What is the Baptist view on predestination?

I should probably know seeing as I'm Baptist but I guess no one's really talked about it to me before and I can't find it on the web, so I thought this would be a good place to ask.

Thanks!
NEF2BA

The Baptist view of predestination is correctly understood from understanding God's nature in terms of: God knows everything, including you before the foundation of the world and He is in control.

The normal discussion of predestination usually turns to mans nature in terms of free will (a discussion that caused a split in Baptists). But most Baptist I know leave the discussion with the nature of God which I believe is correct.
It's a huge subject. The short answer is: If God knew me, if God knows me, If God keeps me, then His nature is revealed in the process and He gets the credit, the honor and the glory. If my will, my choices, my nature are important then I get the credit, the honor and the glory. Which of these seems right to you?

http://www.doctrine.net/freedomofthewill.htm

This really helped me put my thoughts in order concerning God. Very good article by RC Sproul.

As Baptists, we believe in the infallibility and final authority of God's written Word - the Bible.

With that in mind, here are a few Bible passages to mull over as it relates to this discussion...

Romans 8:28-30
"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."

Ephesians 1:9-14
"And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ. In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory."

Romans 10:13-17
"For 'whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.' How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: 'How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace, Who bring glad tidings of good things!' But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, 'LORD, who has believed our report?' So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

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God is sovereign, man is responsible. God's sovereignty does not dismiss man's responsibility. Man's responsibility does not diminish God's sovereignty.

See also: Psalm 139 and Proverbs 16.


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rural_preacher said:

God is sovereign, man is responsible. God's sovereignty does not dismiss man's responsibility. Man's responsibility does not diminish God's sovereignty.



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Amen...

Excellent points.

NotEnoughFaith2BeAtheist said:

I should probably know seeing as I'm Baptist but I guess no one's really talked about it to me before and I can't find it on the web, so I thought this would be a good place to ask.

Thanks!
NEF2BA

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There is a lot of controversy on this issue among Baptists (even on this board). My church is Calvinist, so we believe that God has predestined a people for faith in Christ before the creation of the world.

arunma said:

There is a lot of controversy on this issue among Baptists (even on this board). My church is Calvinist, so we believe that God has predestined a people for faith in Christ before the creation of the world.

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I don't know if it's truly a matter of predestining anyone concerning salvation as much as the context of "predestination" seems to be towards folks who are already in Christ and being molded to a Christ-like manner.

Now I do believe God foreordained and had foreknowledge of things that would come to pass accomplishing His will thru the hearts of men. But I don't believe God had a list of condemned and saved folks. There's too much support to God desiring all to come to saving faith. If God had this list before creation, then that means God created evil, which contradicts the bible saying in Him is no sin or evil. It would also mean God caused Satan to disobey and man ultimately to fall. At the same time, this type of thinking won't take away from God's Sovereignty. Just because He knows it will happen doesn't mean He caused it.

Check this out: http://www.doctrine.net/freedomofthewill.htm

This is really a great article by RC Sproul. I'm not trying to start anything. But folks like to give me stuff to chew on, which I appreciate. So I thought I'd give some other folks something to chew on. This isn't about me being right, but just something to think about.

~ Some believe it, some dont believe it. There is scripture that can back up both view points. Actually, I think both view points are wrong for a lot of reasons but that is another issue.
~ Baptists cannot all be put into one lump group on what they believe. Some are full gospel, some believe cessationism, some believe dispensationalism, some are calvinist, some are arminian etc.
~ Asking what a baptist believes is kind of like asking what people in New York City like to eat. Too many variables to create a broad brush stroke.
~ It is best to ask what the Holy Spirit teaches about what the Bible says.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)

ghs1994 said:

I don't know if it's truly a matter of predestining anyone concerning salvation as much as the context of "predestination" seems to be towards folks who are already in Christ and being molded to a Christ-like manner.

Now I do believe God foreordained and had foreknowledge of things that would come to pass accomplishing His will thru the hearts of men. But I don't believe God had a list of condemned and saved folks. There's too much support to God desiring all to come to saving faith. If God had this list before creation, then that means God created evil, which contradicts the bible saying in Him is no sin or evil. It would also mean God caused Satan to disobey and man ultimately to fall. At the same time, this type of thinking won't take away from God's Sovereignty. Just because He knows it will happen doesn't mean He caused it.

Check this out: http://www.doctrine.net/freedomofthewill.htm

This is really a great article by RC Sproul. I'm not trying to start anything. But folks like to give me stuff to chew on, which I appreciate. So I thought I'd give some other folks something to chew on. This isn't about me being right, but just something to think about.

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You are correct; the issue is more complicated than my last post would lead someone to believe. The Bible makes mention of predestination, so all Christians are more or less required to believe in it. Even Roman Catholics believe in predestination. The controversy is with the way in which we understand predestination, and you've already explained that.

There is a real good possibility that you will get almost as many different answers to this question as there are different kinds of Baptists on this Forum. Baptist doctrine in this area is in no way as concrete and agreed upon as other areas of theology.

NotEnoughFaith2BeAtheist said:

I should probably know seeing as I'm Baptist but I guess no one's really talked about it to me before and I can't find it on the web, so I thought this would be a good place to ask.

Thanks!
NEF2BA

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As far as I know Baptist churches don't believe in predestination.....I know that I don't.

NotEnoughFaith2BeAtheist said:

I should probably know seeing as I'm Baptist but I guess no one's really talked about it to me before and I can't find it on the web, so I thought this would be a good place to ask.

Thanks!
NEF2BA

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Good Day, NEF2BA

The London Baptist confession:

Chapter 3: Of God's Decree

1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )


2._____ Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.
( Acts 15:18; Romans 9:11, 13, 16, 18 )

3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.
( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )

4.______These angels and men thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.
( 2 Timothy 2:19; John 13:18 )

5._____ Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of his mere free grace and love, without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving him thereunto.
( Ephesians 1:4, 9, 11; Romans 8:30; 2 Timothy 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Romans 9:13, 16; Ephesians 2:5, 12 )

6._____ As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so he hath, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, foreordained all the means thereunto; wherefore they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ, are effectually called unto faith in Christ, by his Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified, and kept by his power through faith unto salvation; neither are any other redeemed by Christ, or effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.
( 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 5:9, 10; Romans 8:30; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:5; John 10:26; John 17:9; John 6:64 ) 7._____ The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending the will of God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election; so shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God, and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.
( 1 Thessalonians 1:4, 5; 2 Peter 1:10; Ephesians 1:6; Romans 11:33; Romans 11:5, 6, 20; Luke 10:20 )

Read Spurgeon on the issue:

http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/1043.htm

Peace to u,

Bill

thepianist said:

As far as I know Baptist churches don't believe in predestination.....I know that I don't.

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I thought so my friend
Because I know that our church doesn't!!

thepianist said:

As far as I know Baptist churches don't believe in predestination.....I know that I don't.

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Good Day, Thepianist

If you do not belive in predestination what do you do with:

Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Eph 1:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Eph 1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;

Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Eph 1:15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

Peace to u,

Bill