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What is the meaning of Total Depravity?

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Clare73

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BNR32FAN said:
So rebirth precedes faith?
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Yes. . .one who is spiritually dead cannot "choose" to spiritually believe. He must be born again into eternal spiritual life to be able to make a spiritual choice of faith.

Rebirth is by the sovereign will (as unaccountable as the wind, Jn 3:6-8) of the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:3-5)
 
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Clare73

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fhansen said:
Right, they either never turned to Him to begin with, or they've turned back away from Him, failing to remain, returning to the flesh.
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Those who fail to "remain," never really turned in the first place.
It was a false move.
They were never good soil.
fhansen said:
Those, however, who persevere to the end, producing the good fruit of overcoming sin and doing good, will prove themselves to have been good soil.
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Yes, they will persevere to the end because they are good soil.

The persevering does not make the soil good.

The good soil makes the persevering.
 
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fhansen

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We know that the elect will persevere, that they're good soil-that's redundant, in fact. No one can predict their own perseverance, however, nor can they have 100% certainty that they aren't deceiving themselves about their status of election. The Westminster Confession affirms this possibility. OTOH, confidence is quite reasonably warranted if they find themselves producing good fruit: overcoming sin, doing good, giving, loving well, IOW. That's the surest way to have an assurance that our opinion is more than just that.
 
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BNR32FAN

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So how do you interpret John 12:36?

“While you have the Light, believe in the Light, so that you may become sons of Light.” These things Jesus spoke, and He went away and hid Himself from them.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12‬:‭36‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Jesus says while He is with them, these gentiles who wanted to meet Him, that they should believe so that they may become Son’s of Light. In other words believe so that they may become children of God. How do you explain this?
 
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BNR32FAN

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Clare73 said:
That is the logical consequence of the sovereigny of God (Ro 9:19-24).
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Ok so God created them in a fallen state knowing that they are incapable of meeting His expectations unless He was to intervene and enable them, then punishes them for failing to meet the expectations that He already knew that they were incapable of meeting when He created them?
 
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