what Law did Jesus replace?

ozell · Nov 23, 2009

long after Jesus resurrection the New Covenant firmly in place the Aspostle Paul taught the Gentiles to keep the sabbath!!!

Can you please cite biblical evidence to support your statement?

sure

Mt 27v46: And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
47: Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.
48: And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.
49: The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.
50: Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Now you answer me this when the veil rent in the temple, what did it signify?

stelow · Nov 23, 2009

I am reposting these scriptures, because to understand them is important.

Galatians 3:21-25
21Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. 23Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

Jessica01 · Nov 23, 2009

ozell said:
[/color]

sure

Mt 27v46: And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
47: Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.
48: And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.
49: The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.
50: Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Now you answer me this when the veil rent in the temple, what did it signify?

It signified that man could now approach the throne of grace directly and ask for grace and help.

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

The old coventant is replaced with the new.

You were not providing a response to the question ozell.

Jessica01 · Nov 23, 2009

ozell said:
what commandments do you know in the bible? Don't play ignorant Now!

I gave them to you? except what you read.

Long after Jesus death and resurrection Paul taught the gentiles the sabbath day, you read it.

Now Paul taught the gentiles only what was written in the OLD TESTAMENT from the books of Moses and the Prophets.

ONE
Acts 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

TWO
Acts 26:22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

THREE
Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

AGAIN

Paul taught from the books of MOSES AND THE PROPHETS!!

the law!!!!

That is because the Law pointed to Christ. Christ is the fulfillment of the law.

I notice you strongly rely on the Old Testament (covenant) scriptures rather than the new.

Jessica01 · Nov 23, 2009

ozell said:
Israel has the Answers of God

Rom 9v1: I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
2: That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
3: For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

it is a matter of fact that the Israelites have everything that belong to God.

Now where did you get this stuff you are teaching, surely it came not from God, nor out of his word or from his people.

Continue reading in Romans - Isreal is partially blinded until the time of the Gentiles is over.

You are trying to convince folks to go back under the bondage of the Law, rather than stay in the freedom and blessing of the New Covenant.

NatalieJan777 · Nov 23, 2009

Hentenza said:
Please read it in context. That verse does not say what you are intending to say. Begin in verse 22.

I know what the context is. Jesus was casting out devils by the power of the spirit and was accused of doing so through satan.

As a Christian being moved by the HOLY SPRIT to please GOD, many times I am accused of following satan by attemting to keep GOD's commandments, laws and decrees. In my eyes my intent for using that scripture was in context.

What you said before the response to this one I agree with in part, because without the indwelling Holy Spirit nothing could be done. GOD sent Christ and will reunite HIS people to HIMSELF not for anything we have done but only for HIS NAME SAKE.

If we refuse to feel the guilt of our evil ways and turn from them there is no repentance and without repentance there will be no forgiveness, for what sin we bind on earth we will have to give account for it before the great white throne of GOD. But what ever sin we loose here on earth by repentance will not even be brought up before the great white throne, because what GOD through CHRIST JESUS forgives will be forgotten.

Hentenza · Nov 23, 2009

ozell said:
ozell said:

Jesus saves, he is the one who saves.

Click to expand...

Yep!!

By keeping the law, it will get you the chance of salvation which is Eternal life in the kingdom of God.

Click to expand...

Nope. Can you show me from scripture an example of anyone that was saved by keeping the law?

Mt 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17: And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18: He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19: Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Click to expand...

And yet, you are missing the main point of Jesus teaching to the young ruler. The young ruler had it all except faith in Jesus Christ. The young ruler trusted himself and his possessions instead of trusting in the Lord. Jesus told him to sell all of his possessions and follow Him, do you know why?

Also, notice which commandments Jesus told the young ruler to follow. Each one of them Jesus commanded in Matthew 5-7. These are part of the new covenant. The clue? Is thou shall love thy neighbor as yourself part of the commandments listed in the tablets?

eternal life and entering into life is the the same as salvation or being saved.

Click to expand...

