What is unseen?

Pixart said:

All the things you express or what things express are defined by language. We describe and name things with language. It is the system in which we think. So only the question of anthing 'being' somewhere, defines your perception of being and does not defines itself. Are there sounds when a tree falls and when I'm not there? You can't say, because ultimately you don't have a clue what you're actually talking about, because you actually can't define what a sound is like. Look up Wittgenstein (II). These arguments look nuts the first time and aren't useful in anyway, except for figuring out that you can't define something for sure.

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Lynxxus said:

Let me begin by saying that I am NOT a philosopher and really, have no say in the whole matter but I have always loved philosophy and all the thought it produces.

A few of my peers and I had a debate/discussion over a philosophical question that arose in American Government today.
Imagine a book. That book has words in it. You can clearly see them when it is open but what happens when you close it. If the cover is closed, how do you know that the words are still there? This same applies to other things. The famed "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound". Well, let's look at it briefly. Sound is only sound when it is received. If sound has nothing to be received by, then is it even there? The same applies to something that Einstein once said to his professor.
"Can you see your brain right now?"
The professor answered "no"
"Then how do you know it's there?"

What if you were looking straight forward...what if you were to question what was behind you. What if there was nothing behind you? What if images only appeared when something wasLOOKED at it.

Have we proof that our eyes exist if we can't see them? Have we proof that words disappear when you close a book?

My friend answered that it is scientifically impossible.
Ah...good answer my friend, but can science prove that words can disappear? Not really because science has never SEEN this happen. Again, this question arises.

Anyone want to discuss the matter?

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Lynxxus said:

Imagine a book. That book has words in it. You can clearly see them when it is open but what happens when you close it. If the cover is closed, how do you know that the words are still there?

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Received said:

Indeed. Some scientifically-minded among us would distinguish sound (which is subjective) from frequency (which is objective). Yet even the labeling of "frequency" projects subjectivity to the thing-in-itself, a quality-less "something" that's ineffable. As Wittgenstein would say, "what we can't speak about we must pass over in silence."

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quatona said:

However, imo it should be possible to ask whether processes (which we don´t even have to label, categorize, verbalize or define in particular) take place independently of our perception, and possibly even to attempt an answer.

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Pixart said:

It's is surely possible to ask if something takes place. But the only thing you can
say would be:"I think it's possible/impossible, because....". You only can think it will be so or not, but you can't be certain that it actually is so.
In this very skeptic way I would say that in such questions you can't have a definite answer.

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But to live your life a bit easier, I would stay pragmatic: "Yes, the letters are in the book, even though it's closed. Because when you open the book, you'll see the letters again." Something less to worry about in this life!

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me said:

Now, "proof" is a big word - and it all depends on what qualifies as "proof" by your standards.
Personally, I have made the experience that the words are there whenever I open the book, and that´s good enough for me. I really don´t care much what they are doing in the meantime. Maybe the go on vacation in the Carribean - if so, more power to them. As long as they are back when I need them.

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Lynxxus said:

Let me begin by saying that I am NOT a philosopher and really, have no say in the whole matter but I have always loved philosophy and all the thought it produces.

A few of my peers and I had a debate/discussion over a philosophical question that arose in American Government today.
Imagine a book. That book has words in it. You can clearly see them when it is open but what happens when you close it. If the cover is closed, how do you know that the words are still there? This same applies to other things. The famed "If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound". Well, let's look at it briefly. Sound is only sound when it is received. If sound has nothing to be received by, then is it even there? The same applies to something that Einstein once said to his professor.
"Can you see your brain right now?"
The professor answered "no"
"Then how do you know it's there?"

What if you were looking straight forward...what if you were to question what was behind you. What if there was nothing behind you? What if images only appeared when something wasLOOKED at it.

Have we proof that our eyes exist if we can't see them? Have we proof that words disappear when you close a book?

My friend answered that it is scientifically impossible.
Ah...good answer my friend, but can science prove that words can disappear? Not really because science has never SEEN this happen. Again, this question arises.

Anyone want to discuss the matter?

Click to expand...