• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

What is Theistic Evolution? - An explanation

Status
Not open for further replies.

Alchemist

Seeking in Orthodoxy
Jun 13, 2004
585
100
39
✟23,744.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
In Relationship
Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

As promised in another thread, I have written an essay for everyone, entitled 'What is Theistic Evolution?'. As a theistic evolutionist, I get many questions regarding my faith, and my justification for it, both scientifically and theologically. I hope through writing this I can help people understand the TE viewpoint, and clear up a few misconceptions about evolution, and its relationship with Christianity.

I do not claim that this will be a definite guide to TE, neither do I claim that I necessarily represent all theistic evolutionists with my views. Although I have believed in God and in Christianity for a long time, I have only recently become an evolutionist, and so I might not be the greatest representative of our group ;). This said, I hope I can offer an insight into the basics of our beliefs, and why we believe what we do, as opposed to other creationist viewpoints, primarily Young Earth Creationism.

May God bless every one of us, that we may unite in our differences, and together spread the word of our God, and His Son, Jesus Christ.

Peace,
Alchemist
 

Alchemist

Seeking in Orthodoxy
Jun 13, 2004
585
100
39
✟23,744.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
In Relationship
What is it?

Theistic Evolution is the belief that God created the Earth, and then used evolutionary processes to create the living creatures of the Earth, such as plants and animals.


Why do you not believe in a young earth?

In recent times, science has proven (almost) beyond doubt that the Earth is older than previously thought much older. Discoveries in numerous scientific fields, including astronomy, physics, chemistry and geology, have led scientists to believe that the Earth came into existance around 5 billion years ago. These discoveries, combined with knowledge from the fields of archaeology, paleontology, history, and biology, have led to the near-universal acceptance of evolution within the scientific community. As Christians, we must ask: Are the scientists wrong with regards to the age of the earth; their hypothesis having not been disproven (although many attempts have been made) for the last 200 years? Or are we wrong with our interpretation of the Bible; a book that, although we all believe is the word of God, we at times struggle to understand?

As theistic evolutionists, we believe that the latter is the case. It is not that we trust science more than the Bible. We just believe that if science appears to disprove the Bible, then we obviously aren't interpreting the Bible correctly. It is for this reason we accept an old-earth (and as a consequence, evolution). After all, if God did make the world very recently, how come He made it so scientists would think it was so old? Of course, none of us are really fit to answer this question, but most of us believe that God would not deliberately cause anyone to think the world was old unless it really was, and so accept an old Earth.



But the science says the earth is young!

I'm sorry, but it doesn't. Although there are several groups around that oppose evolution, the fact is most scientists believe that the earth is old, and evolution happened. Science, by definition, is the secular observation of the world, and naturalistic phenomena. There are only two reasons why scientists would have come to the conclusion that the earth was old, if in fact it wasn't:

a) Scientists are stupid.
b) Scientists are part of an atheistic conspiracy to disprove creation.


Remarkable as the latter claim seems, it forms a large part of 'evidence' against creation. However, this claim is remarkably without warrant. Many of the original scientists who formulated the now-accepted theories about the Earth's creation were indeed Christian - why would Christians want to disprove their faith? I recently attended a seminar at my church, run by the director of a well-known Australian 'Creation Science' institute. Having taken a biology course, and learning about evolution and how it works, I was interested to hear about what his research institute had come up with, from a scientific perspective. Needless to say, I was most shocked when, less than 10 minutes into his talk, he started throwing around preposterous statements about Darwin, and how he (apparently) invented the theory of evolution to disprove God!


Of course, Darwin (like anyone else) did have struggles with his faith. His observations in nature challenged him greatly, as they appeared to contradict the teachings of his church (which were that the earth was very young, based on a literal reading of Genesis). But to suggest he was out of disprove God, just because he held an opposing view than his native denomination, is a rather odd statement to make. Were Luther and Calvin out to disprove God, when they challenged church doctrine during the Reformation? Was Wesley out to disprove God by founding the Methodist congregation? I think not.