Sure. Eternal life is the result of salvation.

Jesus death is the remission of our past sins.

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

once we come under the blood of Jesus

Click to expand...

Do you know what the result of the sacrifice of the cross is? Tell you what, look at the following verses and explain which sins are "remitted" and for how long. These verses tell you exactly what a person needs for justification and it makes it clear that following the law is not it.

Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[h] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Tell me, what is justification? How is a person justified? What is propitation?

PS. I will not answer the other posts that you made to me because my response would be the same.

Hentenza · Nov 23, 2009

NatalieJan777 said:
I know what the context is. Jesus was casting out devils by the power of the spirit and was accused of doing so through satan.

As a Christian being moved by the HOLY SPRIT to please GOD, many times I am accused of following satan by attemting to keep GOD's commandments, laws and decrees. In my eyes my intent for using that scripture was in context.

What you said before the response to this one I agree with in part, because without the indwelling Holy Spirit nothing could be done. GOD sent Christ and will reunite HIS people to HIMSELF not for anything we have done but only for HIS NAME SAKE.

If we refuse to feel the guilt of our evil ways and turn from them there is no repentance and without repentance there will be no forgiveness, for what sin we bind on earth we will have to give account for it before the great white throne of GOD. But what ever sin we loose here on earth by repentance will not even be brought up before the great white throne, because what GOD through CHRIST JESUS forgives will be forgotten.

You know, I agree with most of your post, however, you are still missing the point that the Mosaic law was fulfilled by Christ and therefore, all of the law has been fulfilled. Following the law never saved anyone. There is no example of anyone saved by the law in scripture. Even in OT times people were saved by faith in God.

Tell you what, I'll post the same verses that I posted for another poster here and ask you what it means regarding the efficacy of the law. I am also going to ask you to biblically define justification and its implications as well as to define propitation.

Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Natalie, Jesus was clear that the legalism imparted by those attempting to follow the Mosaic laws was wrong. That is probably why you are criticized so harshly for attempting to promote it. Legalism is of man not of God because it removes God and replaces it with man. Christians are not saved by legalism and neither did anyone else through time. God is sovereign so salvation is a work of God not a work of man. Grace is a free gift. No one can work for grace because working for grace is no grace at all. We can not work for grace by following the Mosaic law. That is why Paul calls it the ministry of death.

NatalieJan777 · Nov 23, 2009

Hentenza said:
Tell you what, I'll post the same verses that I posted for another poster here and ask you what it means regarding the efficacy of the law. I am also going to ask you to biblically define justification and its implications as well as to define propitation.

Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Natalie, Jesus was clear that the legalism imparted by those attempting to follow the Mosaic laws was wrong. That is probably why you are criticized so harshly for attempting to promote it. Legalism is of man not of God because it removes God and replaces it with man. Christians are not saved by legalism and neither did anyone else through time. God is sovereign so salvation is a work of God not a work of man. Grace is a free gift. No one can work for grace because working for grace is no grace at all. We can not work for grace by following the Mosaic law. That is why Paul calls it the ministry of death.

Jesus was clear that the pharisees and teachers of the law made up their own rules as to what the laws meant. They changed them, they took faithfulness, mercy and justice from the law and replaced them with what man wanted more which were traditions and desires of their own.

I will be honest, I do not even know the definitions to the above words of yours that I have highlighted, therefore I cannot answer the questions that you have posed.

I do know the Laws of GOD however and know that keeping them pleases HIM. Moses and Elijah were two men, who evidently were saved, are you saying it was not by doing the will of our Heavenly Father by observance of the law? (Matthew 17:1-13). And it wasn't by Christ Jesus either for He was still alive during this occurance. If you can biblically show me this to be false please do.

I love my Lord and Savior. Can you tell me what it means in scripture that HIS disciple must be willing to deny themselves, pick up their crosses and follow HIM? or If one causes another to sin how it would be better for him to have a milstone hung around his neck and then thrown into a river? or If your eye causes you to sin gouge it out for it is better for you to enter life maim then not to enter it at all?

