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I am a college professor, and I take issue with this sweeping generalization about professors. I am a gay college professor, and I would never shut down a student for expressing his or her views about gay people, whatever those views are.
I recently attended the wedding of two former students of mine, now both successful lawyers. One of them, the young man, was regarded as Mr. Conservative on our campus. He was and is a conservative Catholic. He told me as a student that I was his favorite professor, and he took many courses with me. He asked me to be his academic advisor. We stayed in touch as he entered and completed law school and got his first job. He and his finacee, another of my students with whom I stayed in touch, invited me to their wedding, the only one of their former professors that they invited.
My student and I disagreed about most issues, and yet I was his favorite professor. That's because I encouraged him, and I taught him how to think, not what to think.
Please do not make sweeping generalizations about professors "persecuting" conservative Christian students. All students are treated as equals and are encouraged and respected on our college campus, regardless of their beliefs on any subject. No student would ever be punished for his or her beliefs or expelled from the college because of his or her beliefs.
We at our college insist that faculty and students treat each other with respect and that students treat each other with respect. That means all students, including gay students and conservative Christian students. And our students usually do treat each other with respect, and they listen to each other's different beliefs.
Those Scripture verses are not obscure OR vague! They are plain and clear and they tell you that you are wrong to commit homosexual acts--so wrong that you will be condemned for it--regardless of whether or not one plasters the name of "Christian" on one's lapel or not.
Well, you are right, not all gay professors are "thought police" jerks, like the one mentioned in my post. Still, there are evidences that such educational biases exist in many schools. Perhaprs, it would have been a good idea, if you talked to that particular professor, and tell him to stop mistreating his students, simply because they have different views.
Wow! It's amazing that now the Left went even after the rappers, something that does not happen in our country. Rappers in the US, say any target groups of people many times. I saw something about what is going on in the Uk right here:
http://www.christian.org.uk/rel_liberties/roberts_case/video/roberts_case.htm
Are you familiar with this?
I was unaware of this particular case but it doesn't surprise me because over the last two or three years the authorities have become security conscious.
People with outspoken views such as commited Christians are attracting attention from the authorities in the UK at this present time.
The Roberts case is a case and point. Incidently, the new hate crime bill that is proposed by Jack Straw will exasparate this situation even further.
I am aware that in the Roberts case the local authority and the local police gave an apology but further legislation proposed may gave the authority and police further powers to stop people like the Roberts from expressing their views.
There could be a case in the future where expressing one's view on a forum like this one may risk the eventuality of a conviction under this new act (if passed).
Of course, this an American site and posters maybe protected under the American Constitution as far as free speech is concerned but that may not be the case for posters from the UK or the other countries including the EU which is big on Human Rights.
Here is a link to the current, Hate Crime bill.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-victims/reducing-crime/hate-crime/
Here is an articule from a man who is gay and would be protected under this new bill. He who opposes this new bill stating that the bill is anti free speech.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/11/09/do0904.xml
Another articule where even jokes can be targeted:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/08/ngay108.xml
The laws in the UK are very different from the laws in the United States. Because of the first amendment, laws restricting speech are mostly not permitted. Hate crimes laws do exist, though they penalize the actions of the perpetrator, not speech by the perpetrator. Presently there is a federal hate crimes law that applies to crimes motivated by the victim's religion, while there is no federal hate crimes law that applies to crimes motivated by the victim's sexual orientation. Quite a few state hate crimes laws cover religion but not sexual orientation. These hate crimes laws actually protect religious freedom rather than restricting it, by providing enhanced penalties for crimes motivated by the victim's religion.Wow! It's amazing that now the Left went even after the rappers, something that does not happen in our country. Rappers in the US, say any target groups of people many times. I saw something about what is going on in the Uk right here:
http://www.christian.org.uk/rel_liberties/roberts_case/video/roberts_case.htm
Are you familiar with this?
