What is the purpose of believer baptism?

tonychanyt · Jul 6, 2023

Purposes of credobaptism:

It is an act of obedience to fulfill all righteousness as Jesus himself was baptized in Matthew 3:15.
It is an act of obedience to fulfill the great commission (Matthew 28:19).
It is a sign of death and resurrection (Colossians 2:11-12).

When baptism is done sincerely with repentance, it is an act of spiritual reality. However, this outward ritual is meaningless if not accompanied by inward repentance.

HTacianas · Jul 6, 2023

tonychanyt said:
It is an act of obedience to fulfill all righteousness as Jesus himself was baptized in Matthew 3:15.

It is an act of obedience to fulfill the great commission (Matthew 28:19).

It is a sign of death and resurrection (Colossians 2:11-12).

Basically, it symbolizes cleansing and new life in Jesus. This outward ritual is meaningless if not accompanied by inward repentance.

It is for the remission of previous sins.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

tturt · Jul 6, 2023

There's "...the doctrine of baptisms,..." (Heb 6:2).

Baptism means immersions and there's 3 main Biblical ones. Each one with outward behaviors resulting from this new, inward, spiritual state.

1 - By The Holy Spirit into Jesus reconcilng us to God (at salvation).
2- By another believer (water baptism) All 3 persons of the Godhead involved in this baptism as well.
3 - By Jesus who sends the promise of the Father baptists us "by," "with" and "in" the Holy Spirit and comes upon us (The Spirit baptism)

More details:
1 - By The Holy Spirit into Jesus which reconciles us to God is the baptism at salvation. Baptized by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ by believing in His death, burial, and resurrection. We become new creatures in Christ. We will tell others of our salvation. (Rev 1:5; Matt 26:28; Mark 1:4-9, 16:16; Luk 3:3; 1 Cor 12:13; Acts 2:38; Gal 3:27, II Cor 5:17-18, Rom 10:9).

Water and Spirit baptism follows salvation - not in a set order though
2 - By another believer (water baptism) "... fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness," (Matt 3:6-16, 28:18-20; Acts 8:39, 10:47, 22:16; John 3:5).

3- - By Jesus who sends the promise of the Father baptists us "by," "with" and "in" the Holy Spirit (The Spirit baptism) includes when the Holy Spirit comes upon us, He endures us with power for service to Him, to be His witnesses, and to keep His Word. (Matt 3:11, 5:16; Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16; John 1:33, Acts 1:5, 8:14-17, 10:44-48, 11:16; I Cor 12:13, Luk 24:49, Eph 5:18, Acts 4:31; I John 3:24; Eze 36:25-28; John 14:25-27).

tonychanyt · Jul 7, 2023

HTacianas said:
It is for the remission of previous sins.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

What if you don't repent and get baptized?

HTacianas · Jul 7, 2023

tonychanyt said:
What if you don't repent and get baptized?

No one knows the answer to that question. Especially me.

tonychanyt · Jul 7, 2023

HTacianas said:
No one knows the answer to that question. Especially me.

See Is baptism required for eternal life? and follow up there

msortwell · Jul 18, 2023

tturt said:
Baptism means immersions and there's 3 main Biblical ones. Each one with outward behaviors resulting from this new, inward, spiritual state.

Would you care to offer biblical evidence for the position that "Baptism means immersion"?

tturt · Jul 20, 2023

There are problems or difficulties translatiing words such as baptize according to numerous websites. Seems many are satisifed with baptize meaning water baptism only in whatever manner is acceptable to the believer.

There are 3 main Biblical baptisms. Post #3 above.

Strong's G907 - baptizō means immerse, submerged, wash, bathe, overwhelm

Just a few Scripture -

We, who God considered dead in trespasses and sins, "hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:" Eph 2
So at the point when we are His, we become new creatures in Christ. Seems immersed. ""If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (I John 1:9). "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (II Cor 5:17).

John the Baptist said, "I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
27 He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose." John 1
'The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." Isa 1:18 Seems immersed.

"And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 10:45 Poured out seems immersed.

With the Trinity, it seems immersed.
"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." II Cor 5:17
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matt 28

msortwell · Jul 22, 2023

tturt said:
Strong's G907 - baptizō means immerse, submerged, wash, bathe, overwhelm

Greek 907, "βαπτίζω baptízō, bap-tid'-zo; from a derivative of G911; to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism:—Baptist, baptize, wash."