Grace may be a free gift, but did it not come at a price? Was not GOD greived continually by the sins of man? Did not Jesus suffer as a human for those who grieved GOD? How can not greiving GOD by obedience to the same laws we will abide by for eternity be something anyone would disagree with?

I do not mean to be stubborn about my point of view, which I am sure you do not as well. Possibly we could agree to just disagree and let GOD judge between the two of us Himself? We could go back and forth many times on this debate and possibly not ever see eye to eye. I cannot do anything other than what the Holy Spirit leads me to do, and that is to attempt compliance to the will of GOD. I already know who Jesus is, HE is my redeemer, without HIM I am nothing.

Isaiah 59:20 "The redeemer will come from Zion to those in Jacob who repent of their sins" declares the Lord

ozell · Nov 24, 2009

stelow said:
I am reposting these scriptures, because to understand them is important.

Galatians 3:21-25
21Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. 23Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

what law are we not under?

to a babe in the word this is alien words.

what law are we not under?

look in the passage it says 22But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin,

you mean sin is still here even after Jesus death and resurrection.

what law is Paul talking about?

ozell · Nov 24, 2009

Jessica01 said:
Continue reading in Romans - Isreal is partially blinded until the time of the Gentiles is over.

You are trying to convince folks to go back under the bondage of the Law, rather than stay in the freedom and blessing of the New Covenant.

what is the bondage of the law?

what law am I trying to convince people to go back to?

is it wrong to tell people to keep God's law, lets read what Paul said long after Jesus died and rose

Rom 13v 8: Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9: For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10: Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Do you have a problem with me for telling the people to follow these laws of God?

Paul just told you to and why don't you criticize his writings?

do you keep these or are they a bondage to you?

ozell · Nov 24, 2009

Jessica01 said:
It signified that man could now approach the throne of grace directly and ask for grace and help.

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

The old covenant is replaced with the new.

You were not providing a response to the question ozell.

the person claim to know that the law is done away with surely the person understand the purpose of the veil.

maybe you can answer the question and the passage in Hebrews you put is after Jesus death so the veil is not there at that time, before Jesus died and rose the temple had a veil where the high priest would enter.

what was the purpose of the veil ripping at Jesus death?

ozell · Nov 24, 2009

Jessica01 said:
That is because the Law pointed to Christ. Christ is the fulfillment of the law.

I notice you strongly rely on the Old Testament (covenant) scriptures rather than the new.

what Law did Jesus fulfill? what Law?

I rely on both testament Sister!

SoundCard · Nov 24, 2009

ozell said:
what is the bondage of the law?

what law am I trying to convince people to go back to?

is it wrong to tell people to keep God's law, lets read what Paul said long after Jesus died and rose

Rom 13v 8: Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9: For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10: Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Do you have a problem with me for telling the people to follow these laws of God?

Paul just told you to and why don't you criticize his writings?

do you keep these or are they a bondage to you?

From my understanding, what it all really comes down to is the spirit of the rationale behind it. Don't vs. Don't want to.

Living by the law can betray the heart of hte believer because it's essentially, a series of 'do nots'. Living by the Spirit is more lively as it is a series of 'don't want to's'.

Do not kill goes to -> I love you too much to want to hurt you.
Don't commit adultery -> I love you too much to want to be with anyone else.
Do not steal -> I love you too much to try and hurt you by taking your hard earned possessions.
Do not covet -> I love you too much to let something as petty as stuff get between us.
Honor thy Mother and Father -> I love my parents too much to be disobey them, etc, etc, etc. Do you see the point here? When you love someone you won't want to harm them, but see them prosper, the commandments were implemented to condemn sin because people were doing what they ought not to be doing, so they had to be flat out told 'DO NOT DO THESE THINGS FOR THESE ARE THE WAY OF DEATH'.

