What is the Foundation of Augustinian-Calvinism?

redleghunter · Oct 29, 2019

thomas15 said:
Millions have confessed and believed the "truth" as expounded by Rome. So number of "truth seekers" is not in my opinion the deciding factor. The truth is found in the Scriptures not the writings or teachings of the church or the theologians, nice as they might be. By this I don't mean that there is an absence of truth in those writings but rather they are not the bedrock of truth.

It is true that the Bible tells us that we are dead in our trespasses and sins. It is also true that the Bible teaches that life eternal is available to all that believe on the name of Jesus. It is also true that Jehovah causes the rains to fall on the righteous and unrighteous.

The Calvinists using the sledgehammer approach wants to use the concept of election to mean that certain men are set aside special for salvation. While initial salvation is a free gift, continued salvation is maintained by works. The Arminian wants to say that salvation can be awarded based on faith alone but then can be lost due to bad behavior. The truth of the matter is that both sides agree that salvation can be lost, in either system in a strictly technical sense, there is no assurance of salvation.

The end result is that the reformed will inform anyone who will listen to them that those outside of their little club of elect individuals are dammed to hell and that the Arminian free willers are not properly motivated to service. The Arminian expresses that the reformed exhibit an arrogance that comes with their self proclaimed privilege. So it goes back and forth (400 hundred years now) with no progress ever being made. The Arminian unwittingly scores a point in this game when they are accused by Calvinists of not being motivated to service because it appears to me that the "free grace theology" position (distinct from both reformed and free will) teaches that election is for service and not salvation. But that is a topic for another day.

My only point being is that there are errors on both sides and both sides resort to name calling at some point in the discussion. But back to the OP question it is very easy for a fair minded individual to see that Augustine infused some of his pre-conversion knowledge of Gnosticism into his post conversion theology. I think a really good idea for a study would be to compare and contrast what the Reformed call "general grace" with what the Arminian calls "prevenient grace". I know that John MacArthur, who I generally agree with, in his systematic theology and taking the reformed position goes to great lengths to stress that they are not the same but at the same time he places that response in his systematic by way of opinion in footnotes and not supported by any Scripture.

I believe you are confusing the terms “common grace” and what Arminians call “prevenient Grace.”

thomas15 · Oct 29, 2019

redleghunter said:
I believe you are confusing the terms “common grace” and what Arminians call “prevenient Grace.”

Why do you say that?

Humble_Disciple · Jul 15, 2021

Leighton Flowers insists that John 6:37-40 and John 15:16 apply to the original apostles only, while the New Hampshire Confession clearly says otherwise.

We believe that election is the eternal purpose of God, according to which he graciously regenerates, sanctifies, and saves sinners; that being perfectly consistent with the free agency of man, it comprehends all the means in connection with the end; that it is a most glorious display of God's sovereign goodness, being infinitely free, wise, holy and unchangeable; that it utterly excludes boasting, and promotes humility, love, prayer, praise, trust in God, and active imitation of his free mercy; that it encourages the use of means in the highest degree; that it may be ascertained by its effects in all who truly believe the gospel, that it is the foundation of Christian assurance; and that to ascertain it with regard to ourselves demands and deserves the utmost diligence.

II Tim. 1:8-9; Eph. 1:3-14; I Peter 1:1-2; Rom. 11:5-6; John 15;16; I John 4:19; II Thess. 2:13-14; Acts 13:48; John 10:16; Matt. 20:16; Acts 15:14; Ex. 33:18-19; Matt. 20:15; Eph. 1:11; Rom. 9:23-24; Jer. 31:3; Rom.11:28-29; James 1:17-18; II Tim.1:9; Rom. 11:32-36; I Cor. 1:26-31; Rom.3:27; Rom. 4:16; Col.3:12; I Cor. 3:5-7; I Cor. 15:10; I Peter 5:10; Acts 1:24; I Thess. 2:13; I Peter 2:9; Luke 18:7; John 15:16; I Thess. 2:12; II Tim. 2:10; I Cor. 9:22; Rom. 8:28-30; John 6:37-40; I Thess 1:4-10; Isa. 42:16; Rom. 11:29; II Peter 1:10-11; Phil. 3:12; Heb. 6:11
http://baptiststudiesonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/the-new-hampshire-confession-of-faith.pdf

Dr. Flowers is able to get away with this because of how ignorant many Baptists are of their own history. It's shameless how Flowers characterizes his own position as "traditionalism," while ignoring Baptist history.

Without the New Hampshire Confession, there would be no BFM. Without the 1689 London Baptist Confession, there would be no New Hampshire Confession. Reformed Baptists have been in the SBC from the beginning.

