what Law did Jesus replace?

Zeena · Jan 29, 2010

Light hearted said:
Your finding it proper for the animal sacrifice to return is an act of sight, not Faith, righeousness comes from Faith.

O wow, I had no idea he was espousing this!

What would be the purpose of bloody sacrifices after the Lamb of God has been slain as the atonement for sin?

ozell · Jan 30, 2010

Galatians 2:21;54046576]Wow ozell, you made quite a few accusations. Am I now your enemy for telling you the truth? You brought up the verse "So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, he that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone." John 8:7. Sounds to me like you are "casting stones" at me for sinning, when you are surely in sin yourself.

G

what is your point?

I'm not casting stones, Niether are you my enemy, I don't know you!

can you cast a stone at a sinner? even thought you are under grace.

I'm under grace and I can't cast a stone at a sinner.

Go back and read my post and get some understanding.

answer the topic

what law did Jesus replaced?

I told you that when I tried to follow the law, and not by the grace of God, that I kept falling short... and I stand by what I said. When you try to follow the Law without the motive of the grace of God, it goes against your natural desire to sin, and the sin nature seems to take over.

why would you try to follow God's law without his Grace?
Its obvious you lacked understanding if you did this. You stand by what you said because it was you who lacked understanding .

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

what law are we not under even though we are under Grace?

keep in mind G we both are under grace and we still cannot cast a stone at a sinner?

Lets take a look at Romans 7, a time when Paul is struggling, years after becoming a Christian:
7What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, Do not covet.b
8But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from law, sin is dead.
9Once I was alive apart from law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.
10I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.
11For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death.
12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.
15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
16And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.
17As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
18I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
19For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to dothis I keep on doing.
20Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me.
22For in my inner being I delight in Gods law;
23but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.
24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?
25Thanks be to Godthrough Jesus Christ our Lord!

Sounds like Paul went through the same thing I did. I tried following the Law, bet kept going back to sin because my sin nature was still in control.
But when we DIE to our old self, and be crucified with Christ, then our spirit now has control over the sin nature. Not that we wont continue to sin, but that we will actually WANT to do what's right for no other reason than that it is the will of God.

G why are you making this more complicated that it is, we are agreeing,Go back and read what you said.

Not that we wont continue to sin,

these are your words above.

Even though we are under God's grace we will sin, the problem is that we try not to sin wilfully this is what Paul speaks of.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

yet we also have when a person sin unknowingly which the bible speaks
of sinning though ignorance

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

but that we will actually WANT to do what's right for no other reason than that it is the will of God.

Jesus will is for us to always do RIGHT.

and if we fail, and we will have times that we fail G

we are told this

First we get up

Prov 24:16 For a just man falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.

then we take it to our ADVOCATE JESUS

1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

then get back on that strait and narrow path.

Mt 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Now what law was replaced?

YOU SAID

Not that we wont continue to sin,

sin is the transgression of the law.

sin is still here so the commandments are still here

again you quoted

7What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, Do not covet.b

sin acknowedges the law.

Now what law was replaced?

ozell · Jan 30, 2010

Zeena said:
O wow, I had no idea he was espousing this!

What would be the purpose of bloody sacrifices after the Lamb of God has been slain as the atonement for sin?

zeena

How dare you not read what I post!

you had no idea because I'm not.

Go back and read my Post.

if you follow prophecy you would know that the Jews are planning to build a temple and reinstitute animal sacrifce.

but if you don't follow prophecy of course you would not have a idea!

ozell · Jan 30, 2010

Galatians 2:21 said:
The original language that the New Testament was written in was Greek. If the Bible was written in English, there would only be one version. If one is to truly understand what the author is saying, there is nothing clearer than the original.

Jesus said

Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

is english another tongue other than hebrew?

Do we have english speaking people.

God spoke to the english speaking people also!!!

ozell · Jan 30, 2010

Light hearted;54048648]I have to admit I wanted to use a stronger more vulger word than "damn". but we are on a public site and I didn't want to offend anyone. Please substitude a stronger word to make it where I sinned with a word.

