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What is the definition of the word of God?

RC_NewProtestants

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As the new Quarter brings the lesson study on the authority of the Bible and uses the term "word of God" many times, what does that term mean to you?

The obvious first answer will be that word of God refers to messages of God delivered to someone, but how does that work with the rest of the Bible which contains lists of genealogies and historical type information about Israel and other nations. Are those things the word of God also? Where does the writer fit into all this? For instance the Psalmist talks about dashing the heads of babies into rocks, is that the word of God? What do we do with the thus saith the Lord statements, are they instructions that must be obeyed for all followers of God?

So how do you define "word of God"?
 

DrStupid_Ben

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I would say that the verbal inspiration theory is inadequate. I like what Ellen White has to say about inspiration in "Selected Messages" (I think it's in the 2nd book).
She says that God inspired the human writters, but it is written in the humans own words. She says more, but I don't have the resourses infront of me.

I think that to some, the word of God would mean the verbal, spoken word.
 
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RC_NewProtestants

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This is probably what you are referring too:
The Bible is written by inspired men, but it is not God’s mode of thought and expression. It is that of humanity. God, as a writer, is not represented. Men will often say such an expression
is not like God. But God has not put Himself in words, in logic, in rhetoric, on trial in the Bible. The writers of the Bible were God’s penmen, not His pen. Look at the different writers. It is not the words of the Bible that are inspired, but the men that were inspired. Inspiration acts not on the man’s words or his expressions but on the man himself, who, under the influence of the Holy Ghost, is imbued with thoughts. But the words receive the impress of the individual mind. The divine mind is diffused. The divine mind and will is combined with the human mind and will; thus the utterances of the man are the word of God.-- Manuscript 24, 1886 (written in Europe in 1886). {1SM 21}

But even using the above idea how is the word of God defined? If the utterances of man are the word of God what does that mean?
 
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DrStupid_Ben

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I'll think a bit more on this. I am going to be writting an essay on the nature of scripture in the rest of this semester for my systematic theology class, so i will probably be full of ideas in a few weeks. My essay will probably go along the lines of examining the divine-human understanding of scripture and the divine-human understanding of Christ. Not sure what my conclusions will be at this stage, but I only have 2500 words to use. (not much to fully explore such a big subject)
 
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RC_NewProtestants

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Yes I think that is too simply that text:
Deut 8:1-5 NIV Be careful to follow every command I am giving you today, so that you may live and increase and may enter and possess the land that the LORD promised on oath to your forefathers. 2 Remember how the LORD your God led you all the way in the desert these forty years, to humble you and to test you in order to know what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commands. 3 He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your fathers had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD. 4 Your clothes did not wear out and your feet did not swell during these forty years. 5 Know then in your heart that as a man disciplines his son, so the LORD your God disciplines you.

The context seems to be that these people are a special project of God and God was going to take care of them. It would seem that when Jesus answered the devil with those words He was referring to the need in life for more then just the physical necessities of food.

The other way to look at that text is that it is a reference to the requirement of keeping all the commands that God had given the nation of Israel. E.g. return to stoning sabbath breakers and adulterers etc. That is why this becomes such an important question
 
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Sophia7

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Here are a few more verses to consider:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
 
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RC_NewProtestants

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Surely you jest. If the Bible is not the word of God, what is?
That is what I am asking, a simple definition, if something is not X then what is it is a meaningless definition. If I added to that Sophia's Bible verses then Jesus Christ is the Word of God and the Word of God is the Bible so that Jesus Christ is the Bible. Or vice versa, The Bible is Jesus Christ.

Have we become so trite that we use terms and don't even know what they mean?
 
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Sophia7

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We should recognise a difference between the anglo "word" and the greek "logos"
Logos has much more depth than just spoken or written word

Obviously. Jesus isn't a spoken or written word.

And does the English term "Word of God" also have more depth than simply referring to the Bible? I would say so, and I think that's part of what this thread was meant to address.
 
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thecountrydoc

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Hello once again RC_N.P.,

You complained, in another thread, that I had not responded to this thread. I must tell you that I'm too old to engage in debate just for the sake of arguing. In the rather short time that I have been posting in this forum, it has become quite clear that you seem to enjoy "biblical ping-pong." Personally I see no point to it.

Lets take a fresh look at your thread starter:


What is the definition of the word of God?
"As the new Quarter brings the lesson study on the authority of the Bible and uses the term "word of God" many times, what does that term mean to you?