It's like he's a used car salesman, a smooth talker with a handsome face who doesn't really have much substantive to say. Leighton Flowers is the Joel Osteen of anti-Calvinism.
2 Corinthians 11:14, John 7:24, 1 Corinthians 8:2-3

I will go even further and say that Leighton Flowers is a false prophet, using his title as director of evangelism and apologetics for Texas Baptists to promote anti-Calvinism.

What kind of message does that send for evangelism? We want you to be saved as long as you don't accept Calvinism?

It seems that the SBC is evenly split between Calvinists and Arminians:
Poll: SBC pastors have 'mix of beliefs' about Calvinism - Baptist Courier

This is one of the most emotionally manipulative videos I've ever seen:

Why should we judge God by Leighton Flowers' standards rather than the Bible's standards?

Isaiah 55:8-9
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.”

1 Corinthians 2:15-16
The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, for,“Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

Romans 11:34
Who has known the mind of the Lord?
Or who has been His counselor?

There are numerous Bible verses and quotations from the church fathers supporting the five points of Calvinism. The doctrines of grace are simply a convenient way of articulating what’s already revealed in the Bible.

It’s only called “Calvinism” because John Calvin popularized the doctrines of grace, he did not originate them. It’s the same doctrines that Augustine taught against Pelagius and Luther taught against Rome.

Calvinism in the Early Church (The Doctrines of Grace taught by the Early Church Fathers) | Reformed Theology at A Puritan's Mind

What is Calvinism and is it biblical?

Humble_Disciple · Jul 16, 2021

Please let me say this again, Leighton Flowers is the Joel Osteen of anti-Calvinism. I am not going to judge Dr. Flowers or Joel Osteen's hearts, but some teachers are just a handsome face and smooth voice without much substance.

Humble_Disciple · Jul 16, 2021

I'm not here to question Leighton Flowers' salvation, since only God can judge his heart.

I'm just pointing out the apparent conflict of interest between Leighton Flowers being the head of evangelism and apologetics for Texas Baptists while also being the main promoter of anti-Calvinism on Youtube.

It sends the message that Leighton wants you to join the Baptist church, as long as you're not a Calvinist. This video, comparing Calvinists to neo-Nazis, was made by a guest on his show:

Humble_Disciple · Jul 17, 2021

Humble_Disciple · Jul 19, 2021

Martin Luther and John Calvin, in their doctrine of unconditional election, quoted Augustine more than any other theologian. Anti-Calvinists have claimed that Augustine introduced the doctrine of unconditional election into the church due to his prior Manichaeism.

Anti-Calvinists often point out the emphasis on free will in the church fathers prior to Augustine. This was to counter the Gnostics, who used our corrupted human nature as a license to sin, saying that it doesn’t matter what we do with our bodies because we’re naturally sinful anyway.

Prior to Augustine, the church fathers taught predestination and election in some form:
Calvinism in the Early Church (The Doctrines of Grace taught by the Early Church Fathers) | Reformed Theology at A Puritan's Mind

In opposition to Pelagius, who taught that humans have the natural ability to obey God apart from His grace, Augustine formulated the doctrine of unconditional election, that God predestines us according to His own good pleasure, rather than foreseen choice of faith.

Augustine formulated this doctrine, not due to Manichaeism, but due to a reading of the scriptures, especially the epistle of Romans. Augustine clarified the doctrine of election in opposition to Pelagius, just as Athanasius clarified the incarnation in opposition to Arius.

Romans 3
10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”

Romans 8:30
Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Romans 9
10 And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac 11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), 12 it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”
16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.” 18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.

Humble_Disciple · Jul 30, 2021

When Leighton Flowers says that the Bible alone is a sufficient revelation to grant people faith, that's begging the question, because how are we to discern that the Bible is God's revelation and not the Koran or the Bhagavad Gita? It's the Holy Spirit which witnesses to us that the Bible is true, which is what Calvinists mean by irresistible grace.

John 15:26
But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.

What is the Foundation of Augustinian-Calvinism?

redleghunter

Thank You Jesus!

More options

thomas15

Be Thou my vision

More options

Humble_Disciple

Well-Known Member

More options

Humble_Disciple

Well-Known Member

More options

Humble_Disciple

Well-Known Member

More options

Humble_Disciple

Well-Known Member

More options

Humble_Disciple

Well-Known Member

More options

Humble_Disciple

Well-Known Member

More options

Similar threads

What is the Foundation of Augustinian-Calvinism?

Thank You Jesus!

Be Thou my vision

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency