What? No Josephology?!?!?

LivingWordUnity · Jun 26, 2007

Joseph the carpenter was secretly a King in the line of King David. This is something that most people don't realize about Joseph.

The whole purpose for the genealogy at the beginning of Matthew was to show that Joseph was the rightful King of Judah, and this meant that Jesus was also heir to that throne.

There are plenty of devotions to Saint Joseph, and he is very important as the patron Saint of any man who is the father of a family.

I just recently got a little book with a novena prayer devotion to Saint Joseph.

prodromos · Jun 27, 2007

LivingWordUnity said:
Joseph the carpenter was secretly a King in the line of King David. This is something that most people don't realize about Joseph.

The whole purpose for the genealogy at the beginning of Matthew was to show that Joseph was the rightful King of Judah, and this meant that Jesus was also heir to that throne.

I think you are going into uncharted territory here. The genealogy was to show that Jesus was of the line of David, since the Messiah was prophesied to be of David's line.

Rick Otto · Jun 27, 2007

It did sound a little overstated, & I "profile" Catholics for that ( I confess ), but I think Livin' points out a significant fact, even if you put it in better perspective.
I'd heard that before in defense of our faith, but hadn't revisited it in awhile. I think it testifies of God's attendance to important details, amen y'all?

Rick Otto · Jun 27, 2007

Amylisa said:
Rick Otto said:

Its a good hurt.
Consider it a spanking.
I am given no consideration for MY hurt feelings over this,
I suffer crude generalizations plenty.
Want mercy? Show some.
But don't expect any respect for intellectual dishonesty.

Mary devotion is big business, St. Joe is small change.
You need a good hurting pinch to wake you up, if you imagine any different.

quote]

Well actually...
the only other thing I've ever said to you here at CF is to thank you for the link you put up on your thread about "Stop saying you don't worship Mary." It was a good link!
So....I don't think I wasn't 'merciful' to you.

Click to expand...

I had a bad day. Sorry I took it out on you. You are sweet.

Rick Otto · Jun 27, 2007

jckstraw72 said:
well Rick, the title of this thread says there is NO "Josephology" and you've been proven wrong. so then you change your tactic to comparing how much veneration of Joseph to that of Mary.

I stand corrected.
There IS a Josephology.

But c'mon, Jack. Keep it real.
She has her own prayer on the rosary! We are talking about a difference in general attention that is practicaly incomparable. It isn't exactly beside the point, simply because your bustin' my door down on a technicality.
Should I start a new string?

LivingWordUnity · Jun 27, 2007

prodromos said:
I think you are going into uncharted territory here. The genealogy was to show that Jesus was of the line of David, since the Messiah was prophesied to be of David's line.

If Jesus was in line with the throne, why wouldn't Joseph be in line with it?

If you look at the genealogy it goes through Joseph to Jesus.

Before Joseph died, he was the rightful king of Judah. But it was kept a secret. After he died, Jesus inherited the throne (although still in secret at the time). When the ones who crucified Jesus made the sign calling Jesus "King of the Jews", it was correct.

Joseph and Jesus were both in line for the throne of King David.

So both Joseph and Jesus were kings. But the reign of Jesus on that throne is the one that lasts forever.

I think that my other post could have been worded a little better to be less ambiguous.

prodromos · Jun 27, 2007

LivingWordUnity said:
If Jesus was in line with the throne, why wouldn't Joseph be in line with it?

If you look at the genealogy it goes through Joseph to Jesus.

Before Joseph died, he was the rightful king of Judah. But it was kept a secret. After he died, Jesus inherited the throne (although still in secret at the time). When the ones who crucified Jesus made the sign calling Jesus "King of the Jews", it was correct.

Joseph and Jesus were both in line for the throne of King David.

So both Joseph and Jesus were kings. But the reign of Jesus on that throne is the one that lasts forever.

I think that my other post could have been worded a little better to be less ambiguous.

Do you have any Church Fathers backing you up or is this something you have come up with yourself?

You do realise that there were many, many men who had genealogies going back to David.

PassthePeace1 · Jun 27, 2007

Rick Otto said:
I stand corrected.
There IS a Josephology.

But c'mon, Jack. Keep it real.
She has her own prayer on the rosary! We are talking about a difference in general attention that is practicaly incomparable. It isn't exactly beside the point, simply because your bustin' my door down on a technicality.
Should I start a new string?

There is a rosary to St. Joseph also...said on the same beads as the Marian Rosary.

The mysteries for the St. Joseph Rosary are:

1. Bethrothal to Mary (Mt 1:18)
2. Annunciation to Joseph(Mt. 1:19-21)
3. Birth and naming of Jesus (Mt 1:22-25)
4. Flight into Egypt (Mt. 2:13-15)
5. Hidden Life at Nazareth (Mt. 2:23; Lk 2:51-52)

The rest is the same as the Marian Rosary, with the exception that instead of praying the Hail Mary on the Hail Mary beads...this prayer is said instead

Joseph, son of David, and husband of Mary; we honor you, guardian of the Redeemer, and we adore the child you named Jesus. Saint Joseph, patron of the universal church, pray for us, that like you we may live totally dedicated to the interests of the Savior. Amen.

Or what is probably more of a common practice is to say a prayer to St. Joseph as a closing prayer to a Marian Rosary....

Prayer to St. Joseph

O, St. Joseph, whose protection is so great, so strong, so prompt before the throne of God, I place in you all my interests and desires. O, St. Joseph, do assist me by your powerful intercession, and obtain for me from your divine Son all spiritual blessings, through Jesus Christ, our Lord. So that, having engaged here below your heavenly power, I may offer, my thanksgiving and homage to the most loving of Fathers. O, St. Joseph, I never weary contemplating you, and Jesus asleep in your arms; I dare not approach while he reposes near your heart. Press Him in my name and kiss His fine head for me and ask Him to return the Kiss when I draw my dying breath. St. Joseph, Patron of departing souls - Pray for me. Amen.

