps this isn't the majority, but I have certainly heard and read Lutherans who teach the importance of the third use of the law. And also, there are Reformed folks who believe there should be a stronger emphasis on law/gospel. .

Third use of the Law? I do not understand this. What is the difference between Presbys and Lutherans on this?

JR

JoyforJESUS · Dec 31, 2006

Let us all this New Year stop this madness and get to the Work that Jesus would have us do. The Gospel! Spread it! Give Satan no quarter, do not argue among ourselves.

Happy New Year. jfj

mooduck1 · Dec 31, 2006

cubanito said:
I am a PCA member, a fundamentalist. I have no interest in learning or discussing what theological liberals of any denomination have to say on this thread. Yhis is not a put down, just that in this matter I am only interested in the opinion of those that believe the Bible to be truly the inerrant Word of God.

I kinda understand the difference re the Eucharist, but what else separates fundy-like presbys and fundy-like Lutherans? Luther was no Arminian (even though I understand after him it drifted in that direction.

I just don;'t see what keeps us apart, where the PC-USA and some Lutherans could hammer out some commonality.

So basically, you only want to here opinnions expressed that agree withg your own....I have to ask, why discuss what you already believe? What's the point of that?

As to the differences between Calvanists and Lutherans, well, honestly, mostly the differences are more political than real. Do Calvanists have sacriments? if not, that may be a slight issue. As far as the Eurcharist goes, Lutherans believe that Jesus was telling the truth when he said 'this is my body..this is my blood..' We may have different ways of explaining that but there it is, Jesus said it, so we believe it!

It's best to ignore the outside political structures and focus on Christ. I think when we do that the lines between your Church and mine will fade out of focus. Lose those lines and you realise We are all one, even if we do sometimes read our Bibles differently, or have slightly different systems of Church goverment or order of service.

rmwilliamsll · Dec 31, 2006

Third use of the Law? I do not understand this. What is the difference between Presbys and Lutherans on this?

the wiki is a good start
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_and_Gospel#Reformed_view

the issue revolves around if God is pleased when we obey the Law as a response to salvation and a way to organize our societies. Is the Law a useful tool for guidance towards holiness?

But I have been turned away at LCMS churches. It is the Only demonination I have ever been refused the Lords Supper.

do you deny their right to fence the table? i waitied over a year to join the church and had to pass communion in the mean time. i understand the pain but pain is not evil only a warning sign. They are right to fence the table. only Lutherans ought to partake in a Lutheran church. i grew up in a Lutheran church and still have very Lutheran emotional matrix but i would not take communion there, i am reformed in my theology and don't belong at their table.

rmwilliamsll · Dec 31, 2006

Let us all this New Year stop this madness and get to the Work that Jesus would have us do. The Gospel! Spread it! Give Satan no quarter, do not argue among ourselves.

which Gospel?
or which of the various gospels that claim to be true is actually the Gospel?
or is there a single Gospel in possession of a particular denomination, to the exclusion of others who are just as correct?
the only way to answer these questions is to do theology and study the issues. otherwise how do you know what you are preaching is the Gospel?

JoyforJESUS · Dec 31, 2006

rmwilliamsll said:
which Gospel?
or which of the various gospels that claim to be true is actually the Gospel?
or is there a single Gospel in possession of a particular denomination, to the exclusion of others who are just as correct?
the only way to answer these questions is to do theology and study the issues. otherwise how do you know what you are preaching is the Gospel?

The Gospel of Jesus Christ. That Jesus, is Our Lord and Savior. That No man comes to the Father but by Jesus Christ.

JoyforJESUS · Dec 31, 2006

Lately, it seems that we are attacking people and religions, which is what satan wants, not what Jesus wants!

rmwilliamsll · Dec 31, 2006

joyforjesus said:
The Gospel of Jesus Christ. That Jesus, is Our Lord and Savior. That No man comes to the Father but by Jesus Christ.

that is nice, but what is the content of this Gospel?
what you wrote can be written by a Mormon or a JW or a Christian Scientists. what makes it different between you and them? theology, the content of the Gospel, what exactly is being "exclaimed".