Likewise, the concept of the 'Big Bang', which posits that the universe was created out of a singularity around 13.7* billion years ago, was not invented by an atheist. In fact, the concept was first proposed by Georges-Henri Lemaître in 1927, a physicist, mathematician, and ordained priest in the Roman Catholic Church. His theory, which suggested an expanding universe, was initially not accepted by many scientists, among other reasons because it suggested that the universe was created:
"This proposal caused a sharp reaction from the scientific community of the time. Eddington found Lemaitre's notion unpleasant. As for Einstein, he found it suspect, because, according to him, it was too strongly reminiscent of the Christian dogma of creation and was unjustifiable from a physical point of view."**
Evolution says we evolved from nothing, which is impossible!

This is one of the widest misconceptions about evolution. In fact, evolution does have anything to do with how the first organisms came about, evolution only says how those organisms passed on their genetic material to the next generation, and how genetic material was changed over time. As yet, scientists do not have a definitive explanation for how the first organisms came about. The most popular theory is that the first 'living creatures' were simply self-replicating polypeptides, which later developed into more complicated (but still very basic) self-replicating systems. However, this has nothing to do with evolution. If someone tells you that we all evolved from a rock, please do argue with them! But likewise, if someone tells you that evolution says we all evolved from a rock, keep in mind that is not what it says at all. Evolution is only concerned with existing populations, it does not have anything to do with how the original organisms came about.

Genesis 1 can only be read literally; the church has always taught that.

Unfortunately for TE's today, many YEC's propogate the idea that the church has always taught that Genesis 1, and the following chapters, must be read literally. However, this is a claim without much supporting evidence. In fact, from the very start of the Christian Church, well-known theologians have recognised the poetic nature of Genesis, and recognised that it is not necessarily supposed to be taken literally. This is for a number of reasons, but primarily due to the seeming contradictions one comes across when taking both Genesis 1 and 2 literally:
- Genesis 1:5
This talks about the 'first day'. YEC's would argue this is a literal, 24 hour day, defined by the sun. However, the sun is not created until the 'fourth day' (cv. Genesis 1:14). If the sun is not in existance, than how can one say a day is a literal 24-hour period of time marked by the movement of the sun?
- Genesis 1:11-31

In this passage, God creates the plants, sun, moon and stars, animals, then humans, in chronological order. However, in Genesis 1:18-19, we read that God creates the animals after He has created Adam. This is hard to explain if the chronologies of both are accurate.

- Genesis 4:16-17

In this passage, it is mentioned Cain went to live in the land of Nod, where he took a wife and conceived a son. Several questions arise here. Firstly, where did his wife come from? Was she an unmentioned daughter of Adam and Eve, who too rejected God and left for the Land of Nod? Or did she come from the Land of Nod, where Cain went to? If this is indeed the case, this implies that not only did God create Adam and Eve in the garden, but also created Cain's wife in the Land of Nod, which would appear to go against literalist views. Of course, one must also wonder how many people were living in the Land of Nod...

- Genesis 4:14-15

This raises another point regarding Cain. In this passage, Cain fears he will be murdered for his actions, so God sets 'a mark upon Cain'. Who was going to kill Cain, if only him, Adam and Eve were on the Earth?
The truth is, the insistance on a literalist reading of the Bible is confined to primarily fundamentalist groupings with Christianity, not the greater church, and the idea of strict literalism is not a traditional concept. This is evidenced by the writings of many of the early church theologians, who realised that there was more to the creation account than a historical record, primarily due to the contradictions shown above, and with obvious regard to the poetic structure of the account. When one comes across contradictions, what does one do? Does one ignore them? Does one simply write off the Bible as nonsense? (Surely, many people, faced with either accepting a literal reading, or denying the Bible, have chosen the latter). Or does one seek another explanation; realising that the text could be metaphorical?

This indeed is the option the Church has taken, and not just since the Big Bang theory gained acceptance. Take a look at the following quotes from early theologians in the Church:
"For who that has understanding will suppose that the first and second and third day existed without a sun and moon and stars and that the first day was, as it were, also without a sky? ...I do not suppose that anyone doubts that these things figuratively indicate certain mysteries, the history having taken place in appearance and not literally."
- Origen
"And with regard to the creation of the light upon the first day ...and of the [great] lights and stars upon the fourth... we have treated to the best of our ability in our notes upon Genesis, as well as in the foregoing pages, when we found fault with those who, taking the words in their apparent signification, said that the time of six days was occupied in the creation of the world."
- Origen
"And how could creation take place in time, seeing time was born along with things which exist? ...That, then, we may be taught that the world was originated and not suppose that God made it in time, prophecy adds: ‘This is the book of the generation, also of the things in them, when they were created in the day that God made heaven and earth’ [Gen. 2:4]. For the expression ‘when they were created’ intimates an indefinite and dateless production. But the expression ‘in the day that God made them,’ that is, in and by which God made ‘all things,’ and ‘without which not even one thing was made,’ points out the activity exerted by the Son."
- Clement of Alexandria
"With the scriptures it is a matter of treating about the faith. For that reason, as I have noted repeatedly, if anyone, not understanding the mode of divine eloquence, should find something about these matters [about the physical universe] in our books, or hear of the same from those books, of such a kind that it seems to be at variance with the perceptions of his own rational faculties, let him believe that these other things are in no way necessary to the admonitions or accounts or predictions of the scriptures. In short, it must be said that our authors knew the truth about the nature of the skies, but it was not the intention of the Spirit of God, who spoke through them, to teach men anything that would not be of use to them for their salvation."
- Augustine
"On the fourth day the luminaries came into existence. Since God has foreknowledge, he understood the nonsense of the foolish philosophers who were going to say that the things produced on earth come from the stars, so that they might set God aside. In order therefore that the truth might be demonstrated, plants and seeds came into existence before the stars. For what comes into existence later cannot cause what is prior to it."
- Theophilus of Antioch
As we see, the theologians had differing viewpoints, but were in agreement that the 'days' in Genesis were not literal days, and that as such creation could have taken longer than 144 hours. Hence, any argument that the Church has 'always taught' that literalism is vital to interpretation of Scripture should not be taken seriously.***
 
  • Like
Reactions: gluadys
Upvote 0

Alchemist

Seeking in Orthodoxy
Jun 13, 2004
585
100
39
✟23,744.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
In Relationship
Creation hasn't evolved, it has de-evolved, from a perfect state.

This concept, a common YEC argument, is one that makes little sense. By de-evolution, we are led to believe that creation, through genetic mutation (which is inheritantly bad) has caused us to lose all of our genetic information as time goes on. However, this is completely illogical. If natural selection does occur, then the genes that are detrimental to an population's survival will be lost over time, and the traits which help a population survive will be retained. For a perfect organism to lose all its 'good' genes, then by the definition of natural selection, those genes were never really 'good' in the first place. Notice, 'good' and 'bad' are never used in the biological field - how does one definition what is a good mutation, and what is bad? Evolution does not concern itself with subjectivity, it concerns itself which what affects an organism's ability to bear offspring, and it turn pass on its genetic information. In this regard, it is proposterous to suggest that new, helpful information is not formed - unless one denies that mutation and natural selection occur, which goes against principles directly observed on numerous occassions, both in the laboratory, and in nature. If no new information was formed, then a de-evolution process would not occur; the genetic makeup of all plants and animals would stay the same.


But the Earth was perfect, no new information has been formed!

The only other alternative to accepting new information has been formed is to propose that all the information was originally there, before the fall. As I note above, natural selection (a concept accepted by nearly all creation scientists) dictates that genes helpful for an organism's survival will stay, and that genes unhelpful for an organism's ability to pass on its genes (i.e. reproduce) will be weeded out. If indeed the world was perfect before the fall, and new genes have not been formed since, then it dictates that all genetic information was around before the Fall - including all those genetic disorders and diseases which are in the world today. Without a lot of thought one realises why this hypothesis makes no sense; by claiming new, helpful genes have no been formed since the Fall, one by logical conclusion posits that Adam and Eve had genes for all of the diseases and genetic disorders on Earth. This is a ludicrous suggestion, as by simple Mendellian genetics, we would predict that each of Adam and Eve's offspring would have around a quarter of the aforementioned illnesses****. Surely that's not a good way to start creation off!

