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What marked the beginning and end of Days 1–⁠3 in Genesis?

tonychanyt

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Gn 1:

1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
It began with darkness.

The first day was demarcated by darkness and the creation of light. This was followed by a symbolic evening. The "evening and morning" formula served more as a literary device to structure the narrative than as a literal time measurement. Then:

God created Heaven on the 2nd day. Again, a symbolic evening followed.

On the third day, God created Earth and plants. The sun came next:

14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night.
If God created the sun on the fourth day, what form of measurement determined the beginning and end of the first three “days”?

There wasn't a precise numerical measurement to define those the first 3 days. Rather, those were logical divisions/days in the creation narrative.
 

Josheb

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Hi Tony,

Hope you had blessed and joyous holidays.

First Question: Why do you think it "a symbolic evening" is the best explanation, better than God finishing His work for that period of time (however long or short it may have been)? Consider how scripture later qualifies a man's wages based on a day's work.

Second (paired) Question: Since a "day" is normally defined as one rotation of the earth relevant to the sun (which takes approximately 24 hours) but there was no sun to serve as a reference point for that rotation (and therefore no means of marking the movement of sunlight on the planet) how do you think a day was measured by God?

Third Question: What do you say to those who believe the text should be read literally, thinking the word "day" can and does refer only to a 24-hour period of time (when there is literally no literal definition of a "day" provided in the text)?
There wasn't a precise numerical measurement to define those the first 3 days. Rather, those were logical divisions/days in the creation narrative.
I completely agree with both statements and will add the divisions are best interpreted by other scripture, not extra-biblical science (a day being 24 hours) that could not have existed during the first four days.
 
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roman2819

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the 24-hour day was created on the 4th Day. There were no sun and moon as we know it on first 3 Days. So what is evening and morning at the end of each Day?

I believed that the word Day implies a stage, a phase, a timeframe. It is figurative. The creation took place in organized stages. At the first phase, light was created, followed by the sky, then the land and sea. Later, in distinct stages, God created the stars, vegetation, flying creatures, sea habitants, and finally, land animals, followed by man and woman. He did not create randomly, so to speak: He did not make the stars, then the land, some living creatures, and then create more stars again; instead, He proceeded in an orderly way.

Why did the Bible use the word Day instead of stage or phase? The word Day fits the prose of writing in religious scriptures. For different subjects, be it engineering, human literature, fiction, magazines or newspapers, there are different ways of writing. Chemistry books are written in a factual way, while consumer magazines use words to capture our interests and promote sales. In Chinese culture, the word day can refer to heaven or the deities that dwell in heaven -- and this is not a unique view; it is not unusual for earthly beings to look at the sky and moon, and wonder if there are gods that live far beyond the stars. In the Bible, in the context of creation, Day alludes to a passage of time.

In the first chapter of Genesis, at the end of each day, the Bible said, “There was evening and there was morning.” However, if the sun and moon were created on the fourth day, how did evenings and mornings happen during the first three Days? As well, notice the order: It was not morning, then evening. Instead, it was the reverse: Evening first, followed by morning. I believe that evening means the end of a stage, not sunset. And morning means the beginning of another phase, not sunrise. As well, it does not mean that the amount of time for each day was the same. To gather the land into one place would take much less time than to create the thousand kinds of sea creatures.

The Bible gives a brief summary of how the twenty-four hour day was created on the fourth Day (or stage). “And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years" [Genesis 1:14]. This is the construction of day, night and years – which are based on the twenty-four hour timeframe we live in.

The Creator made a greater light (the sun), the lesser light (the moon) and the stars, then “set them (the sun, moon and stars) in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness” [Genesis 1:18]. For the first time in the creation process, the sun, moon and stars were used to create day and night as we know it; and this is different from the first day of creation, when God used the word day (to denote light) and night (to denote darkness). Observe how the same word, day, is used both figuratively and literally, and in different ways – similar to how the term, God's will, refers to a deliberate plan, permissive will or His will for our way of life. It demonstrates the point: Don’t read words only, understand the context.

Moses said to the people, “For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them” [Exodus 20:11]. But back then, could they have known that, in the context of creation, the word ‘day’ was figurative? Indeed, I believe that Moses would be amused at the thought of how thousands of kinds of living things – falcons, kingfishers, leopards, giraffe, hens, worms, ants, ant-eaters, cats and so on – would materialize suddenly in seventy-two hours, as if God had used CGI (computer graphics interface). Why would He rush to create at such a superfast pace? Instead, I believe the Lord planned out the ecology, constructed the atmosphere and elements, then the landscape and fauna. With these structures in place, He placed the sun and moon in place so the earth has day and night, then proceeded to design and make the lifeforms in the sea and on land. Likewise, for people that like to work on jigsaw puzzles, do they buy an already assembled product or do they enjoy connecting the pieces?

- Excerpt from 'Understanding Prayer, Faith and God's Will' by Roman Ri
 
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David Lamb

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Genesis isn't about material creation. The sun was present before God created it:

@David Lamb you might find this useful.
However many videos you post you will not convince me that the sun was present before God created it. I do know a hymn which has the following words: "I thank Thee, uncreated Sun," but it's talking about Jesus Christ, Who is sometimes called the Sun of righteousness.
 
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Job 33:6

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What did you think about how, in the historical context of the ancient near east, creation was thought of, by Babylonians, Egyptians, Akkadians, Assyrians, Sumerians etc. not in ex nihilo terms, but rather from chaos (tohu wa bohu) to order? And that these texts likewise would begin with darkness and water, rather than empty space?
 