In Jesus Christ, we are brought alive to something where we are instead changed at the heart itself and told 'LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF' that is, take care of one another, build up one another, edify one another, do not harm one another, love God more than your things, let your nature become like His nature.

Really, the bar is set MUCH higher in the New Covenant than it is in the Old, but we have Jesus Christ there to rest upon, in the Old Covenant you didn't have that assurance... animals that touched the sacred mountain site were to be stoned to death, yet in the new, you can now freely approach the throne of grace itself with confidence? Why is that? Christ's atonement is complete. There is no need for further sacrifice - there's no more place for condemnation of sin.

Law requires sacrifices to cover sin. Sin offerings are repeated due to violations of the law.
Jesus' work on the Cross is our final sin offering -> the law is no longer trespassed because we aren't the ones fulfilling the law...JESUS is the one fulfilling the law on OUR behalf.
No condemnation results here because Jesus is our redeemer. By His life we complete the law, by His death we are forgiven, by His resurrection we are justified to be called sons and daughters of the Living God, because in His hands He took with Him the keys of death and Hades. The prisoners are set free, which in the old covenant, it only brought bondage, not because the law was bad, but because we are sinners. So if the law can only bind us because it condemns the sinful nature in us, by turning BACK to that after accepting Jesus' atonement for us, that is the gift of God, salvation itself, we're essentially asking to be condemned all over again and have fallen from Grace because we're now trying to earn our righteousness, when in that gift of salvation we are made righteous in Christ.

ozell · Nov 24, 2009

And yet, you are missing the main point of Jesus teaching to the young ruler. The young ruler had it all except faith in Jesus Christ. The young ruler trusted himself and his possessions instead of trusting in the Lord. Jesus told him to sell all of his possessions and follow Him, do you know why?

and yet THE LORD SAID and please don't ignore the words of JESUS

Mt 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17: And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18: He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19: Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Also, notice which commandments Jesus told the young ruler to follow. Each one of them Jesus commanded in Matthew 5-7. These are part of the new covenant. The clue? Is thou shall love thy neighbor as yourself part of the commandments listed in the tablets?

are they the commandments found in exodus?

Do you know what the result of the sacrifice of the cross is? Tell you what, look at the following verses and explain which sins are "remitted" and for how long. These verses tell you exactly what a person needs for justification and it makes it clear that following the law is not it.

Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[h] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

the blood
Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

The Blood covered our past sins when we came to Jesus for repentance

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

what about the sins we commit after we come under the blood?

Tell me, what is justification? How is a person justified? What is propitation?

read above!! I've answered this all over my post.

PS. I will not answer the other posts that you made to me because my response would be the same

.

believe me I really understand!!!!

ozell · Nov 24, 2009

SoundCard;53576658]From my understanding, what it all really comes down to is the spirit of the rationale behind it. Don't vs. Don't want to.

yes! we teach our children, we tell our employees , the world is run by rules. ecept when we become christians and go to church and read God's word then we throw his rules out!

Living by the law can betray the heart of hte believer because it's essentially, a series of 'do nots'. Living by the Spirit is more lively as it is a series of 'don't want to's'.

Paul told us that we battle in our minds

yes!

living by the spirit is the word of God.

soundcard put thiis verse to what you just said here above and below

Jn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Do not kill goes to -> I love you too much to want to hurt you.
Don't commit adultery -> I love you too much to want to be with anyone else.
Do not steal -> I love you too much to try and hurt you by taking your hard earned possessions.
Do not covet -> I love you too much to let something as petty as stuff get between us.
Honor thy Mother and Father -> I love my parents too much to be disobey them, etc, etc, etc. Do you see the point here? When you love someone you won't want to harm them, but see them prosper, the commandments were implemented to condemn sin because people were doing what they ought not to be doing, so they had to be flat out told 'DO NOT DO THESE THINGS FOR THESE ARE THE WAY OF DEATH'.

it is God's way of showing man the path to righteousness!
notice I did not say man way. GOD'S WAY!

