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What is the purpose behind an eternal hell?

Ultima4257

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Before I begin, I understand there are different views on hell, but I only wish to discuss one....eternal conscious torment. Personally, I have started to break away from this view, but if there is any truth to it I want to discuss it. That said, for those of you who hold to this view, what purpose do you see in the design of such a place? Throughout scripture, for the most part, I can see that God has a method and reason to his laws and punishments. With that in mind, what purpose does burning someone alive in unquenchable fire for all eternity accomplish? Why did God choose fire for the punishment? Why is it forever instead of a finite amount of time? Please be respectful and on point regarding this topic.
 

Davian

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Before I begin, I understand there are different views on hell, but I only wish to discuss one....eternal conscious torment. Personally, I have started to break away from this view, but if there is any truth to it I want to discuss it. That said, for those of you who hold to this view, what purpose do you see in the design of such a place? Throughout scripture, for the most part, I can see that God has a method and reason to his laws and punishments. With that in mind, what purpose does burning someone alive in unquenchable fire for all eternity accomplish? Why did God choose fire for the punishment? Why is it forever instead of a finite amount of time? Please be respectful and on point regarding this topic.
While I do not for a picosecond believe that this has any relation to reality, I would echo bhsmte in saying that the threat of "Hell" is a scare tactic, the 'stick' in a carrot-and-stick-type of theology.

If we consider it, hypothetically, as possibly being possible, it would seem to be a form of punishment; and, from what I understand, there are essentially three reasons for punishing a person:
1) Anger/retribution
2) As a deterrent, to show others that such behaviour is wrong
3) To teach the person a lesson so they won't repeat the behaviour.

In the context of "Hell", the person's life is over, so #3 doesn't apply.

#3 is also a problem, in that sin (disbelief) is not a conscious act.

As we have no demonstrable evidence for the existence of a biblical "Hell", or that anyone has gone there, #2 doesn't apply.

So that leaves us with #1. If Hell exists, then this [hypothetical] God sends people there out of his own vengeance, for something beyond their control.

Why fire? Fire is scary. Why forever? It sounds scarier than not forever.
 
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food4thought

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The purpose of hell is to separate those who will not submit to the will of God from those who choose to submit to God... remember, sin is a disease that has infected the entire human race. Heaven would not be heaven if sin were allowed to perpetuate itself in the disobedient there. In that sense, think of hell as an isolation unit for those who are terminally ill with a contagious disease.

I do not believe that the descriptions of hell from Scripture are intended to be taken literally. God is not in the habit of torturing people in fire for all eternity. The imagery (darkness, filthy burning garbage dump, lake of fire/lava, grave worms, etc) is designed to evoke a primal response of revulsion in those who hear of it, but was never intended to be taken literally IMO.

Darkness= separation from God (the source of all light)

Filthy garbage= describes the presence of sin, exemplified by the human sacrifice that happened in the valley of gehenna

Lake of fire/torment= constant attempts at purification and testing for purity (look up the original base meaning for the greek word translated "torment", it was originally a word used to describe testing metal that had been refined in the furnace for purity against a touchstone)... scipture indicates that they will never escape hell, therefore they will never be found pure, having rejected the only One who could make them pure.

Grave worms= death, not life

Just my thoughts, for what they're worth...

As for why it is eternal and not temporal, I am not really sure... it might have to do with the fact that sins are committed against an eternal infinite God, so sin would naturally then have an eternal infinite consequence. Perhaps someone else has a better answer to that. I waiver sometimes on eternal conscious torment (ECT) verses annihilationism, but lean ECT.
 
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Ultima4257

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The purpose of hell is to separate those who will not submit to the will of God from those who choose to submit to God... remember, sin is a disease that has infected the entire human race. Heaven would not be heaven if sin were allowed to perpetuate itself in the disobedient there. In that sense, think of hell as an isolation unit for those who are terminally ill with a contagious disease.

I do not believe that the descriptions of hell from Scripture are intended to be taken literally. God is not in the habit of torturing people in fire for all eternity. The imagery (darkness, filthy burning garbage dump, lake of fire/lava, grave worms, etc) is designed to evoke a primal response of revulsion in those who hear of it, but was never intended to be taken literally IMO.

Darkness= separation from God (the source of all light)

Filthy garbage= describes the presence of sin, exemplified by the human sacrifice that happened in the valley of gehenna

Lake of fire/torment= constant attempts at purification and testing for purity (look up the original base meaning for the greek word translated "torment", it was originally a word used to describe testing metal that had been refined in the furnace for purity against a touchstone)... scipture indicates that they will never escape hell, therefore they will never be found pure, having rejected the only One who could make them pure.