Speaking of the Pharisees in Mark 7:4, Jesus wrote, "And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables." In the original language that would be . . .
7:4 καὶ ἀπό ἀγορᾶς ἐὰν μὴ βαπτίσωνται οὐκ ἐσθίουσιν καὶ ἄλλα πολλά ἐστιν ἃ παρέλαβον κρατεῖν βαπτισμοὺς ποτηρίων καὶ ξεστῶν καὶ χαλκίων καὶ κλινῶν.

I asked if you could provide biblical evidence that baptism necessarily/always means immersion. What you provided was that James H. Strong understands that βαπτίζω has several meanings, one of which is to immerse. By way of biblical evidence, I was asking if you could offer Scripture that necessarily implies that βαπτίζω was always used in reference to an act of immersion. For example, I offer Mark 7:4 by which reason seems to dictate that βαπτίζω can simply refer to washing or cleansing in a manner that, in this particular case, would not involve immersion of the thing being baptized/washed - the likelihood that tables were routinely immersed seems negligible.

Light of the East · Aug 1, 2023

tonychanyt said:
It is an act of obedience to fulfill all righteousness as Jesus himself was baptized in Matthew 3:15.

It is an act of obedience to fulfill the great commission (Matthew 28:19).

It is a sign of death and resurrection (Colossians 2:11-12).

When baptism is done sincerely with repentance, it is an act of spiritual reality. However, this outward ritual is meaningless if not accompanied by inward repentance.

How does an infant child repent? Are you saying that children are not worthy of being made members of the Kingdom of God until they can understand what they are doing? That's not how circumcision, which was replaced by baptism, worked. The infant was circumcised and made a member of the Kingdom shortly after birth.

tonychanyt · Aug 2, 2023

Light of the East said:
How does an infant child repent? Are you saying that children are not worthy of being made members of the Kingdom of God until they can understand what they are doing? That's not how circumcision, which was replaced by baptism, worked. The infant was circumcised and made a member of the Kingdom shortly after birth.

See What is the purpose of infant baptism? and follow up there.

concretecamper · Aug 20, 2023

tonychanyt said:
What if you don't repent and get baptized?

The Church teaches that in order for a Sacrament to be valid, 3 things are necessary.

1. Proper form
2. Proper matter
3. Proper intention

tonychanyt · Aug 20, 2023

concretecamper said:
The Church teaches that in order for a Sacrament to be valid, 3 things are necessary.

1. Proper form
2. Proper matter
3. Proper intention

So what if you don't repent and get baptized?

concretecamper · Aug 20, 2023

Why would you want to get baptized and not repent?

tonychanyt · Aug 20, 2023

concretecamper said:
Why would you want to get baptized and not repent?

I am not talking about me. What if some person doesn't repent and get baptized?

concretecamper · Aug 20, 2023

tonychanyt said:
I am not talking about me. What if some person doesn't repent and get baptized?

What are the conditions where one would want to get baptized but refuse to repent. Your supposition required an explanation.

tonychanyt · Aug 20, 2023

concretecamper said:
What are the conditions where one would want to get baptized but refuse to repent. Your supposition required an explanation.

I don't know.

Are you saying that no such persons exist in the last 2000 years of Christendom?

concretecamper · Aug 20, 2023

tonychanyt said:
I don't know.

Are you saying that no such persons exist in the last 2000 years of Christendom?

I think before an thoughtful answer could be provided, it is imperative that such an odd situation be explained.

Maybe you could offer some reasons on why a person would want to be baptized yet refuse to repent. Those 2 action are completely at odds with each other, but I am open to listening to some reasons why

tonychanyt · Aug 20, 2023

concretecamper said:
I think before an thoughtful answer could be provided, it is imperative that such an odd situation be explained.

Maybe you could offer some reasons on why a person would want to be baptized yet refuse to repent. Those 2 action are completely at odds with each other, but I am open to listening to some reasons why

I don't know.

Are you saying that no such persons exist in the last 2000 years of Christendom?

concretecamper · Aug 20, 2023

tonychanyt said:
I don't know.

I can tell

tonychanyt said:
Are you saying that no such persons exist in the last 2000 years of Christendom?

I think you answered your own question with "I don't know"

What is the purpose of believer baptism?

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