In Jesus Christ, we are brought alive to something where we are instead changed at the heart itself and told 'LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS YOU LOVE YOURSELF' that is, take care of one another, build up one another, edify one another, do not harm one another, love God more than your things, let your nature become like His nature.

This is always qouted Soundcard
but the person or preacher NEVER tell you HOW to love thy neighbour
should I walk around always saying I love you neighbour, yet as soon as he turn his back I'm backbiting him.

Really, the bar is set MUCH higher in the New Covenant than it is in the Old, but we have Jesus Christ there to rest upon, in the Old Covenant you didn't have that assurance... animals that touched the sacred mountain site were to be stoned to death, yet in the new, you can now freely approach the throne of grace itself with confidence? Why is that? Christ's atonement is complete. There is no need for further sacrifice - there's no more place for condemnation of sin.

FINALLY a correct answer, It is harder now under the New Covenant.
Because A God came down to die for our sins. ONLY ONCE!

under the old covenant a person who broke the law could alswys get another bull to sacrifice for the same sin. If I had 10 bulls I could sin 10 times! which is wilfully sinning.

under the New the blood of Jesus

Paul said Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

I cannot go out here and commit 10 adulteries under the blood of Jesus.

can I ?

Law requires sacrifices to cover sin. Sin offerings are repeated due to violations of the law.
Jesus' work on the Cross is our final sin offering -> the law is no longer trespassed because we aren't the ones fulfilling the law...JESUS is the one fulfilling the law on OUR behalf.

WHAT LAW?

sacrifice or the commandments?

No condemnation results here because Jesus is our redeemer. By His life we complete the law, by His death we are forgiven, by His resurrection we are justified to be called sons and daughters of the Living God, because in His hands He took with Him the keys of death and Hades. The prisoners are set free, which in the old covenant, it only brought bondage, not because the law was bad, but because we are sinners.

are you condemn for keeping the commandments or the law of animal sacrifice?

Souncard the blood of bulls and goats could never take away sin. so who was condemned?

are we prisoners of the commandments?

or the old covenant which we the blood of bulls and goats.

now if the blood of animal could never take awy sin, what bondage or prisoners where the people under before Jesus came?

I know you know now confess it!!!!

So if the law can only bind us because it condemns the sinful nature in us, by turning BACK to that after accepting Jesus' atonement for us, that is the gift of God, salvation itself, we're essentially asking to be condemned all over again and have fallen from Grace because we're now trying to earn our righteousness, when in that gift of salvation we are made righteous in Christ.

[/QUOTE]

if we remain under the blood of Jesus. what if we turn back the bible speak on that?

the sins that are past are remmitted when we come under the blood

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God

but if you sin WILFULLY after you come under the knowledge of the truth

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

then what?

nChrist · Nov 24, 2009

ozell said:
believe me I really understand!!!!

No Ozell, it doesn't appear that you understand at all, even with all of the Scripture that people have given you describing the difference between the Old and the New Covenant. It would appear that you'd rather dance with Moses than yield to the Righteousness of Christ.

Study this:

2 Corinthians 3:1-18 KJV 1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you? 2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: 3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. 4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. 10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. 12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: 13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Now Here:

Romans 10:1-5 KJV Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Use the cross-references and comparisons in your Bible. Try to determine the difference between Law and Grace - and before the Cross and after the Cross. Here's a Hint: you're trying to use the letter of the Law like the Pharisees. Walking in the Spirit with Christ is a beautiful thing. Jesus Christ is Liberty and Freedom - not bondage. Find the difference between the letter and the Spirit, and you'll have a good start. Next: See Galatians 2 and Galatians 4.

Good News! -- The Holy Bible is the WORD OF GOD! -- God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit - The Creator Of All Things! -- "GOD'S GRACE" and "OUR WORKS" -- Thanksgiving Proclamations ( 1623 to 1863 ) -- Thanksgiving Proclamations ( 1961 to 2001 ) -- JESUS CHRIST - VERY GOD - LORD - SAVIOUR - MESSIAH - KING

Almighty's humble servant · Nov 24, 2009

ozell said:
what is the bondage of the law?

what law am I trying to convince people to go back to?

is it wrong to tell people to keep God's law, lets read what Paul said long after Jesus died and rose

Rom 13v 8: Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9: For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill
Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10: Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Do you have a problem with me for telling the people to follow these laws of God?

