What is the point of marriage?

mkgal1 · Jun 25, 2014

Right. But......I really believe that in most cases that's typically due to long-term and unresolved issues in the marriage.

Have you heard how the sexual relationship can be used as a sort of barometer of the health of the marriage? Lots of issues that aren't even in the forefront come out in that area (if both are physically healthy, I mean). How many times have we heard on forums like this where the guy gets "blindsided" by divorce papers? I doubt women are waking up and just want a little change in their life to make it more exciting, so they head off to the courthouse or attorney's office to file.

Inkachu · Jun 25, 2014

mkgal1 said:
Right. But......I really believe that in most cases that's typically due to long-term and unresolved issues in the marriage.

Have you heard how the sexual relationship can be used as a sort of barometer of the health of the marriage? Lots of issues that aren't even in the forefront come out in that area (if both are physically healthy, I mean). How many times have we heard on forums like this where the guy gets "blindsided" by divorce papers? I doubt women are waking up and just want a little change in their life to make it more exciting, so they head off to the courthouse or attorney's office to file.

Are you talking about mutually going without sex or one spouse rejecting the other?

mkgal1 · Jun 25, 2014

Inkachu said:
Are you talking about mutually going without sex or one spouse rejecting the other?

I'm talking about one spouse rejecting the other by not hearing their concerns....and that affecting the sexual relationship (that's one scenario). I don't see that as "sexual rejection" because the bond between them has been severed by the lack of concern....lack of empathy....lack of love.

There's another scenario where a person uses sex as a weapon to get their way (or to punish instead of facing conflicts). That's what I call "sexual rejection". That's passive aggressive behavior---and it's wrong.

I see those as two distinct scenarios that often get conflated in the discussion.

russianorth · Jun 25, 2014

mkgal1 said:
I'm talking about one spouse rejecting the other by not hearing their concerns....and that affecting the sexual relationship (that's one scenario). I don't see that as "sexual rejection" because the bond between them has been severed by the lack of concern....lack of empathy....lack of love.

There's another scenario where a person uses sex as a weapon to get their way (or to punish instead of facing conflicts). That's what I call "sexual rejection". That's passive aggressive behavior---and it's wrong.

I see those as two distinct scenarios that often get conflated in the discussion.

Men dont love or empathize the same way women do so when a man is a man and a woman then says well he is being mean and withholds sex its still refusal and still leads to failure of the relationship if the sex is not resumed. Because his mood will further deteriorate as the refusal goes on.

Hetta · Jun 25, 2014

russianorth said:
Men dont love or empathize the same way women do so when a man is a man and a woman then says well he is being mean and withholds sex its still refusal and still leads to failure of the relationship if the sex is not resumed. Because his mood will further deteriorate as the refusal goes on.

Oh please.

Sex at gunpoint.

mkgal1 · Jun 25, 2014

russianorth said:
Men dont love or empathize the same way women do so when a man is a man and a woman then says well he is being mean and withholds sex its still refusal and still leads to failure of the relationship if the sex is not resumed. Because his mood will further deteriorate as the refusal goes on.

...and therein lies the problem.

We---as a culture---have bought into that lie. That's just what it is---a lie. Men *can* love and empathize in the same way women can. Do you see anywhere in the Bible where it mentions "love like Christ loves" (uh....which BTW....Christ *was* fully man as well as fully God, so to say "love like Christ" *is* asking men to "love like a man") that there is a division for men and women? For instance:

for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true)~Ephesians 5

and

Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience.~Colossians 3:12

No where (that I've seen) does it say that men have some sort of gender handicap when it comes to kindness and empathy (all parts of love).

seeingeyes · Jun 25, 2014

russianorth said:
Men dont love or empathize the same way women do.

Not even a little true.

mkgal1 · Jun 25, 2014

Maybe that's a good dating question, Leo?

I'm not good at figuring out tactful ways to phrase things......maybe someone else can come up with that. It does seem to be a question that reveals much (whether or not a man believes in a male handicap when it comes to love and empathy.....compassion).

russianorth · Jun 25, 2014

The type of behavior you are advocating is generally viewed as weakness in the dating world. Do you expect men to just flip a switch becuase you have now picked him and are in a relationship?

Girly men who are in touch with their woman side dont ever leave the friend zone so what you are asking for is a catch 22.

Jesus flipped over tables and called Peter satan. Jesus was not a pandering girly man. Yes he was compasonate and loving but not in the way you framed it.

Hetta · Jun 25, 2014

Jesus flipped over tables and called Peter satan. Jesus was not a pandering girly man. Yes he was compasonate and loving but not in the way you framed it.

Do you only know this one thing about Jesus?

Noted that you think that a man who empathizes is a "girly man."

Have you even considered that your attitude is the reason that you have relationship problems, or is always going to be the woman's fault - no matter how many different women you date and end up having the same problems. ISTM that at some point, someone who has some kind of clue might try looking within him or herself instead of constantly pointing a finger outwards.

Hetta · Jun 25, 2014

Girly men who are in touch with their woman side dont ever leave the friend zone so what you are asking for is a catch 22.

My husband is not a girly man but he is compassionate and tender. My boys can also be that way. So, perhaps you should consider that this is something missing in you, and not in all men.

mkgal1 · Jun 25, 2014

russianorth said:
The type of behavior you are advocating is generally viewed as weakness in the dating world. Do you expect men to just flip a switch becuase you have now picked him and are in a relationship?