I get your point

Let's focus on the adultery topic since we are there already. As we all know, David was a man after God's heart. You know the story, he commited adultrey, of which produced a child. Now we can go further yet. He even schemed to kill the husband of the woman he commited adultrey with, and succeeded.

2 Samuel 12:13 Nathan replied "the Lord has taken away your sin". Now God did take the live of the son of which the adultery produced. Question...was the son's life taken as a sacrifice to cover the sin? If so, how much more is the life/ sacrifice of Jesus Christ to cover your sins?

That child did not anything so why should he pay for David sins?
David was punished heavily for his sins! He did not get away he go by and the Lord punished him!

understand the bible! It is written, this is what you are saying happened to the child.

Ezek 18v19: Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.

Guess what LH, that son will be in the kingdom of God, he wills urely live!

20: The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

We can go to the NT John 8. Even in the act of adultery, the Law said she is to die, death, stoned, on the spot, without question. This is the perfect example of Jeses and the mediator that he is between God and the believer. We all deserve death, thank God for Jesus who understands temptation and the pitfalls we encounter. Next question... The law clearly states she was to be stoned, Jesus interviened and changed the due process. Now, did Jesus "replece the Law", or did he alter the punishment?

He took the stoning from the hands of man sinners, read it again!
he neither altered the punishment, the wages of sin is death, are we not all sinners? is the grave yard full of dead folks, YES!

What was altered? was it replaced?

Jesus was not on the cross when he took the stoning from man?

you are answering one of my questions I posed LH

who is without sin cast the first stone? Jesus changed this not upon his death and resurrection, but on his time on earth. so we have to eliminate this as being done away with. we as sinners cannot go out and kill people who sin. saying all this lets me know that sin is still here and since sin is the acknowledgement of the law, the law is still here.

Next.... 1 Cor 5. Even worse that your adultery scenerio listed above, this man is having sex with his step-mother, and he seems proud of it. Paul says to evict him from the church to endure embarrassment and ridicule in hopes to bring repentance and his Spirit saved on the day of the Lord.

Each situation required death, immediatly, according to the law, yet each situation did not bring immediate death.

LH you are not understanding your bible

he that is without sin cast the first stone.

Jesus did not say ye that is are love cast the first stone.

who's talking about immediate death, again we are on 2 different understanding

are you aware of the second death. we all die the first death!

Ozell, we are to love the sinner, hate the sin. Surely you can see from Moses to Jesus time there was a Grace factor that came to be. When reading the Bible I'm sure you see this.

LH read me where we are to love the sinner and hate the sin, is this in the bible. Grace was their in Moses times because it was their in Noah time.

according to you we are to let loose all the prisoners who have raped, killed, molested etc, because we love them but hate the sin that they committed.

LH you are agrreeing with me, sin is still here today, meaning that the commandments are still here today, so Jesus cannot have replaced the commandments upon his death and resurrection.

So in your adultery question, I do not condem you, it is not for me to do. I would pray the Holy Spirit would work inside you til you realize you have put your sin before God.

all sin are before God, mine is not adultery thank God,

lets read

Rv 20v12: And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13: And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14: And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15: And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

and

Eccl 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14: For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

the commandments are not done away with or have been replaced.

ozell · Jan 30, 2010

Light hearted said:
Hmmm, I do like the analogy, just having Jesus by her side even before the cross he saved her.

Now of course, this was physical demonstration of what now happens to, and for us when Jesus is with us in Spirit. Even in our transgressions he is faithful to save.

It seems you are trying to make a big point about the replacement of the sacrifice law, I don't think anyone here has actually disputed the changing of the sacrifice procedure. I do know that where the animals had to be repeatadly done, Jesus sacrifice was once and done. Not that he wiped away the Laws/Commandments, but that he paid the price for breaking the Laws. He fulfilled them, once something is fulfilled, there is no more filling to be done.

Back to the Temple, there Temples being made everyday. Once again, the original Temples were a physical building that God's Spirit resided. Today those of us who are Born again are now God's Temple. God's Spirit now resides within us, we are God's temple.