The obvious first answer will be that word of God refers to messages of God delivered to someone, but how does that work with the rest of the Bible which contains lists of genealogies and historical type information about Israel and other nations. Are those things the word of God also? Where does the writer fit into all this? For instance the Psalmist talks about dashing the heads of babies into rocks, is that the word of God? What do we do with the thus saith the Lord statements, are they instructions that must be obeyed for all followers of God?

So how do you define "word of God"?

From your very first sentence it is quite clear that you are not looking for information or even someone elses opnions. I say this because you couch your questions with the fact that you know the vast majority of those to whom you have directed your questions to are going to spend the rest of this quarter studying this subject. Next you predetermin what the first answer will be. While the answer you offered may very well be your "first answer," you certainly have no idea what someone elses answer may be.

From this opening it would seem that there are two possible reasons for your starting this thread at this time.

(1) You want to argue.
(2) You want to derail the systematic study of the Sabbath School lessons for this quarter.

Could I answer your questions? Absolutely! Do I think you would accept the answers (even if they are
incontrovertable)? No! It might be best to apostrophize this topic until all who have/may read this thread have a chance to study the this quarters Sabbath School lesons.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc
 
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DrStupid_Ben

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Obviously. Jesus isn't a spoken or written word.

And does the English term "Word of God" also have more depth than simply referring to the Bible? I would say so, and I think that's part of what this thread was meant to address.
Well yes, obviously. See post #11


By the way Sophia, the number of view your profile had when I posted this was 1844! lol
 
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RC_NewProtestants

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You complained, in another thread, that I had not responded to this thread. I must tell you that I'm too old to engage in debate just for the sake of arguing. In the rather short time that I have been posting in this forum, it has become quite clear that you seem to enjoy "biblical ping-pong." Personally I see no point to it.

I started the thread a couple weeks ago after I was scheduled to fill in for last weeks Sabbath school teacher. Of course I don't teach a class I facilitate a discussion. So the week before I asked the class in preparation from next weeks class to be able to give me a definition for the word of God. In my blog I pointed out that the lesson quarterly uses the term a lot but does not define their meaning.
http://cafesda.blogspot.com

As it turned out their definition at the beginning of class was far different from their definition at the end of the class, and all the people there I would class as Traditional SDA's. The beginning definition was that we are to follow the word of God which is the Bible no matter what our culture or laws of our nations say. They quickly changed their view when reminded what God had told Israel to do, my example was:
EX 31:12 Then the LORD said to Moses, 13 "Say to the Israelites, 'You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. [a] 14 " 'Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it must be put to death; whoever does any work on that day must be cut off from his people. 15 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.

The quickly realized that they do not go around following the word of God or they would be killing all kinds of people. At the beginning the word of God was to be unquestioningly obeyed at the end the word of God was a tool for us to use.

From your very first sentence it is quite clear that you are not looking for information or even someone elses opnions. I say this because you couch your questions with the fact that you know the vast majority of those to whom you have directed your questions to are going to spend the rest of this quarter studying this subject. Next you predetermin what the first answer will be. While the answer you offered may very well be your "first answer," you certainly have no idea what someone elses answer may be.

What you think is clear is of no real importance unless you can logically back it up. I certainly gave the opportunity for anyone to say what they wanted so how can it be that addressing a question to the subject of the Sabbath School lesson study guide most frequent use of terms is somehow showing that I have no interest in the opinions of others? From that utterly incomprehensible statement you go to complaining about the 1 obvious meaning of the word of God. Clearly in the majority of Bible uses of the word of God or word of the Lord it is a reference to a message from God. I would be amazed if when asked about what the word of God is anyone would exclude from an answer that it is a message from God. Yet countrydoc has a problem with with stating the obvious.
(1) You want to argue.
(2) You want to derail the systematic study of the Sabbath School lessons for this quarter.

systematic study requires that first you define your terms. So rather then derail systematic study I want people to actually systematically study rather then follow the trite lesson study guide which interesting was not written by a Bible scholar or expert in Christian or Jewish History which the church has quite a few of, but an General Conference employee of no particular specialty.
 
