I was very surprised this morning when I read a new thread in the OBOB Catholic forum. As some of you might know, I have been struggling with my Catholic faith, and have decided to leave the RCC, but I haven't yet received any direction from the Holy Spirit as to which church I should join -- but it will most likely be an orthodox church of one sort or the other. I still need to learn the differences between the Oriental and Eastern Orthodox churches, but I digress.
Here is a link to the post which shocked me; it has the subject-line: "What is the Catholic Church's View on EVP?".
First of all, I had never in my life heard of 'EVP' -- which stands for the term "Electronic Voice Phenomenon" -- or the paranormal phenomena itself known by any other name, ... or anything like it, including 'TC' ('Transcommunication' with the dead), ... or any RCC teachings on the subject except what I had been taught in Catholic School as a child in the '50's - '60's that things similar to it (ouija boards, fortune telling, etc.) were condemned. I'm sure that the old traditional teaching was based upon Deuteronomy 18:10-11:
Other Bible translations use words like verse 11 of the OLD Catholic Bible, the Douay-Rheims version: "Nor charmer, nor any one that consulteth pythonic spirits, or fortune tellers, or that seeketh the truth from the dead." Other Bibles use other terms and phrases: "or who consults ghosts or spirits", "or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch", "or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer", "or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead." And, yes, I was aware of the new age practice of 'channeling familiar spirits' and 'spirit-guides', and there is even a commercial fortune-teller just a few miles from my home. But I had never heard of those latest developments -- 'EVP' and 'TC'. I have no idea when things changed, but I'm embarrassed that I've been so uninformed.
Second, since I'm just now learning about such matters, please bear with me ... and be patient and gentle, please, in correcting any mistakes I make. Anyway, apparently there are electronic recordings (I don't know whether tape- or digital-) of the voices of various dead people -- ALLEGEDLY. At the very least, it appears that there is some solid credible evidence and reputable claims that there are recordings of some faint but discernible voices in the 'white noise' of some recordings, ... whomever and wherever they are from. Without more proof of their origin -- which I'm sure will be impossible -- they could very well be demons, which is what I am strongly inclined to believe.
Third, this brings me to the teaching of the churches -- the RCC and the Orthodox. I hope I haven't been premature in posting this about the RCC without first concluding my research into the matter -- especially to confirm the accuracy of the allegations that have been made that the RCC has approved, if only to some limited degree, activities in this regard. I can't even be specific as to the extent of any such 'approval', or if it is authentic, but this has been a 'slow go' because I haven't been able to uncover any official RCC sources which the links have used to support such assertions. For example, here are a couple of links which both refer to the 'Osservatore Romano' (Italian for Roman Observer??), as a source, and one of them specifically to the issue published on November 28, 1996:
I tried to verify their source by making several attempts to search the archives on the official 'Osservatore Romano' website without any success.
By the way, regarding that thread in OBOB, I found it very odd -- even suspicious -- that the reply (post #2) to that question is from someone who had just joined two days before his post, has only 550 'blessings' and 10 'reps'. It just seems so odd that it gives me the shivers. That's why I'm not giving any blind credence to his statement that the RCC approves this, although he might actually be correct.
I'd like to hear what the Orthodox church teaches in that regard, and any other thoughts that anyone has on the subject.
Finally, I will point out that in at least some of translations of the Bible, God declares those activities to be "abominable". In that regard, I will summarize what I recently posted here:
God is immutable (unchanging) -- at least about things of morality -- but never His very character (i.e., He can't change from good to bad). He is capable of changing His mind about what He might plan to do, as with His concessions to Abraham regarding Sodom and Gomorrah, and He can change His commandments, as with the dietary laws and the punishments decreed in the Old Testatment (e.g., stoning for adultery), which were certainly changed by God as a result of the New Covenant -- and therefore Christian's are not required to list according to the Jewish laws of the Old Covenant. But none of those changes actually speak to, nor evidence in anyway, a change of God's perspective on MORALITY. If God is immutable, than whatever He clearly condemns as an "abomination" -- including such efforts to channel spirits -- MUST remain abominable forever.
Postscript: I found this article from EWTN (Eternal Word Television Network) which suggests that, at the very least, the original article is a gross exaggeration.