This entire concept of a perfect Earth, with no physical death, is a rather unusual proposition. From Genesis 4:14-15, we can discover several things about Creation. In this passage, God says that in the day that Adam eats of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil he shall 'surely die'. From the name of the tree, the 'Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil', we understand that good and evil already both exist, even if Adam and Eve did not know what they were. We also notice that God says to Adam that he shall 'surely die' if he eats from this tree. However, in Genesis 5:3, we read Adam lives for around 130 years after leaving the Garden of Eden. What is going on here? Adam did not die; did God lie?

The answer lies in the definition of 'death'. Although Adam and Eve assumed God meant physical death, He was not talking about physical death. He was talking about 'death' of our once perfect spirit, the force which makes us accountable to God*****. Before 'the eyes of them both were opened' (Genesis 3:7), Adam and Eve both did not know good from evil, they were not accountable (and, it must be noted, God was seemingly happy with this). As such, their spirit was pure. However, after eating of the fruit, their spirit was tainted, as they now knew good from evil, and so fell from the grace of God. This is precisely what the concept of the Fall is. Without the concept of spiritual death, the Fall cannot be said to apply to us at all, as it was only Adam and Eve who 'died'. It is the very fact that Genesis is talking about spiritual death that makes us accountable to God, and makes Jesus' sacrifice necessary. The Fall really has nothing to do with physical death; if it did, then all followers of Christ would live for ever, in their physical form. We know however, that this is not the case - we are promised eternal life, but not on this Earth.

F
urther justification for physical death being a possibility before the fall is to be found in Genesis; God sends man out of the Garden of Eden, lest they eat of the 'Tree of Life':
"And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"
- Genesis 3:22

From this verse, we see that Adam and Eve did not previously have eternal life (else they would not need to eat of the Tree of Life to have it), hence they were mortal, and as such, subject to physical death as we are today. If God did not intend Adam and Eve to die, then why were they created so that they must 'eat of the fruit' before they lived forever? By this alone we can see that Adam and Eve (and any other animal / human / plant for that matter) were not intended to live forever; if they were the chance is God would have created them to live forever. Can a spider eat fruit from a tree? Most likely not, yet one of the most commonly-touted arguments against evolution is that it involves death. If animals were subject to death, why shouldn't evolution happen?


So, even if animals evolved - you aren't just saying we're all animals acting on naturalistic instincts are you?


No, of course not!****** This is certainly where one of the main differences between atheistic evolution and (Christian) theistic evolution comes up. Generally speaking, the mechanisms of evolution between the two are the same. But Christianity talks about accountability, sin and redemption. How are we supposed to be accountable if we are all just destined to act out our natural, biochemical desires?


This is where the spirit comes in. Every living being has a soul - the thing that makes them alive. We see this in nature; things are either dead or alive, they are not both. I believe that the soul is (if you like) naturalistic; that is, death is defined by biochemical boundaries, and as such, the soul is biochemical. In Genesis, we only read that Adam received the "breath of life, yet all animals (most would agree?) are alive. Again referring to the spiritual life concept above, I think the "breath of life" referred to here is the spirit (unfortunately for my choice of names, many Bible translations translate "soul" here). It is this soul that controls our instincts, our naturalistic desires, what the 'flesh' wants us to do. I believe all animals have this soul, as they are all able to interact with each other.


Humans, however, in addition to the soul, have the spirit; the spirit given to Adam and Eve. Before the Fall, their spirit was perfect; man was living out his life as God wanted him to. However, when they sinned against God, their spirit became tarnished - they succombed to the desire of the 'flesh'. It is this spirit that makes us human, gives us our conscience, gives us our morals, gives us the desire to act against our instinct - gives us our free will. I could not name one another creature on Earth that willingly goes against all its desires (and in many cases, what would be helpful for itself as well as other creatures, ruling out the possibility it was caused by some altruistic gene) in order to do what is morally right; yet we do, because of our spirit. Yet our spirit is not perfect, we still live with the burden of sin. That is why we are given the Holy Spirit when we believe, so that God is with us again, as He was in the Garden, constantly reminding us, fulfilling our spirit so that it never dies.