I bring this up for if we turn to 2 Corinthians 4:18, for what is seen is "temporary", what is unseen is "Eternal".

Faith is believing in something unseen. 2 Cor. 5:7 we live by Faith not sight.

Your finding it proper for the animal sacrifice to return is an act of sight, not Faith, righeousness comes from Faith.

The Lord said and our faith don't come close

Jesus said

Mt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

actually LH

your faith and mine is not as strong as Paul's

and Paul said

2Thes 2:
1: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2: That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

John said

Rv 11v1: And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2: But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3: And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

I have faith in God and his word, he had this written so not only do I BELIEVE this I KNOW that it will happen.

whether i like it or not.

learn something here.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Zeena · Jan 30, 2010

ozell said:
zeena

How dare you not read what I post!

LOL!

AS IF I'm obliged to you!
I owe you NOTHING but LOVE!
I do NOT owe you the courtesy of reading every word of every disertation you espuse! ROFL!
Though, I am interested if you espuse such a thing as animal sacrifices for sin, seeing Jesus is the atonement for such, once for all.

ozell said:
you had no idea because I'm not.

Go back and read my Post.

If you're not then why are you saying the following?

ozell said:
if you follow prophecy you would know that the Jews are planning to build a temple and reinstitute animal sacrifce.

but if you don't follow prophecy of course you would not have a idea!

In which post did you originally assert this?

Zeena · Jan 30, 2010

ozell said:
The Lord said and our faith don't come close

Jesus said

Mt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

actually LH

your faith and mine is not as strong as Paul's

and Paul said

2Thes 2:
1: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2: That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3: Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

John said

Rv 11v1: And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2: But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3: And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

I have faith in God and his word, he had this written so not only do I BELIEVE this I KNOW that it will happen.

whether i like it or not.

learn something here.

Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

All this already happened ozell.

They were sacrificing animals all over again, even though Christ was raised from the dead.

the 'temple' was destroyed in 70 A.D.

Duckybill · Jan 30, 2010

Romans 10:4 (NKJV)
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

Light hearted · Jan 30, 2010

ozell said:
I get your point

That child did not anything so why should he pay for David sins?
David was punished heavily for his sins! He did not get away he go by and the Lord punished him!

understand the bible! It is written, this is what you are saying happened to the child.

Ezek 18v19: Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.

Guess what LH, that son will be in the kingdom of God, he wills urely live!

20: The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Your bringing Ez 18 into the picture is appriciated, do to this verse it takes away the punishment of taking the son's live as due payment for David's sins.

Or does it. Ezekiel does alot of prophecying, I believe he was speaking to the people held in captivity of what to look forward to the future if they follow God.

Commandment 4

Exodus 20:5-6

5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Now here it shows that the children will do some paying for the parents iniquity. If we get technical David would fall under verse 6, he did love the Lord, yet, as you seem so focused on, he did break not one, but, wait, I might have to take off a sock to count them all. (Just Kidding). Anyway, I see at least 3 or 4 commandments broken here.

During the time frame of David the 4th commandment would be in effect, which would send iniquity to the son.

If you could explain why the Lord struck the son with an illness that killed him, I'm all for it.

Next... you asked the question "The child did nothing, why should he pay for David's sins.

Ozell, I ask you start to pull away from the Laws, man's work, and start looking more at Grace, Jesus work.

The child did nothing... David's child, born from sin, a broken commandment, or 4, could have been enough to atone for one man's sins.
How much more atoning can the sacrifice of the Son of God, of whom was born from the impregnation of the Holy Spirit, in the human body of a virgin. A Son who never sinned, was persecuted, beaten, humiliated, ect. Hmmm, good question, why did the Child of God who did nothing, yet his death paid for the sins of the believers.

Sacrifice... to give up something precious to you. Thank God for his one begotten Son.

Zeena · Jan 30, 2010

Micah 6:7
Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

.

Light hearted · Jan 30, 2010

ozell said:
read what I post and quit adding none sense, who said that Jesus will leave you at your first sin?

Impossible!

