What is the pillar and foundation of truth?

[WPDP]

When I was asked this question my answer was the Bible. The Bible is our sole authority so it has to be the pillar and foundation of truth. "Wrong answer," a friend replied. So what does the Bible say is our pillar and foundation of truth? My next response was "Jesus Christ, his life and teachings are our foundation because Jesus is the chief cornerstone." Wrong again! So what does the Bible say?

In 1 Timothy, Paul is giving instruction on the church organization to Timothy, and in 1 Tim 3:15 scripture tells us the CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of truth... Interesting...

I think Paul could have given a better answer. Sure he was giving instruction to Timothy on church organization. He was probably trying to impress Timothy on how important this work was. However Paul was wrong in saying the Church was the pillar and foundation of truth. Paul really meant to say the Bible was our pillar and foundation of truth. Don't you agree?

 

[BBAS 64]

When I was asked this question my answer was the Bible. The Bible is our sole authority so it has to be the pillar and foundation of truth. "Wrong answer," a friend replied. So what does the Bible say is our pillar and foundation of truth? My next response was "Jesus Christ, his life and teachings are our foundation because Jesus is the chief cornerstone." Wrong again! So what does the Bible say?

In 1 Timothy, Paul is giving instruction on the church organization to Timothy, and in 1 Tim 3:15 scripture tells us the CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of truth... Interesting...

I think Paul could have given a better answer. Sure he was giving instruction to Timothy on church organization. He was probably trying to impress Timothy on how important this work was. However Paul was wrong in saying the Church was the pillar and foundation of truth. Paul really meant to say the Bible was our pillar and foundation of truth. Don't you agree?

Good Day,

No I disagree Paul was correct the church is the pillar and foundation....

The Bible is our sole authority for matters of Faith. You are confusing 2 differnet things.

Pillars and foundations hold things up....


In Him,

Bill

 

[JM]

The pillar and foundation is the church. The church is built on apostolic doctrine, preaching and teaching. Apostolic doctrine is found in scripture.

There are no apostles living today.

 

[JM]

The pillar and foundation is the church. The church is built on apostolic doctrine, preaching and teaching. Apostolic doctrine is found in scripture.

There are no apostles living today.

 

[WPDP]

BBAS so you are saying that the church is charged with being a pillar and foundation. It is only a pillar and foundation when it actually does what the Bible says. So the church being the pillar and foundation of truth is a conditional statement... Did Paul really mean to say that the church is supposed to hold up the Bible? If so, wouldn't he just be stating the obvious?

Somehow I don't think Paul is putting any conditions on his statement. He says the church is the pillar and foundation of truth, period. Paul's statement gives authority to the church, and makes it's interpretation of the scriptures superior to private interpretation. It also begs the question, which church was Paul referring to? Sure he was referring to Baptists, but who else?

 

[jamantc]

It also begs the question, which church was Paul referring to? Sure he was referring to Baptists, but who else?

Which Baptist? There are many Baptist branches and even if you narrowed it to the SBC, then it would be which SBC branch, the Reformed Augustine (since this is what Calvinism is) SBC or the more Liberal Semi-Pelagian Baptist (since this is what Arminianism is)? Just curious. The true church that is the pillar and foundation of truth is the one that contains believers and believers only in spirit since the physical church is corrupt and preaches to itchy ears and the desires of men and is afraid of the truth according to scripture

 

[clark thompson]

The church is the foundation the truth of the word is built on, those who accept the Word are a part of the church. One is not a part of the true church without beliving the word and Jesus.

 

[concretecamper]

Paul was referring to the only Christian Church in existence at that time. He was not prophesizing about what would be. He was telling Timothy what is. It takes a lot of gymnastics to explain Paul mean anything else. And remember, he said the Church, not churches.

 

[concretecamper]

The church is the foundation the truth of the word is built on, those who accept the Word are a part of the church. One is not a part of the true church without beliving the word and Jesus.

Please show me where in the Bible does it say that all who accept the Word are part of the church.

 

[BBAS 64]

BBAS so you are saying that the church is charged with being a pillar and foundation. It is only a pillar and foundation when it actually does what the Bible says. So the church being the pillar and foundation of truth is a conditional statement... Did Paul really mean to say that the church is supposed to hold up the Bible? If so, wouldn't he just be stating the obvious?

Somehow I don't think Paul is putting any conditions on his statement. He says the church is the pillar and foundation of truth, period. Paul's statement gives authority to the church, and makes it's interpretation of the scriptures superior to private interpretation. It also begs the question, which church was Paul referring to? Sure he was referring to Baptists, but who else?

Good Day, WPDP

You pack alot of meaning into the phase "pillar and Foundation" with out merit or reason.