A commonly-touted analogy of this is of a piece of wood in a fire; when the piece of wood is taken away from the fire, it loses heat, and slowly goes out. Yet when the wood is in the fire, the heat from other pieces of wood burning keeps it alight. God is the fire. Our spirit is the burning piece of wood. Our soul is the rain trying to put out the wood. Animals are not judged, because they do not have the spirit. But we as humans do, and this is why we are accountable, this is why we aren't just acting on our natural instincts. This is why humans are different. As Jesus (as reported in the Gospel of John) said:
"'It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.'"
- John 6:63


What about YEC?


Personally, I do not have real problems with anyone who follows Young Earth Creationism. As I said, for a long time, I too was a follower of YEC doctrine. However, the sad fact is that a lot of YEC's spread a lot of rumors and untruths about evolution, and state that it is the only possible interpretation of Genesis - in my opinion, a false, and malicious statement. To dogmatically assert that your opinion is the only correct interpretation of scripture - on any issue - I think is rather sad, and is placing yourself above millions of other Christians, all who seek to follow Christ, on what is essentially a non-salvation issue. Fuel is added to the fire when many people, led to believe that the Bible explicitly states that the universe is only 6000 years old, write it off as fabricated, untrue, anti-intellectual nonsense. The Bible is a great and magnificent book, and I think it is a shame than many people, who would otherwise consider Christianity, are put off by dogmatic assertions about its contents by what is essentially a minority of the greater Christian community*******.


The other unfortunate fact is that many younger people, growing up in traditionally YEC church environments, are put through a crisis of faith, having been led to believe that scientific opinion supports the YEC hypothesis. When they find out that this overwhelmingly is not the case, they can come to feel isolated and betrayed by their church, and many have turned away from the faith. I know several people who have been through this scenario, myself included. I have always been very strong in my belief that there is a God, and through coming to ChristianForums, where I discovered that they are many strong men and women who fully accept the Bible yet still accept evolution, I was able to get through it all, and come out of it better off - something I am most grateful to God for. Yet I know there are many who have not been so lucky, and this is what I am scared of. I cannot stand to see one more person turn away from God because of their preconceived ideas about evolution challenging their view of the Bible, especially when it is so unnecessary. One of my acquaintances used to be a theist like us, having grown up in a Christian family. We got into a discussion about evolution one day; she told me that she wasn't Christian anymore. When I asked her why, she told me that she wanted "to be a scientist", and that she couldn't "accept fairytales any longer". If she had realised that the largest Christian denomination in the world accepted evolution and an old earth, would she have turned away? We can never know, but I cannot help but think that her deep-rooted 'YEC-or-nothing' views led to her apostacy. As Augustine wrote:
"It not infrequently happens that something about the earth, about the sky, about other elements of this world, about the motion and rotation or even the magnitude and distances of the stars, about definite eclipses of the sun and moon, about the passage of years and seasons, about the nature of animals, of fruits, of stones, and of other such things, may be known with the greatest certainty by reasoning or by experience, even by one who is not a Christian. It is too disgraceful and ruinous, though, and greatly to be avoided, that he [the non-Christian] should hear a Christian speaking so idiotically on these matters, and as if in accord with Christian writings, that he might say that he could scarcely keep from laughing when he saw how totally in error they are. In view of this and in keeping it in mind constantly while dealing with the book of Genesis, I have, insofar as I was able, explained in detail and set forth for consideration the meanings of obscure passages, taking care not to affirm rashly some one meaning to the prejudice of another and perhaps better explanation."
Please don't get me wrong. If you feel strongly that the Earth truly is young, and you don't wish to accept evolution, by all means, don't! God talks to us all in different ways, and I don't think anyone can say they know everything about the Earth, its creation, or anything else for that matter. It would be a lie if I told you that I am entirely convinced of the Theistic Evolution position, however in my opinion is it just as valid, if not more, than the traditional YEC argument. Whether you share this opinion is up to you. I don't want the whole world to follow my viewpoint. I just want acceptance - open acceptance - of theistic evolution, so that the dogma of YEC no longer is seen as an 'essential' tenet of the Christian faith, as really, it isn't. Yes; God created the Earth, there is no denying that. But is it really necessary to know exactly how?