Girly men who are in touch with their woman side dont ever leave the friend zone so what you are asking for is a catch 22.

Jesus flipped over tables and called Peter satan. Jesus was not a pandering girly man. Yes he was compasonate and loving but not in the way you framed it.

Thank God I'm not in the dating world now, then.

However....my daughter is.....and oddly enough, she found a guy that wouldn't be considered a "girly man" by any means....however, he *does* demonstrate empathy and kindness (and a keen sense when it comes to noticing when something is bothering my daughter). And get this......he listens to her.....and seems to want to talk things out as well.

The description of the Fruit of the Spirit in the Bible (how I framed things earlier....not my own words) doesn't say that's only for women ("girly side"). That's a HUMAN side....one that's not void of emotion.

BTW.....when Jesus flipped over tables.....it wasn't a rage. He was there the prior day and did nothing. It seems that He "slept on it" and gave it some consideration. He's really the only one that had the authority to do that. That's the other side of love......we have to hate evil as well (like my signature verse says). That's not manly.......it's for women as well.

mkgal1 · Jun 25, 2014

This man's mission is to help "reconnect" boys hearts with their brains (empathy).

I don't see him as a "girly man" at all. I thank God he's using his voice and knowledge:

Be A Man: Joe Ehrmann at TEDxBaltimore 2013 - YouTube

Hetta · Jun 25, 2014

mkgal1 said:
Thank God I'm not in the dating world now, then.

However....my daughter is.....and oddly enough, she found a guy that wouldn't be considered a "girly man" by any means....however, he *does* demonstrate empathy and kindness (and a keen sense when it comes to noticing when something is bothering my daughter). And get this......he listens to her.....and seems to want to talk things out as well.

The Fruit of the Spirit described in the Bible (how I framed things earlier....not my own words) don't say that's only for women ("girly side"). That's a HUMAN side....one that's not void of emotion.

BTW.....when Jesus flipped over tables.....it wasn't a rage. He was there the prior day and did nothing. It seems that He "slept on it" and gave it some consideration. He's really the only one that had the authority to do that. That's the other side of love......we have to hate evil as well (like my signature verse says). That's not manly.......it's for women as well.

Wonderful MKGal.

iambren · Jun 25, 2014

"I don't base my marriage on if or when my husband tells me I am beautiful, and I don't consider sex to be based upon that. I also don't base my identity on my sexuality. I'm a lot more than a body 'in heat'."

Sorry,Hetta,I don't buy it. If you are saying that if your husband stopped complimenting you, or being turned on by you and it didn't affect your sense of emotional wellbeing or your IDENTITY as a wife you don't have a marriage....maybe a weak friendship. No,you would probably have that knot in your stomach that wonders "who else is he with?".

"I agree with Hetta---that's not a healthy thing. That sounds more like some sort of bondage (not fetish bondage.....but something our enemy has a hold on due to believing some sort of lie). Any time we are dependent on something besides God and His provision.....there's that possibility of becoming bound. "

Yet marriage IS a bond,you are in bondage to your husband! In our marital bonds we are called to be fruitful (identity),to depend on love and sexual love to keep that bond stable,procuring food water etc. Sex was not just an add-on,but something integral to the oneness a man and woman have in reflecting the image of God.

russianorth · Jun 26, 2014

mkgal1 said:
This man's mission is to help "reconnect" boys hearts with their brains (empathy).

I don't see him as a "girly man" at all. I thank God he's using his voice and knowledge:

Be A Man: Joe Ehrmann at TEDxBaltimore 2013 - YouTube

That's nice except women don't respond to men who cry or act weak. Women want strength, security, provision, etc. So they can preach all they want but until women start responding differently men are going to keep acting like douches.

Annessa3 · Jun 26, 2014

russianorth said:
men are going to keep acting like douches.

that kinda sez it, eh?
at least you're recognizing it

Inkachu · Jun 26, 2014

russianorth said:
That's nice except women don't respond to men who cry or act weak. Women want strength, security, provision, etc. So they can preach all they want but until women start responding differently men are going to keep acting like douches.

Crying isn't weakness. It's humanity. I want a man who acts like a human being. There's a big difference between a man who blubbers uncontrollably at the drop of a hat, and one who can show he has a heart and feelings and can express sadness or pain with dignity. My hubby cries now and then, and it makes me admire and love him all the more. So take the "preach all they want" nonsense and toss it.

Hetta · Jun 26, 2014

russianorth said:
That's nice except women don't respond to men who cry or act weak. Women want strength, security, provision, etc. So they can preach all they want but until women start responding differently men are going to keep acting like douches.

You don't know "women" - just the ones you have chosen and discarded for the reasons you chose and discarded them.

Hetta · Jun 26, 2014

iambren said:
Sorry,Hetta,I don't buy it. If you are saying that if your husband stopped complimenting you, or being turned on by you and it didn't affect your sense of emotional wellbeing or your IDENTITY as a wife you don't have a marriage....maybe a weak friendship. No,you would probably have that knot in your stomach that wonders "who else is he with?".

*Shrug*. You don't know me or my husband so it doesn't really bother me what you think, but for someone who is divorced to be lecturing those who are happily married about how their marriage will fail is quite an irony. I wonder sometimes whether there is a lot of jealousy involved, or a desire to see their marriages fail also. But that won't be happening, so.

What is the point of marriage?

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