Grave worms= death, not life

Just my thoughts, for what they're worth...

As for why it is eternal and not temporal, I am not really sure... it might have to do with the fact that sins are committed against an eternal infinite God, so sin would naturally then have an eternal infinite consequence. Perhaps someone else has a better answer to that. I waiver sometimes on eternal conscious torment (ECT) verses annihilationism, but lean ECT.

Interesting read. This actually is the best answer I have received by far regarding this topic. Thanks for sharing.
 
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aiki

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Before I begin, I understand there are different views on hell, but I only wish to discuss one....eternal conscious torment. Personally, I have started to break away from this view, but if there is any truth to it I want to discuss it. That said, for those of you who hold to this view, what purpose do you see in the design of such a place? Throughout scripture, for the most part, I can see that God has a method and reason to his laws and punishments. With that in mind, what purpose does burning someone alive in unquenchable fire for all eternity accomplish? Why did God choose fire for the punishment? Why is it forever instead of a finite amount of time? Please be respectful and on point regarding this topic.

If I steal a candy bar from the local convenience store and I get caught, what is the consequence? Thirty years in jail? No. In reflection of the relative triviality of the theft, very little will happen. I may be required to pay for the bar, or return it if possible, and I may be banned from the store or even reported to the police. But I won't see any jail time or endure anything more than some momentary embarrassment and some harsh words from the store owner. If I murder somebody, however, the consequences are far, far more grave. Why? Because the act of murder is a much more serious and terrible crime. Now, if the punishment for a crime is intended to reflect the seriousness, the heinousness, of it, what are we to understand of God's view of our sin when He punishes it with eternal, conscious torment? Clearly, our sin is much greater in its wickedness, in the depth and scope of its evilness, than we think it is. It is so bad, in fact, that it deserves the eternal punishment of Hell.

We are steeped in sin. We live and breathe it. It's all around us and we practice it in one form or another every day. Much of our sin we persist in because it is gratifying in some way and we have come to love it. Our perspective on our sin, then, is very skewed. We cannot see it clearly for the terrible, wicked thing God says it is. Instead, we think God is over-reacting to our sin. We downplay, we diminish, our own wickedness - especially when so much of it we find gratifying - and think either God is cruel and unfair in punishing us so harshly for our sin and/or that there is really no hell to worry about. Both ideas, though, are exactly what one would expect sin-steeped creatures to think.

So, why does our sin deserve the eternal torment of Hell? Well, first and most obviously, because it is a contravention of the will and command of the God of the Universe. Unfortunately, we humans have the habit of understanding everything from our own frame of reference and/or making everything in our image. Disney is a good example of what I mean. Mice, ducks, dogs, fish, toasters, ships, planes, cars - you name it, they are all made to be like us. A broom, or candlestick, or lobster has all the wit and sensitivity, and hopes and dreams that you and I do. And we conform our Creator to ourselves in much the same way. We bring Him down to our level; we make Him small enough that we can feel comfortable with Him; we shrink Him down into a neat little human-sized box and then proclaim, "God would never do that!"

But God is not like us. He made and sustains, moment-by-moment, the mind-boggling expanse of the universe and all that is within it. Pondering this takes us quickly beyond the capacities of our very limited comprehension. How can one visualize a star into which several million of our own sun could fit? And how do we conceptualize the fact that trillions upon trillions of galaxies containing such massive planetary bodies exist in the observable universe? How much more impossible, then, to try to comprehend the One who made and sustains it all? But it is this God to whom we must answer when we contravene His will and commands. And it His terrible, and awesome, and incomprehensible authority and power over the universe that, in part, makes the rebellion of our sin against Him so worthy of the eternal punishment He renders upon it.

"God is light," the Bible says, "and in Him is no darkness at all." (1Jn 1:5) We can say the words but what it means to be totally and absolutely without sin is beyond any of us. We get some sense, though, a small window in on what it means to be so holy, by seeing how absolutely and deeply God hates sin. And hate it He does! Our sin isn't just "naughty" or "unfortunate" or "mischievous," it is an abomination to God, a wicked thing with which He can have nothing to do and which He rejects utterly. And so God separates the unrepentant wicked from Himself forever as His perfectly holy character demands.