Perhaps the best quote I've seen on the internet about the whole creation issue comes from a member of the Institute for Creation Research (ICR), corresponding with a young biology student. I think this quote sums up the issue nicely, so this is where I will end. If you have questions, please ask. I hope that this essay has helped you come to a better understand of where us TE's stand on the creation issue, and God will guide us all to the truth, whatever that may be.
"It is the grace of God made available to us by the death of His Son, Jesus, that puts us in right relationship to God, not our scientific understandings. When we get to heaven we will ALL find that we had something wrong!"
- Cynthia Carlson, ICR
 
Upvote 0

Alchemist

Seeking in Orthodoxy
Jun 13, 2004
585
100
39
✟23,744.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
In Relationship
Footnotes

* This is the date given for the Big Bang itself. The date of the creation of the Sun, and consequently the Earth, is placed in the region about 4.5-5 billion years ago.


** Taken from Wikipedia article, "Georges Lemaître", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lema%EEtre

*** Indeed, the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church states that the creation account is an allegory: "Scripture presents the work of the Creator symbolically as a succession of six days of divine ‘work,’ concluded by the ‘rest’ of the seventh day." - Catechism of the Catholic Church 337

**** If the genes were represented as two alleles (the dominant 'good', and the recessive 'bad'), then an offspring borne of two heterozygous parents would have P(0.25) of being homozygous for the 'bad' gene.

***** Indeed, this is the slip of meanings the serpent uses to trick Adam and Eve; they did not die physically on that day, but they did spiritually.

****** This section deals with my own personal opinion; all theistic evolutionists have differing opinions on this issue, as it is a strictly theological, and not scientific, issue. Nevertheless, I would say this is rather representative of general theistic evolutionist opinion. TE's, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!

******* It is true that in America, where there is a large fundamentalist movement, the proportion of YECs to other groups (TE, OEC etc.) is quite high. However, on a world-wide basis, TE is in the majority, with the RCC, Orthodox, Anglican, and many mainline/liberal denominations in support of alternative origins theology.
 
Upvote 0

Vance

Contributor
Jul 16, 2003
6,666
264
59
✟30,780.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
STICKY!!!!!!

Alchemist, very well done. I really do think this should be made a sticky (although we have a lot of them already), along with any basic "position statement" the YEC or OEC advocates would like to add.

A few fine tuning points if you are interested.

1. In the last sentence of the first paragraph of “Why do you not believe in a young earth”, I think you should clarify that question is whether it is the literal reading of Scripture which is more likely wrong, rather than just “our belief” since many have never held a literal belief in Genesis.

2. I think tying the idea of a belief in an old earth as “part and parcel” with evolution is not altogether true since an old earth is true, even if evolution is not. People do not believe evolution because the earth is old or vice-versa. Scientists knew the earth was old before evolution was even thought of, so evolution did not "create" a mandate for an old earth. And, an old earth itself would not mandate evolution, as the Progressive Creationists will quickly point out.

But I think the essay is very well done and covers a lot of important points!
 
Upvote 0

tryptophan

Well-Known Member
May 28, 2004
485
23
41
Missouri
✟23,241.00
Faith
Catholic
Politics
US-Others
Vance said:
Ah, a "bump" is general forum lingo for sending an important thread back up to the top of the discussions since it is too important to be buried three pages deep. Thus, you "bump" it back up to the top.
Ah, I see. I was wondering what everybody meant when they included that word.

In any case, thank you for the explanation Alchemist (although I haven't read the whole thing). I'll use it for reference in the future.
 
Upvote 0

JohnR7

Well-Known Member
Feb 9, 2002
25,258
209
Ohio
✟29,532.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Alchemist said:
many YEC's propogate the idea that the church has always taught that Genesis 1, and the following chapters, must be read literally.

There is no conflict between a literal reading of Genesis and evolution. There is only a conflict with the traditions of man. Also the Bible usually has more than one meaning. So even when there is a literal meaning, the main purpose of a passage maybe symbolic. That is the case with animal sacrifices. There was a literal sacrifice, but the meaning for us today is symbolic or an objective lesson.

That was the problem with Hebrew nation, they became so obsessed with the literal meaning of the Bible, that they missed the real significance of what God was trying to show them and teach them.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.