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David Lamb

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I don't see the need to investigate how creation was thought of by Babylonians, Egyptians etc. (No offence to them or you intended, of course.) God gave us His word the bible to reveal His truth.
 
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Job 33:6

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I don't see the need to investigate how creation was thought of by Babylonians, Egyptians etc. (No offence to them or you intended, of course.) God gave us His word the bible to reveal His truth.
Indeed:

Genesis 1:1-2 NRSVUE
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters.
 
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David Lamb

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Indeed:

Genesis 1:1-2 NRSVUE
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters.
I am no Hebrew expert, but I wonder if somebody who knows Hebrew can tell us how valid "complete chaos" is as a translation of tohuw and bohuw. Most other English translations have something like "formless and empty" or "without form and void" or something similar.
 
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Job 33:6

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Chaos is just a word used to describe that which is formless and empty. Like a desert. There is no form, or structure to it. Deserts in a sense are also empty. Empty of birds and fish, plants and so on. Just barren. Or "nothing". Nothing there. Without meaning or purpose. Disorder.
 
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David Lamb

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I think "chaos" tends to mean more than that in ordinary conversation. When we say "Snow and ice have caused chaos on the roads." we surely don't mean that the roads are formless and empty, but that lot of wrong things have happened because of the snow and ice - vehicles have skidded, crashed into one another and so on.
 
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Job 33:6

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Are you familiar with Isaiah 34:11 and it's use of tohu? I'd much rather be on icy roads than in that passage.

Or in Jeremiah, Jerusalem is destroyed, it is, tohu.

No single English word can define it, but translators do what they can.

You can see here how different Bibles translate it. Chaos is a common choice:

Definition: Formlessness, emptiness, confusion, chaos, nothingness
Meaning: a desolation, desert, a worthless thing, in vain

Word Origin: Derived from an unused root meaning to lie waste

Corresponding Greek / Hebrew Entries: The Greek equivalent often used in the Septuagint for "tohu" is "ἀκαταστασία" (akatastasia), which means disorder or confusion.

Usage: The Hebrew word "tohu" is often used to describe a state of formlessness or emptiness. It conveys a sense of chaos or disorder, often in a primordial or desolate context. In the Bible, "tohu" is used to depict the initial state of the earth before God's creative order was established, as well as to describe desolation or confusion in a metaphorical sense.


Ultimately, this term is not empty space like we think about rocket ships moving through.

In the beginning when God created, or when God created, the earth was tohu. Chaos. Disordered. Without meaning etc.
 
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David Lamb

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Right, provided we are not saying that God created a universe with wrong things happening in it, the cosmic equivalents of cars skidding and crashing into each other.
 
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Job 33:6

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This is a good one:
Jeremiah 4:4, 19-20, 23-24, 26-29 ESV
[4] Circumcise yourselves to the Lord; remove the foreskin of your hearts, O men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem; lest my wrath go forth like fire, and burn with none to quench it, because of the evil of your deeds.”
[19] My anguish, my anguish! I writhe in pain! Oh the walls of my heart! My heart is beating wildly; I cannot keep silent, for I hear the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war. [20] Crash follows hard on crash; the whole land is laid waste. Suddenly my tents are laid waste, my curtains in a moment.
[23] I looked on the earth, and behold, it was without form and void; and to the heavens, and they had no light. [24] I looked on the mountains, and behold, they were quaking, and all the hills moved to and fro.
[26] I looked, and behold, the fruitful land was a desert, and all its cities were laid in ruins before the Lord, before his fierce anger. [27] For thus says the Lord, “The whole land shall be a desolation; yet I will not make a full end. [28] “For this the earth shall mourn, and the heavens above be dark; for I have spoken; I have purposed; I have not relented, nor will I turn back.” [29] At the noise of horseman and archer every city takes to flight; they enter thickets; they climb among rocks; all the cities are forsaken, and no man dwells in them.

That's a good example of tohu. Doesn't get more chaotic than this. There are no cars or snow however.
 
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Job 33:6

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Right, provided we are not saying that God created a universe with wrong things happening in it, the cosmic equivalents of cars skidding and crashing into each other.
Yes.

The chaos and tohu is not what God created. God created light and God moved the chaotic waters off of the earth. God separated the waters and gathered them to form the seas. God then filled it with animals.

Gods creation is not the chaos. Gods creation addresses the chaos.

Genesis 1:1-3 NRSVUE
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth, [2] the earth was complete chaos, and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God swept over the face of the waters. [3] Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.

When God began to create, the earth was chaos, and so God said, let there be light.

Like saying, when the fireman began to put out the fire (create the house), and the fire had engulfed the house, then the fireman said, let there be a water hydrant.

The fireman, in Genesis, didn't create the fire. He created the water to address the fire. And in that sense, the house was brought out of tohu. Or created out of tohu.

That's probably not the best analogy.

Or if we think about a pile of children's Legos. God didn't create the chaotic pile. Rather God created the lego house out of the chaotic pile. God did not create the chaos. Rather, the lego house was created out of chaos.

Or another easy way to think about it, is to just think of Noah's flood. God un-created the earth when He flooded it. Genesis 1 is like Noah's flood, but in reverse.
 
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Job 33:6

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There we go, @David Lamb, that's the analogy I was looking for. Genesis 1 is just Noah's flood, in reverse. That might be one of the easiest ways to think about it. Instead of flooding the earth, imagine that it's already flooded, then God un-floods it (see day 2 and 3 in particular). Then fills it with animals.
 
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