Paul just told you to and why don't you criticize his writings?

do you keep these or are they a bondage to you?

Peace and blessings brothers and sisters,

Excellent take Ozell!
There are to many people who are headed down the broader path of destruction. Many believe in this blanket of grace. That the commandments no longer apply. Like you have been stating, we must continue to keep His commandments, but instead of sacrificing to the ALmighty at temple, for remission, we are to simply ask for forgiveness in Jesus name.
We must still ask for forgiveness for each infraction thereof, and all will be judged according to his deeds verses his unabsolved sin by ALmighty's perfect scales.

Sons and daughters bless the Lord,
Praise and exalt Him above all forever!

SoundCard · Nov 24, 2009

ozell said:
yes! we teach our children, we tell our employees , the world is run by rules. ecept when we become christians and go to church and read God's word then we throw his rules out!

Paul told us that we battle in our minds

yes!

living by the spirit is the word of God.

soundcard put thiis verse to what you just said here above and below

Jn 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

it is God's way of showing man the path to righteousness!
notice I did not say man way. GOD'S WAY!

This is always qouted Soundcard
but the person or preacher NEVER tell you HOW to love thy neighbour
should I walk around always saying I love you neighbour, yet as soon as he turn his back I'm backbiting him.

Truth be told, I'm still learning this. I had a few roadblocks in my way before I could start seeing the truth, I admit I was blinded by past hurt and was reluctant to let it go, but praise be to our Lord Jesus He opened my eyes to it and I'm now moving past them.

1 Corinthians 13:4-7 NIV
4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

Paul gives us an understanding of the nature of love. Just so, he also gives us an understanding of the nature of sin.

Colossians 3:5-10 NIV
5Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[b] 7You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

Just for the record here, I don't think anyone here is trying to justify sin. I know I'm not. It's an evil, evil wretched thing.

FINALLY a correct answer, It is harder now under the New Covenant.
Because A God came down to die for our sins. ONLY ONCE!

under the old covenant a person who broke the law could alswys get another bull to sacrifice for the same sin. If I had 10 bulls I could sin 10 times! which is wilfully sinning.

under the New the blood of Jesus

Paul said Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

I cannot go out here and commit 10 adulteries under the blood of Jesus.

can I ?

Though, this sets an interesting conundrum. We're flat out told something about the blood of bulls and such. It's ironic, that the answer lies in Hebrews 10 as well.

Hebrews 10:1-4 NIV
1The law is only a shadow of the good things that are comingnot the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. 2If it could, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. 3But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins, 4because it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

The blood spilled by them covered the sins, but it did not take them away, only one could do that, and that is Christ.

WHAT LAW?

sacrifice or the commandments?

are you condemn for keeping the commandments or the law of animal sacrifice?

Souncard the blood of bulls and goats could never take away sin. so who was condemned?

are we prisoners of the commandments?

or the old covenant which we the blood of bulls and goats.

now if the blood of animal could never take awy sin, what bondage or prisoners where the people under before Jesus came?

I know you know now confess it!!!!

This is going to be difficult for you to understand, because as to now you have yet to realize this. So let me tell you plainly.

Jesus Christ Himself is our fulfillment of the law, because, we join not ONLY in His death, we also join with Him in His life!

He spent some 33 odd years doing what exactly? LIVING SINLESSLY under that which condemns sin! That's the good news here! All the requirements that we could never meet, all the laws we could not fulfill, all the statutes that required obedience, HE could obey! HE alone could do this! It's why HE is our rock and our salvation! In HIM is the fulfillment of it, because HE alone could live it! We who are sinners are condemned by that which condemns sin, and what condemns sin? The law and the commandments!!

