What Is Wrong With Eastern Orthodoxy?

Akathist · Sep 24, 2006

AnomalousSilence said:
Should evening prayer (for example) last as long as the incense? Those suckers last a while!

We don't use those sticks. I use tiny pieces and usually have to add more before the prayers are over.

Shubunkin · Sep 24, 2006

I wish I could use a little incense in the house, but my family would pitch a fit. They are Lutherans. Candles would be fine, though.

Happy Orthodox · Sep 24, 2006

Anonykat said:
Hey AS,

I like your style. You share your opinion when it disagrees, but are perfectly tactful and decent about it.

As far as hell... it's a terrible place where those who hate God will suffer. That we all know. We don't want to go there. There is no disagreement. As far as that stupid thread arguing about juridical vs. therapeutic views, who cares? We're just a bunch of dorks on the internet, aint none of us infallible, aint none of us even truly a saint yet. Yes, there are quotes from early church fathers that seem to support opposing views, that some people have attacked each other with. The ECF's were not infallible either. My former priest used to say, "85% of the saints are right 85% of the time." My current priest explained it to me in such a way that it really made sense... that the views can work together, not oppose each other. God is not so po'd and waiting to fry us, and He even loves those in hell, because His love is everywhere. Yet the Scriptures make it clear too, that justice is involved. I can't explain it as well as my priest did, but I'm content that both views are valid. We can only understand so much - the rest is mystery. I mean, who can really understand the things of God, the things of eternity?

As far as what is wrong with EO- nothing wrong with Christ's Church. Lots of stuff wrong with us sinners who comprise it.

LK

You can't imagine how much you helped me with your post, Anonykat! Who would think, I'm a 3,5 y.o. Orthodox Christian, theologically (self)educated convert, read quite a bit, and still did not have the answer to such important question! That just sounds so ... um... Orthodox! How didn't I think of that before!? Thank you so much!
Lord have mercy on me, a worthless sinner!

irishseventysix · Sep 25, 2006

I have also heard that incense is symbolic of sacrifice. It has to break down and surrender to the fire for it to give off scent. It's a metaphor for how we should be...that is, giving ourselves up (dying to ourselves) to be consumed by Him, the all-consuming Fire that we may be a pleasing, sweet-smelling aroma to Him.

That's just one interpretation. Add it to the pile.

Melethiel · Sep 25, 2006

cygne said:
I wish I could use a little incense in the house, but my family would pitch a fit. They are Lutherans. Candles would be fine, though.

I'm Lutheran, and love incense.

Michael G · Sep 25, 2006

irishseventysix said:
I have also heard that incense is symbolic of sacrifice. It has to break down and surrender to the fire for it to give off scent. It's a metaphor for how we should be...that is, giving ourselves up (dying to ourselves) to be consumed by Him, the all-consuming Fire that we may be a pleasing, sweet-smelling aroma to Him.

That's just one interpretation. Add it to the pile.

Incense is used in the OT as a sacrifice in many, many places.

Ilian · Sep 25, 2006

In my estimation, there are two major problems.

The first is a tendency to think and act as a collection of national churches and not as a church made up of various nationalities. The difference is subtle, but important.

The second is related, but it is a tendency to decentralization. The effects of this are quite apparent and over time may lead to radical divisions within the church (if not checked).

DavidBryan · Sep 25, 2006

There is a series of posts on this blog that go into great detail about some of the main problems the author has with the Church (you can search for the word überfromm in the search function at the top of the blog, or just scroll down until you see the word in the title of a post). His posts are detailed and bring up some great points in general, but they're inaccurate in some of the specific examples he gives.

His more recent posts are apologias for the Faith and are beautiful, imo.

Oblio · Sep 25, 2006

In light of the one post I skimmed, and my recent thoughts, I would add that the lack of EO parishes in the West, especially the US, is something that is wrong.

On a positive note: Our little mission/parish, deep in Baptist held and controlled territory, had 40+ in attendance yesterday. When my wife and I first visited 4 years ago, 12 would be a good turnout.