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Sophia7

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Well yes, obviously. See post #11


By the way Sophia, the number of view your profile had when I posted this was 1844! lol

:D

I looked up some other texts that in Greek use the term logos and are translated word in English. I think it's pretty clear from them that the word of God goes way beyond the Bible:
MK 7:9 And he said to them: "You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! 10 For Moses said, `Honor your father and your mother,' and, `Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.' 11 But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: `Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban' (that is, a gift devoted to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. 13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that."
___________________________________

LK 5:1 One day as Jesus was standing by the Lake of Gennesaret, with the people crowding around him and listening to the word of God, 2 he saw at the water's edge two boats, left there by the fishermen, who were washing their nets. 3 He got into one of the boats, the one belonging to Simon, and asked him to put out a little from shore. Then he sat down and taught the people from the boat.
___________________________________

LK 8:11 "This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.
___________________________________

LK 8:19 Now Jesus' mother and brothers came to see him, but they were not able to get near him because of the crowd. 20 Someone told him, "Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to see you."

LK 8:21 He replied, "My mother and brothers are those who hear God's word and put it into practice."
___________________________________

JN 10:34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, `I have said you are gods' ? 35 If he called them `gods,' to whom the word of God came--and the Scripture cannot be broken-- 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, `I am God's Son'? 37 Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38 But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.
___________________________________

AC 4:31 After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.
___________________________________

AC 6:7 So the word of God spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem increased rapidly, and a large number of priests became obedient to the faith.
___________________________________

AC 11:1 The apostles and the brothers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God.
___________________________________

AC 12:24 But the word of God continued to increase and spread.
___________________________________

2CO 4:1 Therefore, since through God's mercy we have this ministry, we do not lose heart. 2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For we do not preach ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves as your servants for Jesus' sake. 6 For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ.
___________________________________

1TH 2:13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is at work in you who believe.
___________________________________

1TI 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.
___________________________________

HEB 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13 Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
___________________________________

1PE 1:23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,

"All men are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,

1PE 1:25 but the word [different Greek word—rhema] of the Lord stands forever."

And this is the word [also rhema] that was preached to you.
___________________________________

2PE 3:3 First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, "Where is this `coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
___________________________________

REV 1:1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw--that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.
___________________________________

[FONT=&quot]REV 19:11[FONT=&quot] I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]12[/FONT][FONT=&quot] His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]13[/FONT][FONT=&quot] He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.[/FONT][/FONT]
 
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Jimlarmore

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Isn't there a distinction between the logos word of God and the Ramah word of God? Clearly ,the anthology we call the Bible contains the Ramah word of God. Things like RC gave to show a questionable approach to literalness like killing everyone who violates the Sabbath is disgenuous to say the least.

God was speaking directly thru Moses to a people who had just came thru the red sea on dry ground and actually heard the voice of God spoken from the cloud on Mt. Sinai as He gave them the ten commandments. Folks who are previledged and greatly blessed as the children of Israel were are also held to an exacting standard as well. Would God hold those today that have no idea about the sanctity of the Sabbath to that high of a standard? Obviously not.

study the Bible my friends and let the Holy Spirit direct your thoughts and conclusions.

God Bless
Jim Larmore
 
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Sophia7

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Isn't there a distinction between the logos word of God and the Ramah word of God? Clearly ,the anthology we call the Bible contains the Ramah word of God. Things like RC gave to show a questionable approach to literalness like killing everyone who violates the Sabbath is disgenuous to say the least.

God was speaking directly thru Moses to a people who had just came thru the red sea on dry ground and actually heard the voice of God spoken from the cloud on Mt. Sinai as He gave them the ten commandments. Folks who are previledged and greatly blessed as the children of Israel were are also held to an exacting standard as well. Would God hold those today that have no idea about the sanctity of the Sabbath to that high of a standard? Obviously not.

study the Bible my friends and let the Holy Spirit direct your thoughts and conclusions.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

The texts that I quoted above all use the word logos in Greek. (There are more; I didn't quote every instance.) A couple of the texts, as noted above, also include the Greek term rhema, also translated word in English versions of the Bible. Here are the Strong's definitions:
G3056
λόγος
logos
log'-os
From G3004; something said (including the thought); by implication a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension a computation; specifically (with the article in John) the Divine Expression (that is, Christ): - account, cause, communication, X concerning, doctrine, fame, X have to do, intent, matter, mouth, preaching, question, reason, + reckon, remove, say (-ing), shew, X speaker, speech, talk, thing, + none of these things move me, tidings, treatise, utterance, word, work.
_____________________________________________________

G4487
ῥῆμα
rhēma
hray'-mah
From G4483; an utterance (individually, collectively or specifically); by implication a matter or topic (especially of narration, command or dispute); with a negative naught whatever: - + evil, + nothing, saying, word.​
 
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