Jesus said

now after you have received the knowledge of the truth, meaning you UNDERSTAND God's word, it says

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

what is a willful sin?

so if I commit adultery on my wife knowing that it is a sin, and continue to do so, because I continue to do so and I know the truth that it is wrong

should God forgive me?

Let's dig into this abit...Do you truely believe that after one has been told the knowledge of truth, that one is expected to never wilfully sin again. By posting Hebrews 10:26 you are leaning towards this view.

For if we willfully sin after that we have received the knowledge of truth. Ozell, that leaves only one wilfull sin after receiving the knowledge of truth. In your view that's it, done deal, doomed deal.

Ok, now in order for me to know my sin, I need to know all 600 laws, or how ever many there are. Once I know "all" the laws, then if i sin, I would have sinned willingly, done deal, doomed deal. My knowledge brings death.

Now on the flip side, my best chance is to know absolutly no laws what so ever, this would give me a better chance of not commiting a willful sin. If I don't know it was unlawfull, I didn't sin, now my ignorance saves me.

Now this goes against your request to "know" and read the Bible to help bring salvation. In Hebrews 10, I'd be better off knowing none of the Bible.

I just don't see how your interpertation comes full circle.

You asked if, God would forgive you of adultery? I gave a list of adultery situations, good commentary, let's go another direction. You brought up Ez 18:19 about sons and parents iniquities.

Good chapter and verse, now lets move down to Ez 18:27-28...27Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

Looks like you were close to your own answer, looks like God and his mercy will grant you time to turn away from your wickedness to save your soul. Question is, how long and how many times can you commit adultery? According to Heb 10. you inturpret death, no more sacifice since it was wilfull. Ez 18 states differently. Should we go deeper into Heb 10?

Light hearted · Jan 30, 2010

ozell said:
The Lord said and our faith don't come close

actually LH

your faith and mine is not as strong as Paul's

and Paul said

I'm not sure were the comment about "our faith don't come close" is concerning. Then the statment of "your faith and mine is not as strong as pauls".

I'm going to bring a verse...3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

4For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
5So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. 6Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

I take this as meaning God deals to every man a measure of faith. Now is this God's measurement? Does he give us what we can handle at the moment?

Verse 6... according to the proportion of faith. It is God who deals out the measure of faith.

So whether my measure of faith is less than Pauls makes no difference to me, it is God portioned.

Duckybill · Jan 31, 2010

Hentenza said:
Even the laws written and engraved in "stone" (the 10 commandments) have passed away being replaced by the new covenant and the commandments of Christ (John 14:15). By God's grace the ministry of death has passed away replaced the ministry of the Spirit.

Even Jeremiah told us that the New Covenant would not be according to the Torah.

Jeremiah 31:31-32 (NKJV)
31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord.

Gregory Thompson · Jan 31, 2010

oneofchrists said:
Jesus Did not replace the Law Do not think I have come to abolish the Law or the prophets; ihave not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Matthew 5:17

Indeed .

Romans 13

9The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 10Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

11And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed.

Zeena · Jan 31, 2010

Just so you understand, these 'commandments' that we died to are the OLD Mosaic commandments.

We are now given the command by Jesus Himself under the NEW Covenant to LOVE God and love one another.
Which is now attainable [!!!], for God has proven His Love for us, in giving His Life for us

Yet, NOW we serve in NEWness of heart and spirit, for we were washed whiter than snow by the Blood of Jesus, once for all.

If we sin [by not walking after love, not following our new hearts, our new spirits, thereby quenching and grieving the Holy Spirit], we confess and are cleansed.

What does it mean to be cleansed except this;
That we should no more be the servant of sin [Romans 6:6], but of God!

Jesus washes our feet and exhorts us that we are 'clean every whitt' [John 13:10], for our feet get dirty walking amongst and witnessing sin in this world.

THIS we ought to do for each other, exhorting each other while it is called today.
Reminding one another that we are whole because of the work of God through Jesus Christ on our behalf.

This is the cleansing of our feet, which we are exhorted to do for one another while walking after the Spirit of Grace in Christ Jesus.