You are sounding like a memeber of the Roman Catholic denomination.

What would appear to be obvious to us to today may not of been so obvious in the day it was written. The church uphold the truth that the scripture contains. Remember you are reading scripture that which is breathed out by God.

Read the context, "I am writting these things to you" what things"?

Any church (Roman or other wise) can say they have interprerted the scripture, but your interpretation of what they say is your own private interpretation. That does not solve your issue.

Who deneyies the chuch has authority... The church is under the authority of that which is God breathed and has always been.

I am defining the Church in the Historical meaning of the christian church:

Augustine – The Church is the realm of Christ, His mystical body and His bride, the Mother of Christians. He also speaks of an inner and outer church, and the difficulty of telling from appearances who are members of this true church (the "enclosed garden spring shut up, fountain sealed, the paradise with the fruit of apples) who are the elect, and belong to the "invisible fellowship of love"

In Him,

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

Paul was referring to the only Christian Church in existence at that time. He was not prophesizing about what would be. He was telling Timothy what is. It takes a lot of gymnastics to explain Paul mean anything else. And remember, he said the Church, not churches.

Good Day,

Chruch singular because it is addressed to a singular person as how to conduct himself in the church. The grammer does not allow for anything other than singular (church)

But Paul knew there were many churches of Christ

Rom 6:16 Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ greet you.

In Him,

Bill

 

[concretecamper]

Good Day,

Chruch singular because it is addressed to a singular person as how to conduct himself in the church. The grammer does not allow for anything other than singular (church)

But Paul knew there were many churches of Christ

Rom 6:16 Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ greet you.

In Him,

Bill

You make my point very well, Paul could have said churches if he wanted to. BTW....Romans 6:16 doesn't say anything close to what you quoted?

 

[BBAS 64]

You make my point very well, Paul could have said churches if he wanted to. BTW....Romans 6:16 doesn't say anything close to what you quoted?

Good Day, concretecamper


I will stick to my org. post...... sorry Rom 16:16

 

[Albion]

When I was asked this question my answer was the Bible. The Bible is our sole authority so it has to be the pillar and foundation of truth. "Wrong answer," a friend replied. So what does the Bible say is our pillar and foundation of truth? My next response was "Jesus Christ, his life and teachings are our foundation because Jesus is the chief cornerstone." Wrong again! So what does the Bible say?

In 1 Timothy, Paul is giving instruction on the church organization to Timothy, and in 1 Tim 3:15 scripture tells us the CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of truth... Interesting...

I think Paul could have given a better answer. Sure he was giving instruction to Timothy on church organization. He was probably trying to impress Timothy on how important this work was. However Paul was wrong in saying the Church was the pillar and foundation of truth. Paul really meant to say the Bible was our pillar and foundation of truth. Don't you agree?

No. Paul was right, but you have to consider what you are talking about. Of course the Bible is the word of God and our guide to his will and intentions for us. But when Paul speaks of the church, he's obviously speaking of something other than the ultimate source of truth; he's speaking of the believers and saying that it is us--the people of God--who are the pillars and the foundation that hold up and keep alive that truth on a daily basis. We're the Lord's hands and feet in the physical world, you might say.

There really isn't any problem here, if we think closely about what a pillar and a foundation do.

Did Paul really mean to say that the church is supposed to hold up the Bible? If so, wouldn't he just be stating the obvious?

I don't think so. The early Christians probably had a tendency to think of themselves as alone to face the world without Christ and looking always towards the second coming and the end of the age. Paul seems to be saying "I'm counting on you. You are the ones who keep Christ's work and his truth advancing." A word of reassurance may be considered obvious in it's message, but sometimes it's really important to hear it said.

 

[concretecamper]

Read the entire chapter in context. Paul is instructing Timothy on how people should behave. He is writing to them because if he is late, they should know how to behave. Behave where? Behave in the household of God...and he defines the household of God as the Church.....and he defines the Church as the pillar and foundation of truth. Remember, to Paul, the was no new testament. Who did Paul call me he pillar of truth....not the future bible....but the Church.

Th OP raise a great question. I would encourage the OP to read the early church fathers. Specifically, one should read Ignatius of Antioch. He was a disciple of St John the Apostle. Read what the early Church fathers wrote.....take their word for it, not mine or some other posters.

 

[JM]

The Baptist Community-a forum for all Baptists to discuss and fellowship.