Perhaps the most significant reason why Hell is an appropriate punishment for our sin is given by the writer of Hebrews:

Hebrews 10:28-31
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. And again, "The Lord will judge His people."
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


Our sin is a deep and awful offense to God because it spurns His undeserved grace and tramples underfoot the incredible sacrifice of Christ on the cross for our sins. Every wicked thing we do cost Jesus. "He was wounded for our iniquities" the prophet Isaiah wrote. Every sin we commit is a sin for which the innocent, sinless Christ suffered the terrible wounds of Golgotha and shed his precious blood. Those who want Hell to disappear are the same people who preach "grace that is greater than all our sin" but neglect to dwell on the horrendous price of our forgiveness. As the writer of the passage above explains, however, much of the great evil of our sin is in how it disdains and insults the great love and mercy shown us by God in the work of Christ at Calvary.

As I consider these things, I am not left wondering why the eternal torment of Hell is a just response of a holy God. It is only when I have diminished - however unconsciously - God, my sin, and the enormity of the sacrifice of Jesus on my behalf that Hell starts to seem unreasonable.

Selah.
 
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juvenissun

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Before I begin, I understand there are different views on hell, but I only wish to discuss one....eternal conscious torment. Personally, I have started to break away from this view, but if there is any truth to it I want to discuss it. That said, for those of you who hold to this view, what purpose do you see in the design of such a place? Throughout scripture, for the most part, I can see that God has a method and reason to his laws and punishments. With that in mind, what purpose does burning someone alive in unquenchable fire for all eternity accomplish? Why did God choose fire for the punishment? Why is it forever instead of a finite amount of time? Please be respectful and on point regarding this topic.

A place for the worst beings in God's eyes.
What is wrong with that?
 
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ScottA

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Before I begin, I understand there are different views on hell, but I only wish to discuss one....eternal conscious torment. Personally, I have started to break away from this view, but if there is any truth to it I want to discuss it. That said, for those of you who hold to this view, what purpose do you see in the design of such a place? Throughout scripture, for the most part, I can see that God has a method and reason to his laws and punishments. With that in mind, what purpose does burning someone alive in unquenchable fire for all eternity accomplish? Why did God choose fire for the punishment? Why is it forever instead of a finite amount of time? Please be respectful and on point regarding this topic.
Our perception of time is the problem. We equate eternal matters as if they were on a timeline...and they are not.

The messages of the Bible are geared for time-bound creatures such as ourselves, but something gets lost in translation. The more correct way to understand it, is to take to heart just what it is that "forever" means. The descriptions are bad enough (as you have noted), but they don't even begin to do it justice.

So...how would YOU go about putting the severity of "forever" into words? Would you just say, "When it's over, it's over." and leave it at that, or would you get all emotional? Our Author, chose to be poetic, graphic, and animated - but hey, we are talking about FOREVER!

But, in any case...forever does not burn on a rotisserie, so you can relax.
 
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Snark

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If we consider it, hypothetically, as possibly being possible, it would seem to be a form of punishment; and, from what I understand, there are essentially three reasons for punishing a person:
1) Anger/retribution
2) As a deterrent, to show others that such behaviour is wrong
3) To teach the person a lesson so they won't repeat the behaviour.

In the context of "Hell", the person's life is over, so #3 doesn't apply.

#3 is also a problem, in that sin (disbelief) is not a conscious act.

As we have no demonstrable evidence for the existence of a biblical "Hell", or that anyone has gone there, #2 doesn't apply.

So that leaves us with #1. If Hell exists, then this [hypothetical] God sends people there out of his own vengeance, for something beyond their control.

Why fire? Fire is scary. Why forever? It sounds scarier than not forever.

Hypothetically, #2 could also be possible. It could be in the gospels etc. specifically to act as a deterrent.

But if anything that's worse for me.

Because it means that the Christian God believes that eternal torment is justified for the 'crime' of refusing to submit to him and is hoping to scare wavers into submission. There's no free will there. "Obey me or I will torture you" is not a free choice.

Nor is it compatible with any idea of "all loving" I can define nor my idea of what can be considered moral. It certainly wouldn't be considered so if it wasn't a religious claim.

There's only two main ways out for Christians who believe in a literal hell.

They can argue that our human conception of morality simply doesn't apply to God. Which kinda solves the issue, but raises bigger problems. Because any deity outside the norms of morality in that way is simply unfathomable. We certainly can't claim to know that he loves us.

The other possibility is to define hell as "separation from God" rather than active torment. That's a lot more moral, but it loses the deterrent effect as only a Christian would consider that a threat in the first place. But I find it the most consistent combination with the Christian conception of God.
 
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aiki

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Because it means that the Christian God believes that eternal torment is justified for the 'crime' of refusing to submit to him and is hoping to scare wavers into submission. There's no free will there. "Obey me or I will torture you" is not a free choice.