2 Peter 1:2-12
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

.

Light hearted · Jan 31, 2010

ozell said:
LH read me where we are to love the sinner and hate the sin, is this in the bible. Grace was their in Moses times because it was their in Noah time.

I will admit I am not the perfect typer, I have to type fast since I am on dial up and lose my connection often, just the price of living out in the wilderness.

With that said, I may make a clerical error in the future but this time I didn't. When I wrote, love the sinner, hate the sin, I didn't put quotation marks before or after, meaning it wasn't a quote. I didn't put a verse number preceding it neither, so no I didn't refer to it being written in the Bible.

Ozell, now that we are here, would there be something about the phrase that you would dissagree with the phrase? If you agree with it, that's cool, we're all good.

Next subject...Noah's time, I see you insist that Grace was here in Noah's time.

Question...Is it the same Grace as we have today?

Is it as abundant as we have today?

NatalieJan777 · Jan 31, 2010

Light hearted said:
I will admit I am not the perfect typer, I have to type fast since I am on dial up and lose my connection often, just the price of living out in the wilderness.

With that said, I may make a clerical error in the future but this time I didn't. When I wrote, love the sinner, hate the sin, I didn't put quotation marks before or after, meaning it wasn't a quote. I didn't put a verse number preceding it neither, so no I didn't refer to it being written in the Bible.

Ozell, now that we are here, would there be something about the phrase that you would dissagree with the phrase? If you agree with it, that's cool, we're all good.

Next subject...Noah's time, I see you insist that Grace was here in Noah's time.

Question...Is it the same Grace as we have today?

Is it as abundant as we have today?

I am not ozell but I wanted to speak. I believe we are to love the sinner and hate the sin and I will admit that many times this is difficult to do, this is why Jesus has said that the love of many would grow cold due to the abundance of wickedness. Just looking at how things have changed in this world since I was a child till now, wickedness is abounding at exponential rates. Yes! it is most improtant to show love and compassion and mercy even to the wicked.

Secondly I want to refer your question :

Isaiah 54:9 To me this is like the days of Noah, when I swore that the waters of Noah would never again cover the earth. So now I have sworn not to be angry with you, never to rebuke you again.

All who bind themselves to the Lord, to love and serve HIM will be within Zion at that time and all will have this same promise. The thing is, it isn't here yet. The temple of GOD in heaven which is the replica Moses made here on earth will be restored, It will come down from Heaven and be placed on the New Earth that GOD will create. While the bible says "the day of the Lord" it is uncertain to us whether this is in our time frame or HIS.

gideon army · Jan 31, 2010

Zeena said:
If we sin [by not walking after love, not following our new hearts, our new spirits, thereby quenching and grieving the Holy Spirit], we confess and are cleansed.

What does it mean to be cleansed except this;
That we should no more be the servant of sin [Romans 6:6], but of God!

Yo Zeena, CONFESS in the OLD or New Testament be it the Hebrew or Greek Grammatical formation or Meaning/ Intentions isn't to say our sins but to say GOD/Christ's Words that WE have been Cleansed & have been Perfected By the Eternal Washing Power of HIS BLOOD.

Those who advocate that we should confess our sins are the Devils incarnate who doesn't know how to rightly divide the Word of Christo Do you not know that having sins Conscience is putting the Believer into Bondage & negating the FINISHED Word of Christ?

Washing of the Feet is actually the CLEANSING power of HIS word via the Preaching to the Believer that THEY are Righteous regardless of what they do for Righteousness is a GIFT & Slowly but surely the believers will conform into HIS Image by Beholding HIS Image & not looking at Themselves- LIke how the Chrilden of Israel whosoever looked at the Bronze Serpent were healed, those who LOOK at themselves DIE It's a shadow & Christ is the Substance

Many kept quoting Peter Epistle, that's isn't wisdom from GOD as Peter Epistle are written specifically to the JEWS who kept not believing in Christ & HIS Finished works but kept looking at themselves & their own dirty as SOILED Sanitary Napkins self righteousness like so many Christians hence not able to Reign in LIve as KINGS/Priests/ Prophets/ More then Conqueror in Christ

No wonder 90% of Christians in this world are weak/Sick/no Power to REIGN in this LIfe when all are in bondage & not living in the Realm of Christ's Finished works & we have NOTHING to add.