Incidentally, I have two assistants helping me with my research:
Your brother in Christ,
Bill Velek
Here is a link to the post which shocked me; it has the subject-line: "What is the Catholic Church's View on EVP?".
First of all, I had never in my life heard of 'EVP' -- which stands for the term "Electronic Voice Phenomenon" -- or the paranormal phenomena itself known by any other name, ... or anything like it, including 'TC' ('Transcommunication' with the dead), ... or any RCC teachings on the subject except what I had been taught in Catholic School as a child in the '50's - '60's that things similar to it (ouija boards, fortune telling, etc.) were condemned. I'm sure that the old traditional teaching was based upon Deuteronomy 18:10-11:
Let there not be found among you anyone who causes their son or daughter to pass through the fire, or practices divination, or is a soothsayer, augur, or sorcerer, ... or who casts spells, consults ghosts and spirits, or seeks oracles from the dead.
Other Bible translations use words like verse 11 of the OLD Catholic Bible, the Douay-Rheims version: "Nor charmer, nor any one that consulteth pythonic spirits, or fortune tellers, or that seeketh the truth from the dead." Other Bibles use other terms and phrases: "or who consults ghosts or spirits", "or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch", "or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer", "or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead." And, yes, I was aware of the new age practice of 'channeling familiar spirits' and 'spirit-guides', and there is even a commercial fortune-teller just a few miles from my home. But I had never heard of those latest developments -- 'EVP' and 'TC'. I have no idea when things changed, but I'm embarrassed that I've been so uninformed.
Second, since I'm just now learning about such matters, please bear with me ... and be patient and gentle, please, in correcting any mistakes I make. Anyway, apparently there are electronic recordings (I don't know whether tape- or digital-) of the voices of various dead people -- ALLEGEDLY. At the very least, it appears that there is some solid credible evidence and reputable claims that there are recordings of some faint but discernible voices in the 'white noise' of some recordings, ... whomever and wherever they are from. Without more proof of their origin -- which I'm sure will be impossible -- they could very well be demons, which is what I am strongly inclined to believe.
Third, this brings me to the teaching of the churches -- the RCC and the Orthodox. I hope I haven't been premature in posting this about the RCC without first concluding my research into the matter -- especially to confirm the accuracy of the allegations that have been made that the RCC has approved, if only to some limited degree, activities in this regard. I can't even be specific as to the extent of any such 'approval', or if it is authentic, but this has been a 'slow go' because I haven't been able to uncover any official RCC sources which the links have used to support such assertions. For example, here are a couple of links which both refer to the 'Osservatore Romano' (Italian for Roman Observer??), as a source, and one of them specifically to the issue published on November 28, 1996:
I tried to verify their source by making several attempts to search the archives on the official 'Osservatore Romano' website without any success.
By the way, regarding that thread in OBOB, I found it very odd -- even suspicious -- that the reply (post #2) to that question is from someone who had just joined two days before his post, has only 550 'blessings' and 10 'reps'. It just seems so odd that it gives me the shivers. That's why I'm not giving any blind credence to his statement that the RCC approves this, although he might actually be correct.
I'd like to hear what the Orthodox church teaches in that regard, and any other thoughts that anyone has on the subject.
Finally, I will point out that in at least some of translations of the Bible, God declares those activities to be "abominable". In that regard, I will summarize what I recently posted here:
God is immutable (unchanging) -- at least about things of morality -- but never His very character (i.e., He can't change from good to bad). He is capable of changing His mind about what He might plan to do, as with His concessions to Abraham regarding Sodom and Gomorrah, and He can change His commandments, as with the dietary laws and the punishments decreed in the Old Testatment (e.g., stoning for adultery), which were certainly changed by God as a result of the New Covenant -- and therefore Christian's are not required to list according to the Jewish laws of the Old Covenant. But none of those changes actually speak to, nor evidence in anyway, a change of God's perspective on MORALITY. If God is immutable, than whatever He clearly condemns as an "abomination" -- including such efforts to channel spirits -- MUST remain abominable forever.
Postscript: I found this article from EWTN (Eternal Word Television Network) which suggests that, at the very least, the original article is a gross exaggeration.
Incidentally, I have two assistants helping me with my research:
Your brother in Christ,
Bill Velek
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