I was unaware of this particular case but it doesn't surprise me because over the last two or three years the authorities have become security conscious.
People with outspoken views such as commited Christians are attracting attention from the authorities in the UK at this present time.
The Roberts case is a case and point. Incidently, the new hate crime bill that is proposed by Jack Straw will exasparate this situation even further.
I am aware that in the Roberts case the local authority and the local police gave an apology but further legislation proposed may gave the authority and police further powers to stop people like the Roberts from expressing their views.
There could be a case in the future where expressing one's view on a forum like this one may risk the eventuality of a conviction under this new act (if passed).
Of course, this an American site and posters maybe protected under the American Constitution as far as free speech is concerned but that may not be the case for posters from the UK or the other countries including the EU which is big on Human Rights.
Here is a link to the current, Hate Crime bill.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-victims/reducing-crime/hate-crime/
Here is an articule from a man who is gay and would be protected under this new bill. He who opposes this new bill stating that the bill is anti free speech.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/11/09/do0904.xml
Another articule where even jokes can be targeted:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/08/ngay108.xml
NO! They are no longer clear because of the cultural divide and language barrier between us and writers and the original readers. We have to learn what those writers and original readers would have automatically understood.
The Leviticus ban was binding only on the people of Israel and, like the dietary laws, and Sabbath laws, are specifically not binding on Christians. Arsenokoites (1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy) is obscure and of uncertain meaning. Even assuming that it refers back to the Leviticus ban, there is nothing in either verse to indicate that it applies to anyone other than non-Christian Jews.
The passage in Romans 1 is not about homosexuality at all (except that the example Plato chose happened to be same-sex), but about lack of self-control leading to addiction.
No other passages explicitly condemn homosexuality. There are a few quoted, but they can only be used in conjuction with an a priori assumption that homosexuality is wrong.
Wow! It's amazing that now the Left went even after the rappers, something that does not happen in our country. Rappers in the US, say any target groups of people many times. I saw something about what is going on in the Uk right here:
http://www.christian.org.uk/rel_liberties/roberts_case/video/roberts_case.htm
Are you familiar with this?
I was unaware of this particular case but it doesn't surprise me because over the last two or three years the authorities have become security conscious.
People with outspoken views such as commited Christians are attracting attention from the authorities in the UK at this present time.
The Roberts case is a case and point. Incidently, the new hate crime bill that is proposed by Jack Straw will exasparate this situation even further.
I am aware that in the Roberts case the local authority and the local police gave an apology but further legislation proposed may gave the authority and police further powers to stop people like the Roberts from expressing their views.
There could be a case in the future where expressing one's view on a forum like this one may risk the eventuality of a conviction under this new act (if passed).
Of course, this an American site and posters maybe protected under the American Constitution as far as free speech is concerned but that may not be the case for posters from the UK or the other countries including the EU which is big on Human Rights.
Here is a link to the current, Hate Crime bill.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/crime-victims/reducing-crime/hate-crime/
Here is an articule from a man who is gay and would be protected under this new bill. He who opposes this new bill stating that the bill is anti free speech.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2007/11/09/do0904.xml
Another articule where even jokes can be targeted:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/11/08/ngay108.xml
The Roberts video is faulty, so I can't make it out.
However, it is already a law here in Canada that one cannot speak out against homosexuality publically. I'm waiting for the RCMP to come and drag me away...hehe.
NO! They are no longer clear because of the cultural divide and language barrier between us and writers and the original readers. We have to learn what those writers and original readers would have automatically understood.
The Leviticus ban was binding only on the people of Israel and, like the dietary laws, and Sabbath laws, are specifically not binding on Christians. Arsenokoites (1 Corinthians and 1 Timothy) is obscure and of uncertain meaning. Even assuming that it refers back to the Leviticus ban, there is nothing in either verse to indicate that it applies to anyone other than non-Christian Jews.
The passage in Romans 1 is not about homosexuality at all (except that the example Plato chose happened to be same-sex), but about lack of self-control leading to addiction.
No other passages explicitly condemn homosexuality. There are a few quoted, but they can only be used in conjuction with an a priori assumption that homosexuality is wrong.
Keep trying? Trying what? He has done it all for us.
I cannot tell another professor how to teach his or her classes. It's not my business to do so. Sorry. What is your evidence that "such educational biases exist in many schools?" Many colleges and universities have a non-discrimination policy that prohibits discrimination on the basis of both religion and sexual orientation. That's not a bias in favor of or against any particular religion or sexual orientation; it's a position of inclusion and fairness for all. What professors teach is up to them in most cases. College and university administrations usually do not dictate course content. The professor, as a professional with a PhD in his or her field, is expected to decide what to teach based on his or her expertise in their particular field.
The Roberts video is faulty, so I can't make it out.
However, it is already a law here in Canada that one cannot speak out against homosexuality publically. I'm waiting for the RCMP to come and drag me away...hehe.
Amen, sister.
I admire your courage to live and suffer for Christ. You know; it's a blessing:
1 Peter 4:12-19 says:
12Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. 13But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. 14If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. 15If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. 16However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. 17For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18And,
"If it is hard for the righteous to be saved,
what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"[a]
19So then, those who suffer according to God's will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.
May God protect you, and turn the heart of those who rebel against him, including the Gay Gestapo.
Well, clearly you cannot refute my statements so you tried to mock them. Unfortunately for you, it only shows how unprepared you are to discuss the very scriptures you claim to base your life on.
If you do not know the Bible, just admit it and then we will all know to simply ignore any posts you make. If you do understand the teachings of the prophets and the apostles, please enlighten us. Quote chapter and verse with exegesis, if you don't mind.
All right. For the start, I suggest you take a look at the link to ADF, I listed in my post. If you search that site, you'll see that almost every month, they work in litigations involving Chrstian college students, who are being silenced by their professors, not only over the issue of homosexuality, but also about evolution and moral relativism. Also, I recommend you to read the book "Professors" by David Horowitz.
So, are you saying that you are indifferent to what happened to that girl in Missouri State? Am I right? It's not your business, correct? That being the case, maybe it shouldn't be the business of Soulforce Equality Riders what is being taught in Christian colleges? Since they are private, under Constitution they have a right to teach and exclude anybody and anything they want: right to assemble/disassemble. Surely, private secular colleges can exclude conservative Christian students from counseling/social work programs, if those students don't want to advocate "social justice," implying gay marriage, like they did it with me. So, according to the law, it is a pretty fair game.
Also, I feel sorry for those young kids of Equality Ride. They are being used and manipulated by a psychopath suffering from grandeur delusion, Mel White. The same problems Lenin, Hitler, and Saddam Hussein had. Like them, White is using youth to accomplish his agenda, which is to seek power, while building up his cult of personality. If you vist Soulforce forums, you will see that people over there, idolize him with a passion.
I would say that those SFers whom you call Christians, are Christians in a cultural sense, but not because of faith conviction. This means, they believe that Christianity is good, but so are other faiths/philosophies. That's okay. I used to be a "cultural" Christian for quite a long time. It took me several years, including a number of crappy experiences, to change my views, and finally understand that Jesus is the only truth. Thus, I pray for them, for Mel White, and for you, that Jesus will come to your hearts and you will realize that he is the only way and the truth to God.
I would not trust anything by David Horowitz. He is a former left-wing kook turned right-wing kook. He lurched from one extreme to the other.Amen, sister.
I admire your courage to live and suffer for Christ. You know; it's a blessing:
1 Peter 4:12-19 says:
12Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. 13But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. 14If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. 15If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. 16However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. 17For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18And,
"If it is hard for the righteous to be saved,
what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"[a]
19So then, those who suffer according to God's will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.
May God protect you, and turn the heart of those who rebel against him, including the Gay Gestapo.
I have read this book of his, and it's nearly all nonsense. He is a demagogue. He made a name for himself by writing absurdities that appeal to the extreme right wing.
The kids on the Equality Rides are brave and committed. I admire them. There is no reason to feel sorry for them. I think Mel White is terrific.
Obviously you and I come from different viewpoints.
Don't trouble yourself with what you think my shortcomings are. I know the word of God, and more importantly, I know the Lord God.
My whitewash comment was a legitimate opinion pointing out exactly what you were doing to the word of God you claim to know.
In order to know His word, you need to know Him, the author. That's a safe bet you will get the understanding He aims you to have. When you have a relationship with your Creator, you can be sure He will correct you when you get off on tangents or begin to fall for wrong doctrine and interpretations.
You have fallen for a contrived interpretation.
It's not my business as a faculty member to intervene in a difference between a professor and a student at another institution. The institution needs to deal with this, and institutions have means to deal with such disputes. It would be entirely inappropriate for a professor from another institution with no first-hand knowledge of what took place to stick his or her nose into a situation like this, especially with an untrustworthy source reporting the information. The Soulforce Equality Riders are visiting Christian colleges as individuals seeking to share in dialogue. They are not professors at other institutions. I also teach at a private college, and I welcome people coming to visit our campus to present their viewpoints.All right. For the start, I suggest you take a look at the link to ADF, I listed in my post. If you search that site, you'll see that almost every month, they work in litigations involving Chrstian college students, who are being silenced by their professors, not only over the issue of homosexuality, but also about evolution and moral relativism. Also, I recommend you to read the book "Professors" by David Horowitz.
So, are you saying that you are indifferent to what happened to that girl in Missouri State? Am I right? It's not your business, correct? That being the case, maybe it shouldn't be the business of Soulforce Equality Riders what is being taught in Christian colleges? Since they are private, under Constitution they have a right to teach and exclude anybody and anything they want: right to assemble/disassemble. Surely, private secular colleges can exclude conservative Christian students from counseling/social work programs, if those students don't want to advocate "social justice," implying gay marriage, like they did it with me. So, according to the law, it is a pretty fair game.
Also, I feel sorry for those young kids of Equality Ride. They are being used and manipulated by a psychopath suffering from grandeur delusion, Mel White. The same problems Lenin, Hitler, and Saddam Hussein had. Like them, White is using youth to accomplish his agenda, which is to seek power, while building up his cult of personality. If you vist Soulforce forums, you will see that people over there, idolize him with a passion.
I would say that those SFers whom you call Christians, are Christians in a cultural sense, but not because of faith conviction. This means, they believe that Christianity is good, but so are other faiths/philosophies. That's okay. I used to be a "cultural" Christian for quite a long time. It took me several years, including a number of crappy experiences, to change my views, and finally understand that Jesus is the only truth. Thus, I pray for them, for Mel White, and for you, that Jesus will come to your hearts and you will realize that he is the only way and the truth to God.
There is no "gay gestapo." This is all in your imagination. There are gay people working for equal treatment under the law for all people. There are gay Christians like the young people from the Equality Rides who are working to promote fair treatment and acceptance of gay people by all Christians. I hope you believe in that, but perhaps you do not.May God protect you, and turn the heart of those who rebel against him, including the Gay Gestapo.
There, I think I have gotten material involving you edited out of my response to another poster. Thank you for pointing this out. I am not adept at using the reply features; I usually just hit reply to the whole post, which winds up including everything that was in the previous post.Ohioprof:
Your last post had me quoting something someone else said. Can you please edit it?
Thanks.
Contrived by whom? By the Holy Spirit? By Paul? Everything I have said comes either directly from the Bible or, in the case of understanding words and phrases, from history and literature of the time.
The doctrines come from the Bible after I prayerfully undertake gaining an understanding the verses the way the original readers would have understood them.
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