Matthew 5:17-20 NIV
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

The only one who could do the works of the law and still be considered righteous was He who was, is, and will be righteousness itself, the living God, Jesus Christ!

Essentially, the 10 commandments were the rules of love explained to an unrighteous and unbelieving Israel.

Do not covet, do not steal, do not lie, do not murder, do not commit idolatry, do not create idols, do not blaspheme, keep the Sabbath holy, honor thy mother and father, ALL are summed up in one word!

Love.

Romans 13:8-10 NIV
8Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. 9The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet,"[a] and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself."[b] 10Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

[/quote]

if we remain under the blood of Jesus. what if we turn back the bible speak on that?

the sins that are past are remmitted when we come under the blood

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God

but if you sin WILFULLY after you come under the knowledge of the truth

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

then what?

Ah, we have good news then from our brother in Christ, John.

1 John 1:8-10 NIV
8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives.

1 John 2:1-2 NIV
1My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defenseJesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for[a] the sins of the whole world.

However, yes, we should obey His commands, but you must understand, I really, really must emphasize, the commands of the NEW COVENANT. They contain the law and the prophets in the commands to love your neighbor, to love God more than anything else in your life. Every action in your life will stem forth from that.

The point of this whole debate, I think I finally understand is... if one goes back to the old covenant to 'save them', they're saying that love is not enough for them, when God Himself is described as BEING love. To walk out on the New Covenant is to fall from grace, because only IN grace can one truly love God, only in faith can one love God, only in faith can one PLEASE God. Our works, our deeds, they were prepared for us in advance! And think about this, honestly, think, how different is each individual? Not to say that God's character isn't consistent, but does not each have their own gifts, talents, etc? Who's to say WHAT that work will be? What will the deed be which pleases God today? What is the work set out for you by the Father Himself? Who can tell us this but His Spirit? To turn your back on love, by saying it isn't enough, is to have no place in our hearts for His Spirit, and He is grieved I dare say. We have scripture which flat out tells you the law cannot save you, that it clearly condemns you, and only, ONLY, ONLY in Jesus Christ do we find atonement, sanctity, truth, righteousness, and that which consumes and blossoms, and originates, and breathes life into all the former, love. Only in God's beloved and Holy Son, Jesus Christ, is the love of God made fully manifest.

Where there is commandment, there is condemnation. Where there is condemnation, there is fear, where there is fear, there is no place for love. For as it says:

1 John 4:18 NIV
18There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

Love perfects, love sanctifies, and it was love that saved me. It was love that God showed to His people on that cross, it was Love that lead Him to that cross, it was love that resurrected Him that we might be justified, it is THE LOVE OF GOD HIMSELF that I should be made righteous by His son's sacrifice, and I can only pray I can learn to love as Jesus did, for I myself am a sinner, and my nature is contrary to that of love. It seeks only for itself, not for its neighbor, but our Lord gave us a new spirit that we too might partake in that Heavenly love that our Father showed to us, that we might become the family He desires. Let His love be known to all of us, that we too may be made perfect in it.

God bless.

NatalieJan777 · Nov 24, 2009

SoundCard said:
To walk out on the New Covenant is to fall from grace

I personally take offence to this statement. Doing the will of GOD does not make anyone fall from HIS grace. I am here to testify to you that you can please GOD by doing HIS will and still be under the grace of the blood of the new covenant by Faith in Christ Jesus.

This is an obsurd accusation. All of GOD's commandments and laws are righteous and good, doing them does not lessen Christ's righteousness. GOD loved Jesus and was well pleased with HIM because HE fullfilled it all. The HOLY SPIRIT will lead you to this same righteousness if you yeild to it, will you then be perfect as Jesus was? Would you then be Jesus? NO! but you are still a child of GOD by doing HIS will and believing that HE sent HIS son to attone for the sins of all the world.

This is like saying I am not satans child even though I do all the evil he does. It is obsurd.

what Law did Jesus replace?

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