What is Original Sin?

StoryPort · Jan 29, 2007

What is Original Sin? Is this an outdated phrase used to make sinners feel guilty? Is it an absence of knowledge of our grand importance or a gaping hole of inner darkness? Is it positive evil? Is it a mere flaw that we can live with? Are we responsible for it, or is Eve the one who should be punished forever because of it? Is it an energy, a mist, a force? Or a personality disorder? Is it a character issue or is it the legacy of others handed down to us? Is it just a thought in our own heads or a physical issue? Is it found in the bible? Speak your mind.

armothe · Jan 29, 2007

The original sin is when Adam and Eve disobeyed God; making sin a realization to humankind.

MisterS · Jan 29, 2007

To my understanding, original sin is the sin with which every human being since Adam and Eve has been born. It is a corruption of our very nature, a disease which Adam and Eve contracted willfully in the garden and passed down to all their descendants. In and of itself, it makes us wholly unacceptable to God, and worse it leads to actual sin in our lives. Because of original sin every person by nature is separated from God and in need of a Savior. Thanks be to God who has saved us in Jesus.

JAS4Yeshua · Jan 29, 2007

When Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit, sin entered the world. The word "original" could also be translated as "first." The word "sin" could also be translated as "imperfection" or "missing the mark." God created Adam and Eve in perfection. When they ate of the forbidden fruit, they allowed sin into their lives, and sin is passed from father to child.

Genesis 2:16-17 - And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."

Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned.

Romans 5:19 - For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.

As an added note: I encourage the reading of Romans 5 (among other scriptures) to get a better view of the offense and the meaning of Christ's sacrifice for us.

white dove · Jan 29, 2007

StoryPort said:
What is Original Sin? Is this an outdated phrase used to make sinners feel guilty? Is it an absence of knowledge of our grand importance or a gaping hole of inner darkness? Is it positive evil? Is it a mere flaw that we can live with? Are we responsible for it, or is Eve the one who should be punished forever because of it? Is it an energy, a mist, a force? Or a personality disorder? Is it a character issue or is it the legacy of others handed down to us? Is it just a thought in our own heads or a physical issue? Is it found in the bible? Speak your mind.

To my understanding, it is the concept that we are born into a sinful nature because of what happened after the fall of Adam and Eve. Human beings are essentially fallen creatures in need of a Savior because of this ideology.

StoryPort · Jan 29, 2007

white dove said:
To my understanding, it is the concept that we are born into a sinful nature because of what happened after the fall of Adam and Eve. Human beings are essentially fallen creatures in need of a Savior because of this ideology.

It would seem to me that this would be the fruit of original sin. I believe that Original sin has three essential components. 1. That is the actual transgression of Eve including all that was ongoing in her heart and mind at the time she extended her hand toward the fruit. 2. The lie of Satan i.e. the serpent and all attending elements of that. 3. The positively evil consequences upon what it means to be the image of God, inherited in by all humanity, except Christ. 4. A pronoucement and transposing of the evil act of our distant first parents onto our lives.

white dove · Jan 29, 2007

StoryPort said:
2. The lie of Satan i.e. the serpent and all attending elements of that.

You #2 confuses me.

Don't be sassy, I'm serious!

Please expand upon your statement though.

StoryPort · Jan 29, 2007

white dove said:
You #2 confuses me.
Don't be sassy, I'm serious!
Please expand upon your statement though.

Satan is responsible for the origin of sin, being the Original sinner, he passed the lie he believed about Himself, namely, that He could be as God, knowing good and evil. That He could sit on heaven's throne and rule the world God made, as if He was its Maker and King. This lie, this presumption, this evil self love, this proud ambition, Satan whispered into the crown of God's creation, man. Satan is the original sinner.

white dove · Jan 29, 2007

Are you suggesting that Satan's deceit & treachery (temptation) are a part of the whole "sinning process?"

I think that's what you're saying, but...I'm not 100%.

white dove · Jan 29, 2007

Oops, my last post was preceeded by yours. I just read it now. Even so.....

StoryPort · Jan 29, 2007

...and this leads me to my most controversial position, namely, that the Original sin, and the evil of sin in the heart of man, does not truly exist.