Zeena · Jan 31, 2010

gideon army said:
Yo Zeena, CONFESS in the OLD or New Testament be it the Hebrew or Greek Grammatical formation or Meaning/ Intentions isn't to say our sins but to say GOD/Christ's Words that WE have been Cleansed & have been Perfected By the Eternal Washing Power of HIS BLOOD.

Let's see, shall we?

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

James 5:16
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Not one, but count 'em two NEW Testament verses which deny your thesis of NOT confesssing our shortcomings.

This is NOT to say that the Holy Spirit is going to speak PEACE over you while you continue to walk after your FLESH!-LOL!
The Holy Spirit will WARN you of the DANGER of continuing in sin.

gideon army said:
Those who advocate that we should confess our sins are the Devils incarnate who doesn't know how to rightly divide the Word of Christo

At least I can spell Christ

Besides, who rightly knows besides God the Spirit?

gideon army said:
Do you not know that having sins Conscience is putting the Believer into Bondage & negating the FINISHED Word of Christ?

Yet, denying your sins is the WORST thing you can do to be rid of them.

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

We CONFESS that we sinned by walking after the flesh through unbelief!
We don't WALLOW in our flesh anymore BECAUSE we are not IN the flesh anymore.

I'm guessing you are aware that you have flesh to contend with?
We don't DEAL with the flesh, Christ does, in and through us as we abide by Grace through faith!
BUT, to not ALLOW Him to deal with it is SIN!

YIELD unto God as those brought to LIFE from the DEAD!!!

If you're walking after the flesh you are NOT walking after the Spirit.
No man can serve two masters.. :/

The mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is Life and Peace.

gideon army said:
Washing of the Feet is actually the CLEANSING power of HIS word via the Preaching to the Believer that THEY are Righteous regardless of what they do for Righteousness is a GIFT & Slowly but surely the believers will conform into HIS Image by Beholding HIS Image & not looking at Themselves- LIke how the Chrilden of Israel whosoever looked at the Bronze Serpent were healed, those who LOOK at themselves DIE It's a shadow & Christ is the Substance

No, you are confounded the washing of your FEET by WATER with the washing of your CONSCIENCE by the BLOOD OF CHRIST!

Did I not say you are clean every whitt, only your FEET need washing, even as the LORD JESUS said?
Did He not exhort us to wash each others feet?

gideon army said:
Many kept quoting Peter Epistle, that's isn't wisdom from GOD as Peter Epistle are written specifically to the JEWS who kept not believing in Christ & HIS Finished works but kept looking at themselves & their own dirty as SOILED Sanitary Napkins self righteousness like so many Christians hence not able to Reign in LIve as KINGS/Priests/ Prophets/ More then Conqueror in Christ

AMEN!

YET, SHOULD we walk after the flesh, we need to confess that, and be DONE with it, turning BACK to Jesus to CONTINUE receiving His Image, even the END, the Salvation of our SOULS!!!

1 John 1:5-7
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

The mind is not 'usually' instantly renewed you know!
Most of the time sanctification is a PROCESS whereby we are putting OFF the deeds of the flesh and putting ON Christ.
ANYTHING that is not of God HAS to go!
OUT with the old IN with the NEW, and His Mercies are new EVERY morning!

There's nothing wrong with that process.
God allows it for His Glory!

gideon army said:
No wonder 90% of Christians in this world are weak/Sick/no Power to REIGN in this LIfe when all are in bondage & not living in the Realm of Christ's Finished works & we have NOTHING to add.

They're weak, sick and lack the Power of the indwelling Christ because He is NOT infilling them by Grace, because they are not walking by FAITH!

If a man believe not, should God reckon his UNBELIEF as righteousness too?!?

I know GRACE when I hear it, and I also know Grace is NO LICENSE to sin!

what Law did Jesus replace?

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