what is reasonable to expect from my 4.5 yr old in Mass?

[New Creation]

There's a woman I know from the local playgroup who is a Catholic and she and I have had many conversations about our faith. Well, imagine my joy when I saw her at Mass tonight! (It is a satellite church that we only go to when we can't make Mass at our regular church an hour away so it is a sparesly populated Mass with no children)

She has a 3.5 year old and spent the entire Mass but for Eucharist in the cry room. She was very upset at the end of it. I tried to reassure her that we moms think our kids are louder than anyone else does and that for the most part, people are very forgiving about the noises kids make.

Now that's not all of it really. I've got a 4.5 year old and I'm really not sure what exactly is reasonable to expect of her at Mass. My husband and I have different ideas about this. How quiet is quiet when you ask them to sit quietly? I don't let her draw anymore or bring toys or anything. Anyway, I'm not going to go into detail, but what do you expect of your young children at Mass?

 

[epiclesis]

Well, I'm not there yet, as my little guy is 6 months.

But I would expect the same of them in Church as I would anywhere else and they needed to follow instructions. Reminders and warnings frequently. It depends on the 4 year old, really. Some of them are more advanced than others.

Who wants to be a little one and all you can see is wooden pews and people's heads, AND get told to be quiet and sit quietly? They likely don't know much of what is going on, and especially can't see.

 

[ebia]

Mine can manage to sit quietly for a whole, maybe, 5 mins on a good day.

 

[New Creation]

Seriously folks, I really need some feedback here! Please!

 

[ebia]

Seriously folks, I really need some feedback here! Please!

Maybe there aren't many other people posting who have or recently had 4 1/2 year old children in church.

To some extent what you should expect will depend on the church environment. How involved can the child be; are there other children and what are they doing;... There's no chance of mine sitting quietly while there are a dozen older kids racing around...

And to some extent on the rest of the child's life. Is sitting quietly part of the rest of their existence? If not (which is generally the case in this era), then expecting them to sit quietly for an hour on Sunday morning while something incomprehensible goes on is frankly absurd if they are not involved in something.

 

[CruciFixed]

Mine is only 3 and he was quite disruptive after about 15 minutes in and we don't have a cry room so I took him by the exit and sat close enough to hear.

I wouldn't be upset so much if he wouldn't have kept moving from one end of the pew to the next, laughing and talking.

I have no idea what to expect of a 4 year old. At 5 I was in church and sat still for the most part but it was still hard.

How long have you been taking your LO to mass?

 

[Assisi]

I'm not really sure what the specifics of your question are. I think a 4.5yo should not be spending time in a crying room (I don't think any child should be in there much, except for a baby who needs calming). But I don't think it's reasonable to ask a child to sit quietly for a full hour at that age. I don't have a 4yo atm, but I expect participation from my children at Mass, and I expect them to whisper rather than talk aloud.

Our rules are:
*No food at Mass
*No leaving the pew
*No climbing on the furniture (this means pews are only for sitting, kneelers are only for kneeling and standing, and book shelves are only for books!)
*No loud talking - whispers only

We get our children a snack of something high in protein and low in sugar just before we leave the house, and we attend Mass at a time when no one should be tired. We get our children to spend their time running around outside in the hours leading up to Mass, and we always go out for something nice after Mass. This sets the boys up with a good chance to behave.

We don't take food, but we do allow comfort toys (teddy for my 1yo) and books about Mass and a Mass worksheet. I try to hold and cuddle my children as much as possible during Mass. We allow them to do their own thing during the readings and homily, and then I expect them to be with me and praying at their level once the liturgy of the Eucharist begins. We pray the prayers and sing the parts of the Mass at home as a part of our day and our family prayer, so the children know and want to participate in these things at Mass.

The children are generally pretty good at Mass, *so far* this is working for us. But everyone has a bad day sometimes It is tricky, because I want my children to learn how to behave respectfully and how to participate in (not just exist through) Mass. I don't want them to distract or disturb others, but I also want them to experience Mass as a time of love, and cuddles, and holiness not a time of getting into trouble and sitting quietly being bored. Cuddles are a good good thing.

