• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Yahuseph

Newbie
Jan 9, 2013
12
0
✟15,122.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
dfw69, that's basically correct. I was just pounding on unscriptural teachings. Should have made that my headline.

What does it really mean when a verse says this or that? You should correctly divide every word. Peter said to the Lord a thousand years is as one day. What does that mean? Though it is true that to an unchanging Creator time has no effect on him, and a thousand years is as one day, and vice versa. Although that is true, it isn't what the context is getting at. According to the context it is concerning the day of judgment, and the end of the age, "the day of the age", etc...


Bearing that in mind, we can look at other verses. Many initially believe that Jesus is God. So I just want you to think. Even if that might be true, can you just rip any verse out randomly to support that? Even though our Creator is unchanging, we cannot just take the verse in Peter to make our point, because that is not the point it is making. There is however abundant other verses in its proper context that can be used.

A mormon for instance would show you the Book of Jeremiah, where it says "before I formed you in the womb, I knew you". According to their teaching, people are created spirits before they were even born. Now, even if that is true (which is totally unscriptural by the way), even if true, that's not what is being communicated here. It means that Jeremiah's Creator is reminding him that He is the all-knowing God. I told this to a Mormon friend, and he felt silent. Infact I went thru every verse which they quote from the Bible in its proper context. He looked like he agreed, however he is afraid of giving up his false believes.

Now, for another example. JW's believes that Jesus is the arch angel Michael. Let's say that's true (its not), but for argument sake. What verses proof that? "For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the arch angel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first." It simply says the Lord will come down with a shout, with the voice (sound) of a chief messenger. Michael isn't even mentioned. That verse simply does not say that "Jesus is Michael". Infact he came higher than the messengers in heaven, and became lower, in the form of a human. And were changed, as a human would be changed.

All the above considered. Whether Jesus is God or not, you should not just rip out anything to proof it. Vague verses and such. "the first and the last" as "God almighty" is simply twisting whatever the context is trying to say. This is forcing your believe into the scriptures. "1000 years as one day" does not say that our Creator is all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful. Even though that is true,it is not what the context is saying.

So "Jesus is God". "I and my Father are one". Does this verse say he is God? Well according to the whole picture painted in this account, the Father is a witness, and his son. The son witness of his Father, and the Father in thru him thru spirit. Now note, there are 2 witnesses, not three, the spirit is not a witness (person). It is the Father that witnesses in his son thru His own spirit, giving us 2 witnesses. The Father magnifies his son, that his son in turn can magnify his Father. These things are expounded over and over. They are one in witness. Now does one in witness means "I and my Father are one"? According to the context it makes better sense, than completely twisting that short line into a "trinity". Just to show you that it can mean something else. Between "one in witness" and "trinity", you can obviously see "trinity", or "Jesus is God" is a stretch of the imagination, way beyond the borders of the immediate and broader context. In the bible Jesus says that he abides in the love of the Father and the Father abides in him (in love and spirit) therefore he is in the Father and the Father in him. That we might believe they ARE ONE. Like a family abiding in the love of one another, being one. To expand even further what that verse really means, Jesus prays that we know that he is in the Father and the Father in him, and that they are one, so that we may believe, that the Father is the only true God and that Jesus was sent by him. So that we also can become ONE WITH THEM. So he and the Father is one, and we can become one with them. Obviously the "trinity" is rule out. The trinity does not even belong within miles of the words "I and my Father are one".

In one of the Psalms that was quoted in Hebrews, it says the son is god (God). Now before inserting "the trinity" into the verse, take time to think what this is saying. And remember even if something is true, it doesn't mean all vague sounding verses should be used to "proof" something. The word "god (mighty one)" is used for more than just the almight Creator. God is "mighty one", it can be applied to anyone. In the Greek and Hebrew there are no upper and lower case, only one case, there is no God and god. It is just GOD. So here we can look at the context. Imagine all the words in english are one case. We should easily see from the context who is God and who is god. The adversary (satan) is "GOD". What is the context? He is "GOD" with respect to time, "god of the age". Obviously not the God. He is simply god, of this present evil age. Jesus is likewise "GOD", yet "unto the age of the age" (Heb. 1:8). He is god, with respect to time. It simply does not say almighty God. Isaiah says he is the "father of the age", which is wrongly translated "everlasting father". If you want to do that, then you should also translate that satan is the "everlasting god" in 2 Corinthians. Also in the same verse of Isaiah, the son is called the mighty god, not almighty, and Titus confirms. If you conclude that Jesus is the God in Heb. 1:8, then by that same logic you should conclude that satan is also the God, which you would call heresy. Proper context: Jesus 〓 god/father of the age, and has an age-lasting kingdom. Afterwards shall give the kingdom unto the Father, the King of the ages.
 
Upvote 0

dfw69

Pre-Tribulation Pre- False Messianic Age
Nov 16, 2011
8,273
828
Dallas/Ft Worth
✟86,373.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
When I read my bible I see a god talking to John Jesus is describe as alpha and omega the beginning and the end the first and the last John sees him hair white eyes as flame of fire he shines as the sun and when he speaks the sound of mighty waters .....I see a god who was with god in the beginning and created all things with god Jesus is a god no doubt
 
Upvote 0