JoyforJESUS · Dec 31, 2006

rmwilliamsll said:
that is nice, but what is the content of this Gospel?
what you wrote can be written by a Mormon or a JW or a Christian Scientists. what makes it different between you and them? theology, the content of the Gospel, what exactly is being "exclaimed".

You are missing my point. That when we argue over whose "religion" is right, then Satan is winning that Battle. We need to come together, and Serve God.
God will judge us by his standards. I will not "convert" to another religion, when I know that It is Jesus that is my Savior, and that God is My Father, and that the Holy Spirit comes from the Father. So to what end is this attack on religions? A way for Satan to divide us and keep us away from Jesus Christ.

JoyforJESUS · Dec 31, 2006

And I say to thee. thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (Matthew 16:18)

Jesus established the Chruch,

humans established demonations... who shall you choose?

Jesus or humans?

JoyforJESUS · Dec 31, 2006

1 Corninthians 1:2 Unto the church of God wich is at Corinth,....
1 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul and Silvanus and Timotheus unto the church of Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ
Phillippians 1:1 Paul and Timotheus , the servants of jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Phillippi with the bishops and deacons...

So which is the "right" church or are they actually one church established by Jesus, and located in seperate areas?

rmwilliamsll · Dec 31, 2006

You are missing my point. That when we argue over whose "religion" is right, then Satan is winning that Battle. We need to come together, and Serve God.

i'm not missing the point, i think you are wrong. There is no such thing as "the Gospel" without theological analysis and statements about what it means. The idea that all we have to do is come together and preach the Gospel is not just naive but dangerous. Content, content, content.

humans established demonation
spelling error or freudian slip or sophisticated argument via misspelling? i don't know which.

JoyforJESUS · Jan 1, 2007

rmwilliamsll said:
You are missing my point. That when we argue over whose "religion" is right, then Satan is winning that Battle. We need to come together, and Serve God.

i'm not missing the point, i think you are wrong. There is no such thing as "the Gospel" without theological analysis and statements about what it means. The idea that all we have to do is come together and preach the Gospel is not just naive but dangerous. Content, content, content.

humans established demonation
spelling error or freudian slip or sophisticated argument via misspelling? i don't know which.

how about typographical error?

JoyforJESUS · Jan 1, 2007

joyforjesus said:
1 Corninthians 1:2 Unto the church of God wich is at Corinth,....
1 Thessalonians 1:1 Paul and Silvanus and Timotheus unto the church of Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ
Phillippians 1:1 Paul and Timotheus , the servants of jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Phillippi with the bishops and deacons...

So which is the "right" church or are they actually one church established by Jesus, and located in seperate areas?

which is the "Right" church? or cant you answer.

I would say , the reformation, was to reform (correct un=biblical teachings of the catholic chruch)

JoyforJESUS · Jan 1, 2007

I posted this on another thread... I wanted to share it here.

In my town, where I worship, every Lent my congregation (Lutheran) and another congregation (RCatholic) have a joint study, so that we better understand each others congregations and "religions" We always focus on the positives of both churches, not on our differences, but our sameness! This is a positive in our community. Father Tom has offered the homily at my church, Pastor Chuck has offered the homily at Father Tom's parish! It is a wonderful thing.

JimfromOhio · Jan 1, 2007

I found this link interesting from another thread:
Lutheranism Between Calvinism and Arminianism

JimfromOhio · Jan 1, 2007

I love Martin Luther's writings and thought about joining a Lutheran church. However, there were several factors that I decided not to. Nothing has to do with Luther's doctrine but more about Lutheran handling church government and many are not really following Luther's teachings.

JoyforJESUS · Jan 1, 2007

JimfromOhio said:
I love Martin Luther's writings and thought about joining a Lutheran church. However, there were several factors that I decided not to. Nothing has to do with Luther's doctrine but more about Lutheran handling church government and many are not really following Luther's teachings.

Because each Lutheran Chruch is a self governing body, there are some that do not follow the docternal issues that are implemented in the larger body of the Lutheran Churches.

I hope you will not hold that against the rest of us.

What of Lutherans?

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