ClementofRome · Sep 25, 2006

Oblio said:
In light of the one post I skimmed, and my recent thoughts, I would add that the lack of EO parishes in the West, especially the US, is something that is wrong.

On a positive note: Our little mission/parish, deep in Baptist held and controlled territory, had 40+ in attendance yesterday. When my wife and I first visited 4 years ago, 12 would be a good turnout.

I too live in a heavily Baptist area (western NC) and I was just thinking the exact same thought yesterday afternoon Oblio. Driving from a friends farm back toward my house (about a 40 mile drive) I passed dozens and dozens of Baptist churches and I thought to myself, there is not an EO church even close to these people.....how can these rural people even begin to find the truth if they were motivated to seek it? I know that they could do the 45 minute drive into town and would have a choice of 3, but for rural farm folk, that would be considered out of the question.

Sad, really.

Shubunkin · Sep 25, 2006

Oblio said:
In light of the one post I skimmed, and my recent thoughts, I would add that the lack of EO parishes in the West, especially the US, is something that is wrong.

On a positive note: Our little mission/parish, deep in Baptist held and controlled territory, had 40+ in attendance yesterday. When my wife and I first visited 4 years ago, 12 would be a good turnout.

I agree there is not enough EO churches here. They are really hard to find, sometimes, and it is amazing how people will drive for hours to go to a DL service.

AureateDawn · Sep 25, 2006

Shees, 40ish?? My Baptist church has 100-150, and I consider that small. Anywhere between 100 and 200 is just the right amount of people, IMHO. I can only hope my future church (the only one within any relevant distance of where I live), St. Anne Orthodox, (http://www.stanneorthodoxchurch.org/), has at least 100.

DavidBryan · Sep 25, 2006

I rejoiced when I found out that Dripping Springs, TX has an Antiochian parish (that is apparently doing fairly well, to boot!).

I won't consider evangelism in the States to be where it should be until we've made some real inroads into smalltown America. I'm very fascinated to see what "smalltown Orthodox" would be like.

Akathist · Sep 25, 2006

My l little parish used to be larger then the Priest retired or moved (not sure which) and they went too long without a Priest. By the time a Priest was found, the parish was down to 10 or so people and even they were not "regulars". (They had a visiting Priest who came once or twice a month and reader services the rest of the time.) Now we have really grown with our new Priest.

Therefore, I conclude that we really need more Priests!

More Priests could lead to more mission churches.

AureateDawn · Sep 25, 2006

Xenia Rose said:
Therefore, I conclude that we really need more Priests!

More Priests could lead to more mission churches.

Well, it was one of my dreams to be a pastor. Now that I am a future Orthodox, I'd love being a priest. Not saying I will, but it'd be great. I'm nowhere near holy enough!

Oblio · Sep 25, 2006

Anywhere between 100 and 200 is just the right amount of people, IMHO.

I agree. Once there is a line item in the budget for name tags, it is time for a new mission

Akathist · Sep 25, 2006

AnomalousSilence said:
Well, it was one of my dreams to be a pastor. Now that I am a future Orthodox, I'd love being a priest. Not saying I will, but it'd be great. I'm nowhere near holy enough!

My Bishop spoke about this issue last year. His advice was first find yourself a good wife. Then consider seminary. He says it makes seminary and getting into the work of being a Priest afterward easier if you are not trying to work through the first few years of marriage on top of that.

AureateDawn · Sep 25, 2006

What is the difference between a Bishop and a Priest?

silouanathonite · Sep 25, 2006

AnomalousSilence said:
Well, it was one of my dreams to be a pastor. Now that I am a future Orthodox, I'd love being a priest. Not saying I will, but it'd be great. I'm nowhere near holy enough!

Whenever you get a chance, ask a priest if before he was ordained, he thought he was holy enough to become a priest.

Akathist · Sep 25, 2006

To put it in simple terms, my Priest is over our parish, the Bishop is over the region (in this case the MidWest area of the OCA). The Metropolitan is over all of the OCA.

BTW, Bishops and up, can not have married. (though maybe they can be widowers, I'm not really sure about that though.)

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