JAS4Yeshua · Jan 29, 2007

While the term "original sin" doesn't appear in the Bible (at least as far as I'm aware of), there are plenty of Scripture references that sin has been "passed down" from Adam. This is why Jesus had to be born of the "seed of the woman" since the sin is passed from father to child. I mentioned a couple of references in Romans 5 in my earlier post. The bottom line, whether you call it "original sin" or not, is that we are all sinners in need of a Savior.

white dove · Jan 29, 2007

Controversial, shmontroversial (which actually may or may not be a naughty word )...

But, how so, Story? Your reasoning doesn't seem to jive.

JAS4Yeshua · Jan 29, 2007

Romans 5:8-21 NKJV

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]6 For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. 12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned-- 13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. 15 But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man's offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. 17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[/FONT]

StoryPort · Jan 29, 2007

Simply, that sin is a lie. The idea that we the creation can become the Creator, or fuse those two worlds together, namely God and man, it cannot be attained. (Except in the miraculous Jesus Christ) I am not a God, I can never be, no matter how many acts of evil I do, no matter how many acts of philanthropy. The Original sin was a imaginative wickedness, like its father the devil, the fruit of sin exists physically, namely the carrying out of Satan's lie in the heart. Evil in this life unfolds from darkened people, who have no Spirit of God in them, left to their own imaginative devices. Does this make sense so far?

white dove · Jan 29, 2007

StoryPort said:
Simply, that sin is a lie.

Sin is lie, thus non-existant....but, yet the fruits of sin are in existence?

StoryPort said:
The idea that we the creation can become the Creator, or fuse those two worlds together, namely God and man, it cannot be attained. (Except in the miraculous Jesus Christ) I am not a God, I can never be, no matter how many acts of evil I do, no matter how many acts of philanthropy. The Original sin was a imaginative wickedness, like its father the devil, the fruit of sin exists physically, namely the carrying out of Satan's lie in the heart. Evil in this life unfolds from darkened people, who have no Spirit of God in them, left to their own imaginative devices. Does this make sense so far?

On one hand, you say that sin is a lie (not real) because in order to admit to that, you'd have to admit that while one may accept Jesus Christ into their hearts, attaining the Holy Spirit as the Holy Counselor, admitting that human beings (even though they are saved) still get tempted and fall into sin now and again, that that cannot be because the Spirt of God is essentially infused within the person who accepted It.

I am not getting this at all, not even on a spiritual level. I'm going to go to bed and take this up again tomorrow.

JAS4Yeshua · Jan 30, 2007

You say Sin is a lie? So you are saying that God is a liar? You are saying that the Bible isn't true? You are saying that Jesus's death on the cross was for nothing?

Search for the word sin in the KJV and you find 389 references of that word. Definitely a lot of occurrences for it to be a lie.
http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineSt...=1&word=sin&section=0&version=kjv&language=en
Now, just in the Gospels alone, you find 15 references, most of which are stated by Jesus Himself.
http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=sin&section=8&version=kjv&new=1&oq=sin

No, sin is not a lie. If it were, Jesus would not have had to die on the cross. If not, we would not have a need for salvation. I think Paul sums it up best in 1 Corinthians 15:1-11 (NKJV)

[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]1 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.[/FONT]

armothe · Jan 30, 2007

JAS4Yeshua said:
This is why Jesus had to be born of the "seed of the woman" since the sin is passed from father to child.

Reference?

-A

JAS4Yeshua · Jan 30, 2007

Hmmm. To be honest, I can't remember where that's stated in the Bible, or if I simply heard that from another teacher/pastor. I apologize for the misrepresentation on that one point, but doesn't change the rest of my arguments which have references.

StoryPort · Jan 30, 2007

JAS4Yeshua said:
You say Sin is a lie? So you are saying that God is a liar? You are saying that the Bible isn't true? You are saying that Jesus's death on the cross was for nothing?...No, sin is not a lie. If it were, Jesus would not have had to die on the cross. If not, we would not have a need for salvation. I think Paul sums it up best in 1 Corinthians 15:1-11 (NKJV)

First, sin is a lie. Second, sin as delusion, a nonextant delusion, exists, but only as a lie. Thirdly, God is not a liar, but God is the only truthteller without delusion. Fourthly, the bible is all truth, even when it discusses the lie. Namely, that sin is the truth. Fifthly, Jesus died for sinners, and what are sinners? Those who believed the lie, that is all people. Lastly, JAS4Yeshua, extend your hand to me and show me a sin. Do not act it out. Show it to me in all its sparkling reality. Can you?

What is Original Sin?

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