OR.....

Pope Leo XIII's prayer to St. Joseph to be said after a Rosary...

To you, O Blessed Joseph, we come in our trials, and having asked the help of your most holy spouse, we confidently ask your patronage also. Through that sacred bond of charity which united you to the Immaculate Virgin Mother of God and through the fatherly love with which you embraced the Child Jesus, we humbly beg you to look graciously upon the beloved inheritance which Jesus Christ purchased by his blood, and to aid us in our necessities with your power and strength.
O most provident guardian of the Holy Family, defend the chosen children of Jesus Christ. Most beloved father, dispel the evil of falsehood and sin. Our most mighty protector, graciously assist us from heaven in our struggle with the powers of darkness. And just as you once saved the Child Jesus from mortal danger, so now defend God's Holy Church from the snares of her enemies and from all adversity. Shield each one of us by your constant protection, so that, supported by your example and your help, we may be able to live a virtuous life, to die a holy death, and to obtain eternal happiness in heaven. Amen.

Peace be with you....Pam

Tyndale · Jun 27, 2007

jckstraw72 said:
the title of this thread says there is NO "Josephology" and you've been proven wrong. so then you change your tactic to comparing how much veneration of Joseph to that of Mary.

I think the crux of Rick's thread is about comparing veneration (worship) between Joseph and Mary.

"the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God" 1 Corinthians 11:3

I the LORD do not change." Malachi 3:6

So, if the Lord doesn't change and the Lord commands that Joseph be the head of Mary unto God, when did it all change?

Oblio · Jun 27, 2007

That relationship does not extend outside 'marriage'. Leaving aside that they were Betrothed

Tyndale · Jun 27, 2007

Tyndale said:
I think the crux of Rick's thread is about comparing veneration (worship) between Joseph and Mary.

"the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God" 1 Corinthians 11:3

“I the LORD do not change." Malachi 3:6

So, if the Lord doesn't change and the Lord commands that Joseph be the head of Mary unto God, when did it all change?

Oblio said:
That relationship does not extend outside 'marriage'. Leaving aside that they were Betrothed

Where do you get that idea?

Paul was addressing the brethern (adephos) in Corintians. Does that mean it was only married men and their wives the message reached? OF,COURSE NOT. He was addressing the men, who would then address their women, sisters, duaghters.

Oblio · Jun 27, 2007

St. Paul was not telling the Church in Corinth that 'the man' is the head of anyone other than his wife. IOW, that honor (and sacrificial duty) does NOT extend outside the sacramental bounds of marriage. I am not the 'head' of any woman outside of my marriage. Nor is any woman outside of my marriage accountable to me - according to Holy Scripture. You are making the claim that since Joseph is the 'head' of his family in 'marriage' that that position extends outside the Royal family. This is anti-Scriptural.

Tyndale · Jun 27, 2007

Oblio said:
St. Paul was not telling the Church in Corinth that 'the man' is the head of anyone other than his wife. IOW, that honor (and sacrificial duty) does NOT extend outside the sacramental bounds of marriage. I am not the 'head' of any woman outside of my marriage. Nor is any woman outside of my marriage accountable to me - according to Holy Scripture. You are making the claim that since Joseph is the 'head' of his family in 'marriage' that that position extends outside the Royal family. This is anti-Scriptural.

You're the one making the claims here Oblio, not me. I asked you to show where the 'head' of the woman is marriage only, so can you?

Who's the 'head' of a unmarried daughter? a widowed wife? a sister without a husband? ............are they free spirits?

Oblio · Jun 27, 2007

Who's the 'head' of a unmarried daughter? a widowed wife? a sister without a husband?

Christ.

One is either called to marriage or monasticism.

Uphill Battle · Jun 27, 2007

I fail to see what all of this stuff about headship has anything to do with whether or not Mary gets more attention than Joseph?

Oblio · Jun 27, 2007

Uphill Battle said:
I fail to see what all of this stuff about headship has anything to do with whether or not Mary gets more attention than Joseph?

It doesn't, Tyndale was guessing (apparently incorrectly) that that was your line of reasoning in the OP.

Oblio · Jun 27, 2007

Oops, Rick's line of reasoning

Tyndale · Jun 27, 2007

Oblio said:
I am not the 'head' of any woman outside of my marriage. Nor is any woman outside of my marriage accountable to me - according to Holy Scripture.

Please will you tell me who said this in the bible and the issue it was dealing with? Thanks

Oblio said:
Tyndale said:

Who's the 'head' of a unmarried daughter? a widowed wife? a sister without a husband? ............are they free spirits?

Click to expand...

Christ.

One is either called to marriage or monasticism.

Can you not deal with the question without going off on some wild tangent supporting celibacy and chastity

Again I ask, Who's the head of an unmarried daughter? a widowed wife? a sister without a husband?....

Uphill Battle · Jun 27, 2007

Oblio said:
It doesn't, Tyndale was guessing (apparently incorrectly) that that was your line of reasoning in the OP.

OP isn't mine.

Oblio · Jun 27, 2007

Can you not deal with the question without going off on some wild tangent supporting celibacy and chastity

You don't support celibacy and chastity for an
'unmarried daughter? a widowed wife? a sister without a husband?'

And YOU were the one that asked the question

Again I ask, Who's the head of an unmarried daughter? a widowed wife? a sister without a husband?....

And I already answered. Christ

What? No Josephology?!?!?

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