A few things to know about what Baptists believe:

1. The Believers Baptism (credobaptism) – We believe that baptism should be by immersion and that it is an outward symbol of of an inward change that has already occurred.
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2. The Priesthood of the believer - Our High Priest is Jesus Christ, our sole Mediator between man and God. Each believer can go to the throne of God via prayer for grace and mercy.
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3. The 66 Books comprising the Scriptures are given by the verbal inspiration of God, and as such are the only and all sufficient, authoritative rule of faith. Given their divine origins, the Scriptures are without error as originally given.
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4. The Lord’s Supper is an ordinance (one of two ordinances), done in remembrance of the sacrifice Jesus Christ made for us at the cross.
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5. Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. While both free will and deterministic understandings of the gospel are espoused by various Baptists, human works play no part in a person's redemption.
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To learn more about what Baptists believe please see Baptist Distinctives


House Rules-
All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules found here (Community Rules). In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against it's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic.

 

[JM]

Read the entire chapter in context. Paul is instructing Timothy on how people should behave. He is writing to them because if he is late, they should know how to behave. Behave where? Behave in the household of God...and he defines the household of God as the Church.....and he defines the Church as the pillar and foundation of truth. Remember, to Paul, the was no new testament. Who did Paul call me he pillar of truth....not the future bible....but the Church.

Th OP raise a great question. I would encourage the OP to read the early church fathers. Specifically, one should read Ignatius of Antioch. He was a disciple of St John the Apostle. Read what the early Church fathers wrote.....take their word for it, not mine or some other posters.

I posted the rules to remind you and other RC's that Roman doctrine cannot be promoted in the Baptist forum.

The pillar and ground of truth is the church. The church believed apostolic doctrine found in their preaching and teaching. The Bible contains apostolic preaching and teaching. The pillar and ground of truth remains where apostolic doctrine is taught, that is, where scripture is taught.

What to know what the pillar and ground of truth taught in the first 100 years after the Resurrection of Christ? Read your Bible. You can search the writings of the early church fathers to see what was taught but the Bible is god breathed, tradition is never said to be...

For those interested try The Apostles Doctrine preached by Dr. Martyn Lloyd-Jones.

jm

 

[jamantc]

Martyn Lloyd-Jones is a great author! Love reading his works on the doctrines and teachings of the Bible.

 

[BBAS 64]

Read the entire chapter in context. Paul is instructing Timothy on how people should behave. He is writing to them because if he is late, they should know how to behave. Behave where? Behave in the household of God...and he defines the household of God as the Church.....and he defines the Church as the pillar and foundation of truth. Remember, to Paul, the was no new testament. Who did Paul call me he pillar of truth....not the future bible....but the Church.

Th OP raise a great question. I would encourage the OP to read the early church fathers. Specifically, one should read Ignatius of Antioch. He was a disciple of St John the Apostle. Read what the early Church fathers wrote.....take their word for it, not mine or some other posters.

Good day, Concretecamper

I have....

The church is the pillar and foundation of truth in that it is to up hold truth. God's word is truth (thy word is truth) that which is God breathed.

The pillar of our faith is an other question that historically has been settled for christians. I know you have other sources, but thay are not God Breathed so they lack that leval of authority.

Irenaeus

"They [heretics] gather their views from other sources than the Scriptures.We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith


Augustine

"For among the things that are plainly laid down in Scripture are to be found all matters that concern faith and the manner of life,--to wit, hope and love, of which I have spoken in the previous book. After this, when we have made ourselves to a certain extent familiar with the language of Scripture, we may proceed to open up and investigate the obscure passages, and in doing so draw examples from the plainer expressions to throw light upon the more obscure, and use the evidence of passages about which there is no doubt to remove all hesitation in regard to the doubtful passages." - Augustine (On Christian Doctrine, 2:9)


In Him,

Bill

 

[concretecamper]

Good day, Concretecamper

I have....

The church is the pillar and foundation of truth in that it is to up hold truth. God's word is truth (thy word is truth) that which is God breathed.

The pillar of our faith is an other question that historically has been settled for christians. I know you have other sources, but thay are not God Breathed so they lack that leval of authority.

Irenaeus

"They [heretics] gather their views from other sources than the Scriptures.We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith


Augustine

"For among the things that are plainly laid down in Scripture are to be found all matters that concern faith and the manner of life,--to wit, hope and love, of which I have spoken in the previous book. After this, when we have made ourselves to a certain extent familiar with the language of Scripture, we may proceed to open up and investigate the obscure passages, and in doing so draw examples from the plainer expressions to throw light upon the more obscure, and use the evidence of passages about which there is no doubt to remove all hesitation in regard to the doubtful passages." - Augustine (On Christian Doctrine, 2:9)


In Him,

Bill

The Doctrine of the Trinity is so much more that the Divinity of Jesus. I pray you you see beyond this fact and through His Spirit come to full knowledge. God Bless.