One full hour is a looong time. A 4yo needs help from parents to find a suitable way to participate.

 

[Jack544]

^ I think she knows what helps.

When I was little some bubblegum helped keep me quiet. But your child is an individual, so I dunno if it would help or make it worse.

 

[JoabAnias]

Seriously folks, I really need some feedback here! Please!

Patience....

with the kid.

Everyone is different.

Some may be impossible.

Make arrangements accordingly.

 

[CruciFixed]

My 3 year old is new to the mass. I am trying to teach him but he grabs the kneeler, pulls it down stands on it, kneels on it, sits on it. Lays across the pew. I cuddle him and hold him still for a bit then he squirms out or away. He slaps the song list paper I am holding and he wiggles in his seat. When its time to sing he's the only one making a fuss.

Sometimes I wonder if leaving him at home is better.
He's so frustrating when we're there. I am going to try the suggestion of letting him run around outside and play before the mass.

 

[epiclesis]

My 3 year old is new to the mass. I am trying to teach him but he grabs the kneeler, pulls it down stands on it, kneels on it, sits on it. Lays across the pew. I cuddle him and hold him still for a bit then he squirms out or away. He slaps the song list paper I am holding and he wiggles in his seat. When its time to sing he's the only one making a fuss.

Sometimes I wonder if leaving him at home is better.
He's so frustrating when we're there. I am going to try the suggestion of letting him run around outside and play before the mass.

He's not going to learn how to behave and have a chance to practice it if he's left at home.

 

[New Creation]

I'm not really sure what the specifics of your question are. I think a 4.5yo should not be spending time in a crying room (I don't think any child should be in there much, except for a baby who needs calming). But I don't think it's reasonable to ask a child to sit quietly for a full hour at that age. I don't have a 4yo atm, but I expect participation from my children at Mass, and I expect them to whisper rather than talk aloud.

Our rules are:
*No food at Mass
*No leaving the pew
*No climbing on the furniture (this means pews are only for sitting, kneelers are only for kneeling and standing, and book shelves are only for books!)
*No loud talking - whispers only

We get our children a snack of something high in protein and low in sugar just before we leave the house, and we attend Mass at a time when no one should be tired. We get our children to spend their time running around outside in the hours leading up to Mass, and we always go out for something nice after Mass. This sets the boys up with a good chance to behave.

We don't take food, but we do allow comfort toys (teddy for my 1yo) and books about Mass and a Mass worksheet. I try to hold and cuddle my children as much as possible during Mass. We allow them to do their own thing during the readings and homily, and then I expect them to be with me and praying at their level once the liturgy of the Eucharist begins. We pray the prayers and sing the parts of the Mass at home as a part of our day and our family prayer, so the children know and want to participate in these things at Mass.

The children are generally pretty good at Mass, *so far* this is working for us. But everyone has a bad day sometimes It is tricky, because I want my children to learn how to behave respectfully and how to participate in (not just exist through) Mass. I don't want them to distract or disturb others, but I also want them to experience Mass as a time of love, and cuddles, and holiness not a time of getting into trouble and sitting quietly being bored. Cuddles are a good good thing.

One full hour is a looong time. A 4yo needs help from parents to find a suitable way to participate.

Thanks Assissi, this is kind of what I'm looking for.

My little one's been going to Mass since we came to the Catholic Church 3 years ago so she's used to it. It's not a new thing. It was VERY hard for the first year or so.

I feel the same way, I want Mass to be a time that she knows and remembers as one of love, not this terrible fear of screwing up. I've got the future in mind here.

We have a few problems because we live in a rural area. We have to drive for a full hour before we even GET to church and she doesn't really get a chance to get the wiggles out. Perhaps we should get there a bit earlier to give her a chance to run outside. Still- not exactly practical for her to be running around in rain and mud or on the parking lot.

