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but wait wait says the calvinist man has no free will to choose this day whom you will serve, it makes a mockery out of Gods word and His commands. Jesus on numerous occasions taught and said " if any man is WILLING let him come and follow Me. "It ain't about philosophy. It's about us. As far back as Joshua people were given choices.
Joshua 24:15(15) And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Preach it brother!Gods grace is resistible,
God is resistible as we read in both Testaments below.
Titus 2:11
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,
Since all men are not saved and Gids grace goes out to all men, Gods grace can be resisted.
Acts 7:51
“You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!
God the Holy Spirit can be resisted.
Hebrews 10:29
How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Here we see the Spirit of grace resisted, insulted, rejected and trampled under.
Hebrews 6:4-8
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Here we have those receiving Gods grace sharing in the Holy Spirit of grace reject it. They have fallen away permanently from His grace and can no longer repent.
Psalm 78:17;40
But they continued to sin against Him, rebelling in the desert against the Most High. How often they disobeyed Him in the wilderness and grieved Him in the desert!
Here we see them in the wilderness rejecting Gods grace upon them and grieving God in the process.
conclusion: just 1 passage showing God can be resisted is enough to prove it is true. But as we see there are plenty of passages which prove man can resist God.
The " I " in tulip is false teaching.
Listen to the Calvinist Lorrain Boettner.
Loraine Boettner has stated on p. 59 of his book, The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination,
"prove any one of them true and all of the others will follow as logical and necessary parts of the system. Prove any one of them false and the whole system must be abandoned."
1)I have already proven irresistible grace is not true with Acts 7:51
2)I have proven the atonement is not limited- John 1:20, 3:16, 1 Tim 2:4-6, 2 Pet 3:9 and 1 John 2:2
3)I have proven that election is not unconditional- whosever will may come, that means all, everyone from numerous passages . John 1:12 John 3:16
hope this helps !!!
Most directives in the NT provide evidence that you have a free will. God, our judge, is not a trickster that directs men to do that which is impossible for them. Many of the NT directives require being born-again - but that is attainable as men respond to the Holy Spirit. From Acts 2:38-39, we see that that being born-again and saved is promised to those who repent and are baptized in response to the preaching of the Gospel. The fact that many ignore God is their exercise of free will.The philosophers can debate free will. However, the truth is, here in East of Eden where I live, no man I know has totally free will. Choices are limited, wisdom is scarce and moral choices always involve self as the motive; the preservation, pleasure and dominance of said self. And the self justifies himself, washing himself clean in self justification and self righteous excuses.
I live among the unregenerate degenerate in East of Eden. There is only one way outta here and that is through the Grace of God who in His infinite mercy sent the Lord Jesus Christ to show us the way.
So if you say to me, "man has totally free will" I have to wonder where y'all live.
God directed Moses to do impossible things. By the Power and Will of God Moses did as God commanded. for all things are possible with God.Every directive in the NT is evidence that you have a free will. God, our judge, is not a trickster that directs men to do that which is impossible.
God is not denying grace to any as 1 Timothy 2:4 states that God desires all be saved as one of a few reasons for believers to pray for all. Some out of their "free will" reject the conviction of the Holy Spirit as shown by King Agrippa in Acts 26:28:Yes, it is impossible by our own free will to get out of East of Eden but through the Grace of God, through Jesus Christ, we can.
Amen !!!God is not denying grace to any as 1 Timothy 2:4 states that God desires all be saved as one of a few reasons for believers to pray for all. Some out of their "free will" reject the conviction of the Holy Spirit as shown by King Agrippa in Acts 26:28:
1 Timothy 2:1 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time
Acts 26:28 Then Agrippa said to Paul, “You almost persuade me to become a Christian.”
Can you describe Calvinism in a nutshell?Where are you at with Calvinism? Your post sounds like a repudiation of it.
I didn't know it but my thinking was Calvinist when I was a young man, a result of listening to Baptist and Pentecostal sermons.
Once I learned what Calvinism really means I began looking for Biblical reasons to shift my positions.
It took several years of wrestling with it before I was satisfied with what I was seeing in the gospel.
Relevance to Scripture?Some early church history
Church fathers before Augustine entered the scene …
The first 300 years AD we had a complete agreement among the early church fathers that man has a free will, that we are not “once saved always saved” and that we were not born with some kind of sinful nature which is holding us back to depravity and inability to seek and find God. Are we to believe those years were full of darkness before Augustine entered the scene (354 -430 AD) to finally give us light? The only ones who taught against free will were the gnostics. All of the early church up to the time of Augustine was unanimous in their belief and understanding of the nature of sin being that of choice.
Quotes from old church fathers, supporting Free will and objecting to the Sinful nature
Church fathers before Augustine entered the scene … The first 300 years AD we had a complete agreement among the early church fathers that man has a free will, that we are not “once sav…
bjorkbloggen.com
“Gnostics also believed that mankind was wholly evil and some sects even renounced marriage and procreation. They also believed in two gods, one evil god and one good god. Their teachings are believed to have influenced Saint Augustine in the development of his theology of “total depravity” of mankind and concept of God. For nine years St. Augustine adhered to Manichaeism, a Persian philosophy proclaimed in southern Babylonia (Iraq) that taught a doctrine of “total depravity” and the claim that they were the “elect.” He then turned to skepticism. Next, Augustine was attracted to the philosophy of Neoplatonism. He blended these beliefs with his later Gnostic Christian teachings. His teachings were in turn passed on to John Calvin in his extensive study of Augustine’s writings. It is very easy to follow the trail of John Calvin’s theology from the pagan religion of Mani in Babylonia to his writings in France and Geneva” from source above.
hope this helps !!!
Was the entire church wrong for 400 years +/- until Augustine came along?Relevance to Scripture?
Relevance to historical facts and where calvinism get its foundation.Relevance to Scripture?
Amen get ready for revisionism or evasion or equivocation. Its what is left when the truth hits a calvinist between the eyes. I know from personal experience and dealing with this on carm now on a daily basis when I'm not censored or banned challenging them.Was the entire church wrong for 400 years +/- until Augustine came along?
Good question. . .I agree, it is the conscience, and it governs the human realm (Romans 2:14-15) .Clare, scripture seems to indicate every human being has an inborn sense of right and wrong, good and evil and their response to this is what leads them toward or away from God. What do you think?
FIrst. . .Pelagius' entrance into the picture changes the reference points for the church at that point.Relevance to historical facts and where calvinism get its foundation.
Calvin carried on so much from his day with Catholicism and the rule of the king. Unbiblical ideologies along with being a student of augustine. There is nothing uplifting in his theology, its dark. I know as I've taught it for decades. Those still in it are blind to it until God opens their minds/hearts ( a stronghold )"Facts" are in the eye of the beholder.
That Calvin may deal with the same issues as they, does not mean Calvin's foundation is they.
Please demonstrate, from Calvin himself, what you know about Calvin's foundation.
Pelagius likewise uses "free will" in his dealing with Scripture, but it does not mean "free will" is found in Scripture.
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