Nor is it compatible with any idea of "all loving" I can define nor my idea of what can be considered moral. It certainly wouldn't be considered so if it wasn't a religious claim.

If the choice between an eternity with God or eternal torment in hell wasn't a free one, everyone would be a Christian! But multi-millions of people freely choose to turn their back on their Creator and spurn His grace and mercy every day. I think what you're really objecting to is that the choice is not consequence-free.

God is not "all-loving." The Bible teaches very clearly that God hates sin.

All human morality, the Bible teaches, is corrupted by self-centeredness and sin. However noble and right you think your conception of sin is, it does not even begin to compare with the perfect holiness of your Maker. But thinking that God is somehow subject to your morality and judgment is a perfect example of how humans always work to diminish God, to put Him in a box that is under their control. But as C.S. Lewis wrote, "He is not a tame lion."

Selah.
 
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aiki

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The other possibility is to define hell as "separation from God" rather than active torment. That's a lot more moral, but it loses the deterrent effect as only a Christian would consider that a threat in the first place. But I find it the most consistent combination with the Christian conception of God.

Hell is clearly described as conscious torment. It is also separation from God, yes, but the Bible paints a very vivid picture of Hell as a place of intense unpleasantness.

Selah.
 
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food4thought

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Hypothetically, #2 could also be possible. It could be in the gospels etc. specifically to act as a deterrent.

But if anything that's worse for me.

Because it means that the Christian God believes that eternal torment is justified for the 'crime' of refusing to submit to him and is hoping to scare wavers into submission. There's no free will there. "Obey me or I will torture you" is not a free choice.

Nor is it compatible with any idea of "all loving" I can define nor my idea of what can be considered moral. It certainly wouldn't be considered so if it wasn't a religious claim.

There's only two main ways out for Christians who believe in a literal hell.

They can argue that our human conception of morality simply doesn't apply to God. Which kinda solves the issue, but raises bigger problems. Because any deity outside the norms of morality in that way is simply unfathomable. We certainly can't claim to know that he loves us.

The other possibility is to define hell as "separation from God" rather than active torment. That's a lot more moral, but it loses the deterrent effect as only a Christian would consider that a threat in the first place. But I find it the most consistent combination with the Christian conception of God.

Hi Snark;

Did you read my post (post #4)? I believe it answers your main objections. "Torment" is, perhaps, a very poor translation of the greek word in this case. It is true that the greek word came to be associated with Roman interogation methods, but it literally means "to be tried against the touchstone". This is a metalworking word, which deals with precious metals that have been refined in fire being taken out of the fire and rubbed against a specific kind of smooth stone... the metalworker would know when the the impurities had been refined out of the metal by the mark the metal would leave on the touchstone.

In this context, the greek word woud be better translated as "tested", not "tormented". Still, hell is not a place that anyone would want to go to, so the primal revulsion the descriptions in the Bible give us is appropriate. And again, I have to point out that the Bible makes it clear that the unsaved will never be found pure, because the only way to be cleansed from our unrighteousness is through being reborn of the Holy Spirit through faith in Jesus Christ during this life.

To summarize: hell, gehenna, the lake of fire is a place where the unrepentant will be sent to seperate them from God, and keep heaven from being contaminated by sin. In this place, in some way the unsaved will be refined in an attempt to remove their unrighteousness, then they will be "tested against the touchstone" of God's righteousness; found wanting, they will be further attempts to refine them before being tested again, ad infinitum. In this way, the righteous judgment of God against them will be continually proven just by their failure to be made pure.

If you think about it, this life is much the same, as we are placed in the refigning fire and pressure of various trials, which reveals our flawed character, showing us our need for a Savior. In this life we can be made pure in God's sight by receiving Jesus Christ's perfect righteousness in place of our own by faith. Either your sin can be judged at the cross, or it will be judged by God at the end. One way or another, every single sin will be accounted for by a holy, all knowing, perfectly moral, and perfectly just God.

Hope this helps...
 
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aiki

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It is a hermeneutical fallacy to think that the root meaning of a word is always directly related to, or directly defines, its common usage. Words and their meanings change over time - often very rapidly - so it is not as important to know the root meaning of a word in the Bible as it is to know what its commonly understood meaning was and the way it was typically used in everyday speech. Be very skeptical of the argument that tries to squirm around the import of a word or passage by way of this fallacy.

Selah.
 
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food4thought

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It is a hermeneutical fallacy to think that the root meaning of a word is always directly related to, or directly defines, its common usage. Words and their meanings change over time - often very rapidly - so it is not as important to know the root meaning of a word in the Bible as it is to know what its commonly understood meaning was and the way it was typically used in everyday speech. Be very skeptical of the argument that tries to squirm around the import of a word or passage by way of this fallacy.