My husband and I have different expectations. He thinks that there should be ABSOLUTELY no talking during Mass. I don't mind when my little girl asks questions so long as she is quiet and if it's about Mass or the readings or something to do with Church. She knows the entire liturgy, she can say and sing all the prayers and she does, but not every week.

I have let her bring her favourite comfort doll in the past but she wants to end up playing with it and making noise. I try to remember to bring books about the Mass as well but don't always remember.

I know an hour is a long time. I would never even bring her to another event where I expected her to be quiet for an hour. It's ridiculous basically.

We have been offering rewards to her like '5 good masses in a row and you get to pick a family outing'. She's only done it once though. I know, it's a lot to ask for. I'm conflicted myself.

 

[Assisi]

Wow - that's a long hike to get to Mass! She is doing really well to sit in the car, then go to Mass.

I disagree with your husband about the absolute quiet. Noisy play (my boys like to wrestle!) is not okay, but whispering is fine. Moving up and down along the pew is (in my opinion) also fine. It's great for her to have some participation in the Mass, but at her age it will look different to adult participation and needs to be broken up by other things. And while I think my children do quite well, I am reminding them of the rules every week, they don't just sit there and 'behave' lol.

A busy child is a well behaved child. You may have thought of a lot of this already, and some of it may not be right for your family. But...Some other thoughts for a 4yo are:


*get a missal which she is allowed to use and together with her just before Mass (maybe in the car) put the coloured markers where they need to go for the day's Mass. Then ask her to be in charge of the missal while you're there. It's her (very important) job to open the missal up to the current part of the Mass. At first you will be showing her, but after a while she will know what to do and in the process will have learned a bit about the structure of the Mass. Show her the pictures and allow her to look at them during Mass.
*if your parish doesn't have Mass worksheets, look online to print one out. Some mothers have posted different sheets for different ages, and some are specific for the Mass. Working on a drawing of the day's reading is participation in my opinion.
*Get a place she can see what's going on and talk to her during Mass. And quiz her! My son likes to answer questions like 'what colour is Father wearing today? - What does that colour mean?' and 'tell me about the red light, what does it mean?'. Sometimes we get some really funny answers though!
*give her something to look forward to after every Mass. I believe children will be more patient when they know that it's not forever and something fun is coming.

You are right, the noise our children make is much louder to us than it is to others. You're all getting grace just by being there, and ALL children go through good patches and bad patches with this sort of thing.

 

[JoabAnias]

My youngest son was so hyper that his teachers wanted to put him on Ritalin. There was no getting him still. He would run and run. He couldn't even be held. He would scoot right out of your hands. Every Mass was an exercise in catch me if you can. Needless to say nothing ever worked and I spent most of his first 6-7 years in a cry room and often was even unable to stay the duration there. I would always try to start out in the pew first, and progress to the cry room and by the time communion was over, was ecstatic to get out. Believe it or not, in the line to communion was the only time he wouldn't bolt on me. You can only imagine what bed time was like. More than once I was tempted to slip him a Valerian root or some benedryl. I can commiserate and all I can tell you is to do your best to be patient and interpret his needs. Look at it as an opportunity from the Lord to grow for everyone and know that as they get toward 8 years old it gets better. Your almost there.

 

[CruciFixed]

I am going to try some of those ideas ith my son. He's not a terror but he moves back and forth in the pew, starts laughing, wiggles, sits on my lap (which is fine) but then holds me and rocks me with him. He is very strong. I try to hold myself still but he can move my body with his while on my lap so I guess its his strength.

Then I calm him down for a few minutes and he's back to grabbing the kneeler and slamming it down. Other people want to participate as well and I know he's a distraction when the other parishioners give me dirty looks.

 

[New Creation]

Thanks so much Assissi and everyone else for responding. I really appreciate the time you've taken and it has really given me something to think about. Great ideas and encouragement. God bless you all!!!!!

Hang in there brikkz!!!!