Selah.

Thank you aiki. I agree with your statement, but must point out that the usage of the word in the context of judgment and fire is reason enough for me to explore the possibility that the author had the original meaning in mind. The conclusion I came to from my exploration is much more in line with the idea of a perfectly moral, not to mention loving and merciful, God that the Bible describes.

Hope this helps...
 
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Davian

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Hypothetically, #2 could also be possible. It could be in the gospels etc. specifically to act as a deterrent.
I don't see it as a deterrent, any more than the threat of a lump of coal in my stocking of December 25th will somehow better my behaviour. Fiction does not frighten me.
But if anything that's worse for me.

Because it means that the Christian God believes that eternal torment is justified for the 'crime' of refusing to submit to him and is hoping to scare wavers into submission. There's no free will there. "Obey me or I will torture you" is not a free choice.
Indeed. Even if I thought there might be something to all of this religion stuff, I cannot simply decide to believe it to be real in the the absence of compelling evidence.

The implication there is that if one is 'sent to Hell' for reasons of disbelief, it means that "God" is punishing people for reasons beyond their control. In common terms, that would be morally bankrupt.
Nor is it compatible with any idea of "all loving" I can define nor my idea of what can be considered moral. It certainly wouldn't be considered so if it wasn't a religious claim.

There's only two main ways out for Christians who believe in a literal hell.

They can argue that our human conception of morality simply doesn't apply to God. Which kinda solves the issue, but raises bigger problems. Because any deity outside the norms of morality in that way is simply unfathomable. We certainly can't claim to know that he loves us.
And that refutes the notion that Christianity is about justice and morality. Hypothetically, serial killers can go to heaven, while disbelievers, or those that believe in a different god, go to Hell.
The other possibility is to define hell as "separation from God" rather than active torment. That's a lot more moral, but it loses the deterrent effect as only a Christian would consider that a threat in the first place. But I find it the most consistent combination with the Christian conception of God.
The most consistent thing I find is to consider it all fiction.
 
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Tree of Life

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Before I begin, I understand there are different views on hell, but I only wish to discuss one....eternal conscious torment. Personally, I have started to break away from this view, but if there is any truth to it I want to discuss it. That said, for those of you who hold to this view, what purpose do you see in the design of such a place? Throughout scripture, for the most part, I can see that God has a method and reason to his laws and punishments. With that in mind, what purpose does burning someone alive in unquenchable fire for all eternity accomplish? Why did God choose fire for the punishment? Why is it forever instead of a finite amount of time? Please be respectful and on point regarding this topic.

"Fire" is probably not literal but a metaphor for something far worse. Any guesses as to the purpose of an eternal hell will be pure speculation since Scripture does not say. The only reason to believe in eternal, conscious torment is that Scripture seems to put forward such an idea.
 
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zippy2006

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With that in mind, what purpose does burning someone alive in unquenchable fire for all eternity accomplish?

I would say that it shows forth God's justice and acts as a deterrent for others.

Why did God choose fire for the punishment?

Fire is metaphorical. In truth being separated from the source of all love is much worse than fire.

Why is it forever instead of a finite amount of time?

Mortal sin is much like suicide. The man who commits suicide could spend only a second committing the sin, and yet the temporal effects are "eternal" with respect to his life. He has destroyed the very principle by which he has life. "Why is it that when I spend only a moment cutting the cord, the chandelier goes dark forever?" The proper effect of the act is for the chandelier to go dark forever, for the natural life to be snuffed out, for the eternal source of life within us to be destroyed. That is why these acts are so significant.

See ST Ia Iae, Q 87, A3
 
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aiki

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Any guesses as to the purpose of an eternal hell will be pure speculation since Scripture does not say.

Actually, the Bible is very clear about the purpose of hell:

Matthew 25:41-46
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'
44 Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?'
45 Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."


In this passage it is quite plain that hell is intended both to separate the sinner from God ("Depart from me...") and to punish the sinner ("...go away into everlasting punishment...").

Selah.
 
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Tree of Life

Hide The Pain
Feb 15, 2013
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Actually, the Bible is very clear about the purpose of hell:

Matthew 25:41-46
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'
44 Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?'
45 Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."


In this passage it is quite plain that hell is intended both to separate the sinner from God ("Depart from me...") and to punish the sinner ("...go away into everlasting punishment...").

Selah.

Indeed. But the question was: "why is eternal, conscious torment necessary to separate people from God". Presumably annihilation would do the trick as well. So why the former and not the latter?
 
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